Talking about moving to Spain and making mistakes in the same sentence is a bit of a contradiction in terms. In fact, if you have been dreaming of moving to Spain for a long time, then the only real mistake you can make is not doing so. What’s the worst thing that can happen after all? You take a huge cut in wages or risk a big career regression? You miss all your friends? None of these or similar perceived disasters are as terrible as staying where you are and always wondering "What if†you had actually made the move to Spain instead of staying at home and never giving yourself a chance to just do it. Remember, if it all goes wrong, you can go home and feel good about having had the guts to have tried it in the first place.
Anyway, let’s skip a step and imagine that you have done yourself an enormous favour and fulfilled your desire to move to Spain. What, in my 9 years experience in Spain, do I consider to be my single greatest mistake?
Up until a few years ago I was often under the impression that I might not get as far as I might in Spain as I am not Spanish. I thought that I would forever be doing jobs that were intrinsically linked with being English, i.e. English teaching and translation. Don’t get me wrong, these are both 100% worthy, legitimate professions to be extremely proud of, it’s just that it wasn’t what I had in mind, it wasn’t what I was aiming for when I first arrived in Spain. I got it into my head that I was foreign, and therefore I would have to do "being-English†related jobs that didn’t match up with my aspirations.
This attitude was a mistake, obviously. Firstly, if you move to Spain remember that you have every right to be here – we live in an internationalised world these days and if you want to live and work in Spain then don’t feel funny about it. I have friends in Spain who run businesses, and others who found great jobs here in multinational consulting and advertising companies – it’s entirely possible that they won’t move up the promotions ladder as quickly as their Spanish counterparts, but the two people I am thinking of (English and Italian) are both managers of small teams and in their early thirties. Not bad considering the global importance of the companies they work for.
So what are the antidotes to this feeling that you aren’t Spanish and therefore might not get as far career-wise as you could back home?
1. Learn Spanish Fast. If you want to compete on equal terms with your new compatriots, show them that you have made a hell of an effort to learn their language.
2. Believe in yourself! If you had the guts to get this far then you can certainly take your new life all the way through to your ideal finish line. You may not be Spanish, but you are a brave SOB and you’re as good as any of them!
3. If a career path in a Spanish company looks tough, think about the the privileged position that your foreignness puts you in – all the niches you can cover! – and think about starting a business in one of these areas.
4. Sorry to repeat myself, but Learn Spanish! Get 5 intercambios, be the most motivated language learner in your class (yes, go to classes twice a week as soon as you arrive and until you are reasonably fluent), and absorb everything you read and hear like a sponge.
Do fears like this stop you moving to Spain? Did you move here and experience the same?
Brandon
19 May 07 at 6:03 am
I have been planning (and am now taking great steps toward) moving to Spain for a while now. I have had some misgivings in the past, but ultimately I am of the mindset Ben describes above: nothing’s as terrible as wondering “What if?” This advice is very helpful, though, and anticipates some feelings I hadn’t thought of. For instance, it never occurred to me that I had as much right to be there as anyone. lol I think I’ve felt like I was crashing someone else’s party!
Theresa
19 May 07 at 11:33 am
When I moved to Spain I was scared to death, and I even had the advantage of being married to a Spaniard and knowing Spanish. Knowing Spanish is one of the most important things to do. Classes are good, but being with Spaniards is essential, reading comic books, “El Jueves”, etc. can help with slang – it helps to see it written down. Follow the gossipy talk shows, they may seem stupid, but you can learn a lot about what’s going on that you just won’t hear on the news. The main problem with work is not having your degree validated, I’ve been here 14 years and still haven’t managed it. They say what I studied in the U.S. is totally different from over here. Some people actually opt to do their studies over again in Spain.
ValenciaSon
19 May 07 at 2:12 pm
So Theresa, what did you study in the US?
Theresa
19 May 07 at 7:14 pm
I studied psychology, which, even if I were to get my degree validated over here, is pretty worthless. It seems lots of people here studied that and now there are just too many psychologists. On top of that I specialized in speech perception, which is more experimental than practical. Had I been able to look into the future, I would have studied computer science, there’s lots of work available for programmers.
Steve
19 May 07 at 7:46 pm
What most of us need is someone big and strong to come to our homes and physically kick us up the a** to make the move. Dreaming is what we all do best but being scared of regret is what we all do most!
Madrid Teacher
20 May 07 at 12:16 am
Moving to Spain is a brave thing to do, so you really need the support of friends and family. Trying to develop a career here is hard and wages and conditions are very very different. I found that if you come with the expectations that it will be like home then it probably will not work out totally successfully. Athough I have found that many people have come here to escape the career pressures at home and to try and gain a more laid back easier lifestyle. Its always worth trying, I intended to stay for two years at the most and am now on my sixth year. Being able to speak spanish makes things ten times easier
nuria
21 May 07 at 12:54 pm
Just do it I say. I’m a spanish citizen but lived in the United States for over 25 years and two years ago my American husband & I along with our two young children decided to move back to Spain. All our friends and family thought we were nuts but we think it was the best move we ever made. Our children love the spanish lifestyle and although my husband is still having some problems with the language, for now this is our home and we are enjoying every second of this adventure. I encourage anyone who is thinking about making the move to do it.. afterall, you really have nothing to lose and a lot to win once you are here.
David
21 May 07 at 4:28 pm
Thanks for the great advice. One thing I would be very interested in hearing about (maybe it could be another post or something) would be how to get a work permit/residency etc in Spain? What are the requirements and how hard is it to get residency status and legal permission to work.
Ben
21 May 07 at 7:52 pm
Hi David, it would be great if you could ask the same question in the ‘moving to Spain’ section in the forum saying if you are from the US, Europe or elsewhere, I’m sure you’ll get loads of advice!
Madrid teacher, you are right, it is very hard, there is no doubt, and you do need all the support you can get. The point is to belive that anything is possible, even though you are in Spain.
Martin
22 May 07 at 4:01 pm
Hi, firstly, great pod cast. I really enjoy Notes from Spain and have been listening for a long time now. Although I have listened for a long time I have never made a comment or posted on the forum… till now
This post has made me to decide to say something because it’s so close to my heart. I would LOVE to move to Spain. I really, really, love Spain with a passion and to be honest don’t like it here in the UK much at all.
Maybe for some people what you say is true and you have nothing to lose and only fear itself to fear. For myself, this isn’t true.
What’s the worst that could happen? I become homeless with no job. If I left my job and went to Spain I would come back with no home to live in and no job. I wouldn’t be able to sign on for unemployment benefit because I left my job I made myself unemployed and so not eligible. So I would be without home or income.
I wish, I wish, I wish I could move to Spain. Sometimes it’s not as easy as all that and there are higher stakes to play for
If anybody has the answers then… please let me know because my dream would be to lilve in Spain…
Gabriella Opaz
22 May 07 at 9:38 pm
Honestly Dave, all it takes is you making a decision. Just do it. We can justify our way out of anything, but unless you make up your mind to do something, I honestly don’t believe it will every get done. My husband and I moved to Spain with nothing, and I do mean nothing, other than a plane ticket and a room we found last minute. We didn’t know a lick of Spanish, didn’t have jobs and knew zero about this country other than some of the wines it produced (maybe I should give credit where credit is due and tell you that my husband knew this and I only knew that I should drink whatever he brought home
. Now we have an evolving business, enough Spanish under our belts to be dangerous, and have created a sense of respect and love for the country that we may not have gained unless we actually worked it from the ground up. Trust yourself and everything you can create with your imagination. Again, the only thing keeping us back from our dreams is our own fear.
Ben
23 May 07 at 1:05 am
Is it peoples experience that the language is the biggest hurdle to overcome? From all I have learned about Spanish culture, there are differences for sure, but the stumbling block seems to come when people have to put in the long hours of practise, especially if you are not living in Spain. This makes it more difficult to learn even the basics, let alone finer points.
Michelle
23 May 07 at 2:43 am
I too have been dreaming about moving to Europe after visiting Italy for the first time two years ago. I just got back from Spain about a month ago and I fell in love with the landscapes, people, culture, and more than anything the fact that people live their lives with passion. Spaniards seem to enjoy every minute of their lives and are very social people. They work to live, unlike the US where we live to work. I do not know what I am waiting for. It should not be hard for me since Spanish is my main language (I was born in Puerto Rico) and I have a good education (I am a Water Resources-Civil Engineer)…But I am just afraid of change…
Carl
23 May 07 at 3:52 am
I envy members of the EU. It is easier getting started in Spain. Americans have a little tougher time of it. Usually they start businesses (Catavino I commend you) or work in the fringes / teaching English. I tried and failed to find work in my chosen profession in Madrid, gave up and decided I had to work in the US and dream / play in Madrid. Maybe I should have tried harder.
Ben
23 May 07 at 10:01 am
Martin – If you are that keen then you have to try it. Even your worst case scenarios are reperable in the long run, don’t you think? A bit of planning and enough motivation to make sure you throw yourself at any and all opportunities makes any dreams acheivable in my opinion. Yes things can go wrong, but unless you try….
Daniel
24 May 07 at 4:48 am
I was born in Sevilla, lived there until I was 5. My step father was an American and we moved to the US. I have lived in the US all my life, yet all my life I have felt I do not belong here. My mother is moving back to Spain next year. I long to move back myself although I have an American wife and child now and I’m afraid she does not share the same feelings.
The reason I am explaining this is because I feel that if you have nothing to stop you then you must go or you will regret it for the rest of your life.
Daniel
“Si al grito de “¡Viva España!”
otro ¡Viva! no responde
si es hombre, no es español…
y si es español no es hombre”
Carl
24 May 07 at 4:52 am
Wow Martin,
You should move. My problem was that I also actually liked it in LA, as well as Madrid, so it was easier to stay in LA most of the time.
leftbanker
24 May 07 at 9:41 am
As daunting as finally moving to Spain seemed before I finally did it, not moving to Spain seemed 100 times more intolerable. The internet has made this a lot easier. It’s a snap to find a place to live which is the most crucial element about taking the leap—that and money.
I spoke Spanish fairly well before I got here so I was able to hit the ground running. After being here six months I feel that my Spanish will never be as good as I’d like it to be. I think that I work harder at it than any illegal alien in Spain. Reading a lot is very important for vocabulary building. Read everything you can get your hands on. Reading literature in Spanish is the biggest reward for me. I am currently about 50 pages into Mario Varga Llosa’s (not a Spaniard, but still!) Travesuras de la Niña Mala. Learning Spanish takes a lot of hard work and there are times when I feel that it requires a larger brain than the one I was issued. I think that I’ll start to feel good about my Spanish when I can fully understand the football broadcasts. I realize this is a lofty goal but I’m committed.
rod
25 May 07 at 10:15 am
No-one should move to Spain without finding out exactly what they are letting themselves in for. But once you have made that decision to move – as I have – what you need is as much positive encouragement like this as possible – so keep up the great work, Ben!
helen
18 Jun 07 at 11:06 am
hi im a single parent im thinking of selling everything in my house and moving to spain i have done a care job for 15yrs but now so many foreign people have entered our country my boss has cut my hrs from 36 a week to 18 im struggling to pay my rent to council i have thought about moving to spain for a long time will i be ok to come with only enough money to pay for accomodation and food i have nothing else no credit cards no house to sell no capital im a hard worker and hope to find a job helen
H H
1 Jul 07 at 1:37 pm
I’m approaching my third year here in Spain, and while I’m very glad that I made the move in the first place because this experience has taught me a lot, the more time I spend here the more I realize that it is not the utopia I once thought it was. Socially it’s been the hardest for me. Being an American I’ve encountered much more antiamericanism than I ever cared to encounter. I’m also critical of my government and society, but there’s a certain amount of respect that people should show towards other people just because they’re a human being. It’s come to the point where I dont look forward to introducing myself to people anymore because of the rude comments people usually make. More than anything I want to return to a place where I’m accepted as a person and not constantly judged for being an immigrant, a learner of Spanish, an American. I want to go home.
S McCormick
30 Jul 07 at 11:42 am
I am wondering if there is work for UK qualified accountants or would my husband need to retake some exams?
Look forward to hearing from anyone with any info.
thanks
Sabrina
milamapolas
15 Apr 08 at 4:49 pm
I am Spanish but moved to London when I was 19. I am 39 now and my partner and I are thinking of moving to Spain just because of the much better quality of life that we see in Spain. However, my heart is torn. I love London and I I feel at home here, I always feel Spain is great for holidays, but not sure if I could get used to the (too relaxed for me!) pace of productivity… I keep on thinking of the things I would miss culturally, the variety of food (I love Corean and Thai food) … and my addiction to oatcakes !
Can anyone comment if you miss any of these?
One more thing: You can’t imagine how great it feels to read people are willing to learn the language of the country…I know so many British who live in Spain and have just the most basic Spanish… I cannot understand those little ghettos…
thanks
JP
17 Apr 08 at 8:33 pm
I am a New Yorker that has been living here for 7 years..I left after 9-11, fell in love and decided to stay. for those Americans that wish to live here…Forget it!!! This is a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY…the people here are unprofessional,racist and ignorant. The pay is below standard..Min wage is 700Euros a month …but housing cost the same or more than NYC. The political system is embarrassing. A large percent of the country lives below the poverty rate. Yet the banks,telephone co.,water ect..are making millions..Spainiards care about few things except FOOTBALL, Drinking, and three day holidays for some Saint.
work permits, resident permits, drivers licence..endless paperwork, and lines…the spanish drive awfull..they run red lights…and dont respect any laws…the biggest mistake i made in my life was to move here..Now I am Stuck..please evryone reconsider and look at cities like Berlin,hamburg,london,dublin.they are much more cultured and going in the right direction..Spain will soon be like Italy..a disaster.
bertino
22 Apr 08 at 11:49 am
well,JP , I see that youre one of these illegal americans in Spain ,as to spain being a third world country , well, many things are cheaper in the us now , so it means that the usa is not expensive for a spaniard
Here Social Security is universal and open even to illegals like you, in the USA , it is not.
If you have prejudices against the people of Spain, that is your look out . Therefore , just do us the favor of returning to your now not so rich USA ,before someone or other send you back to the states by first class or priority mail
bertino
22 Apr 08 at 11:59 am
Part of the antiamericanism in Spain is the blame of some guys like JP. embued with every kind of prejudice who doesnt know that many areas of their country were tamed by spaniards . We know that this is hurtul to you , but its just reality. and what is more there will come the day when the spanish language becomes official in some southern us states, and that day will be upon you in a not so far future, but take it easy , you moron
JP
4 May 08 at 1:49 am
First..I am NOT living illegaly. in spain.I am a professional working as a freelance in the audio-visual buisness…I pay my monthly Freelancers fee..my IVA’s. ..but cannot collect el paro or recieve a pension when I retire. yet I pay 200Euros a month. I Live with a Catalan woman that is also a professional and my Radical view is shared by many spaniards…I think most people are nice in spain but again they want to live the life of pueblo but want the best of a modern city…MY mother is spanish..so I do have a certain right to speak my mind.Bartino you have no idea I soppose you are not one of those young spainards that spent 5 years in college ..to earn 1000 euros a month..it has nothing to do with prejudice but with common sense…By the way spanish is spoken all over the US but it will never be official..I think you never even set foot in the states? I was hoping someone more intelligent would remark on my message but i guess not..It seems you dont read the papers or know anything about the current political climate…I am looking for people that share my view..not ignorant people that live in another planet…FACT.. SPAIN IS BETWEEN TURKY AND ITALY in most important issues that regard the well being of the country…One foot in the current world and on foot in the third world..you apparently seem like you live in a small village…
luis
11 May 08 at 12:16 pm
I f Spain were a third world country , it wouldn be in the european union and wouldnt meet its requirements
2 Spain,s per capita income is higher than Italy , then Italy must be another third world country
3 in Spain , there over 4 million inmigrants . and inmigrants never go from a third world country to another
4 Spain the the major investor in South america, a third worl country would never be a major investor, it would receive investments from abroad
conclusion . the problem is that to you JP only countries withenglish related languages are condidered ok , of France well it depends
and sothern europe of courde not . tell that to the marines¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
bill
12 May 08 at 11:16 am
Ignore him Luis – if he genuinely wants an unprejudiced and intelligent debate, he wouldn’t be posting prejudiced and provocative comments.
JP
13 May 08 at 11:00 am
My intention was tell in my own words and way what i felt living here..If someone takes it as a insult ..its thier problem…Just like its mine when I a disliked or insulted becuase I am From the United States of America…Not one person that read the thread ..left a real response to the issues I mention ..Prejudice seems to be a easy word to throw around..yet no one thought about responding to the problems in the spanish system…1).Romania Is in the european Union..please look in wilkipedia or speak to the Millions of romanians that live in “third world country situations” in Spain. 2) so its normal that a person with a univesity degree earns so little that they have to leave their country to find a better living? 4)What do the “marines” have anything to do with what I have said???..I will no longer write in this thread..or Blog ..I believe i have stumbled onto a dead end..without provacative ¨Intelligent¨ debate how can there be change..
hellin
15 May 08 at 12:31 pm
If someone or oher think , just before arriving in Spain , that they will see a sort of southern Italy and Mexico all rolled into one , they may have another thought coming, for that purpose, they ,d better borrow from Rod Taylor or Guy Pearce their respective time machines so as to travel back in time to 1958, its just a piece of advice , but then do not get annoyed if you dont see what you WISHED to see
hellin
26 May 08 at 3:33 pm
as to professionals leaving Spain for a better leaving, most spaniards living abroad are not university graduates , so thats false , what happens is that you like to play with the steorotypes of the past because your pride does not allow you to admit of certain things.
4,5 million foreigner live 1 million spainiards live abroad , this doesnt mean anything to you¿
scott
9 Dec 08 at 10:29 pm
Moving to Spain was the biggest mistake of my life! I was married to a spaniard, we lived in the USA 14 years and had three kids. Our deal was if I was not happy we would move back. After two years I was unhappy and she refused to move back. Five years later we divorced and as a foreigner you get screwed. I now live in the USA with one son and have two kids there. If you have kids here in the USA and want to try, write up an agreement that in case of divorce, your kids move back with you!!!!!
lili
13 Feb 09 at 12:46 pm
It’s interesting reading all this. I visit Spain as often as possible to see friends. I love the country so much I want to move there. I am under no illusion that living there initially will be difficult, but I think I could adapt well. I plan to do it in 1-2 years, after learning as much Spanish as possible here at home and saving so good backup funds. One big concern that is holding me back, is that I am too old, at 36. Does any one else think this is a relevant concern? I guess I am looking for some inspiration from others who may have relocated at a similar age!
RayTibbitts
14 Feb 09 at 11:30 pm
I don’t think age has nearly as much influence as other aspects, such as nationality, language, kids, and marital status.
What is it that you expect to be a problem, age wise?
What do you want to gain (or leave behind) by coming here?
How long will you give yourself to achieve this goal, before you give up and go back?
Do you want to open this up as a forum topic?
Ben
15 Feb 09 at 12:15 pm
Never too old Lili, I’m 36 and feel I could certainly make a move like this again if I were in your place.
ValenciaSon
15 Feb 09 at 5:54 pm
36 means, at least for me, that one is now old enough to effectively anticipate and/or mitigate mishaps in life.
lili
17 Feb 09 at 1:37 pm
I never regarded nationality to be a consideration in a move to Spain. My experience of the Spanish is that the people are welcoming to me, and have always appreciated my attempts to speak in their own language and are genuinely impressed, amused and pleased by what I have learnt in a short period.
I think I was concerned by my age, because primarily, I don’t have a family and I am single. In Britain I think a lot of people don’t have much regard for those who reach a certain age and don’t have children. I think people expect you to have achieved certain things by a certain age. Maybe that’s small town mentality of some people here? I know that family is very important to the Spanish, so perhaps I am concerned that my lack of family might single me out for suspicion, and make it difficult to befriend new people? But I do like to think that the Spanish are a modern thinking accepting society in a lot of respects; well my mix of Spanish friends certainly are!
Spain appeals to me because everytime I visit I feel at home in a way I never have in Britain, and it is always a wrench to leave. If I can become as fluent as possible with the language and work hard I don’t see why it couldn’t work for me, and I’m not the sort of person who suffers from home-sickness or does things on a whim. Such a move is not to be taken lightly, and I wouldn’t give myself a time limit as such; I don’t see giving up and going home to be an option unless financially, I was completely broken. Perro que no camina, no encuentra hueso – as the Spanish might say!
RayTibbitts
18 Feb 09 at 3:54 am
@lili,
36 may be the ideal age to come to Spain as a single woman, as this is the average age that Spaniard males are finally ready to cut the apron strings and leave out on their own.
Okay, jokes aside, from what I have seen of Spain, and what I’ve read from you, you’ll do great here. Spain is so vast and varied you are sure to find a place that meets any of your goals, no matter if you’re interested in traditional human relationships, creating a large circle of friends, or even meeting new people every night, or keeping to yourself, or all of the above, while still having a good time. I recommend taking advantage of being the the ‘new girl on the block.’
And if you ever get bored, but still want to stay in Spain, it seems fairly easy to just move to a new, completely different area, without having to learn all the ‘rules’ all over again.
For your first move into Spain, learning the language is understandably the major limiting factor, and then I would say work experience. Although Spaniards are culturally very open and accepting, I have not found them to be all that patient with lack of language skills, unless you are obviously just starting to learn, and then they want to be helpful. I am glad you have had good experiences with this. It’s a great country to come as a student of language, and it may sound stupid on my part to even say this, success is improbable without fluency.
Whether you can find an employer willing to compensate your efforts, at a rate you find sufficient, is likely diminishing as quickly in Spain as it is anywhere else, right now. If you have money saved up, you already know that it won’t buy as much in Spain as it used to. Salaries in Spain have in no way kept up with this trend, just in case you were wondering.
Statistically, Spaniards spend a larger chunk of their income on their rent/mortgage than the rest of world. I highly recommend trying to NOT participate in this trend. Hold out for better. If it is too small, don’t buy it. If it’s too expensive, don’t feel bad about saying so. Take the time to find the best possible return on your investment.
Nationality: being from the UK, you’ll have the “benefit” of always being perceived as a tourist, no matter how long you live here. It’s a blessing and a curse, as is being from the EU.
If you happened to be Oriental or African or Muslim, you are much less likely to be perceived as a tourist. The percentage of the population that treats you with the same level of respect will also decrease, much as it reportedly does in other nations.
thanks for allowing me the opportunity to opine.
bill (Legazpi)
18 Feb 09 at 11:06 am
@lili – I moved to Madrid when I was 34 and, although I had a Spanish girlfriend to show me the ropes, it struck me as much easier to integrate than if I had moved to another UK city. Certainly in the big Spanish cities you won’t be treated as someone unusual for being single at 36, partly because it is not that unusual: I know many Spanish in similar situations. Also, the Spanish who do decide to have families don’t tend to lock themselves in their houses like the British do. The Spanish maintain their social lives and generally go out more.
Meli
14 Apr 09 at 7:44 am
Hello!
My family & i, (i’m 14) are moving to Spain in around a month, & i’m kind of nervous. I know Spanish, because I am originally from Uruguay, and moved to the US when I was 7, but my mom doesn’t know English, so i have kept my Spanish. My mom is soon marrying a Spaniard, and we will move to Spain when we are able to do so llegally, as citizens, or residents. For those of you who have moved from the US to Spain, & have kids, how is the schooling system? How are the adolecents? Is is hard ajusting to the system? I’ve heard it’s very different from the US, i don’t personally know, i’ve never been there. What grade would i be put in, (i’m currently in 9th)? What grade would my little sister be put it, she’s 12 and in 6th grade?
Thanks for answering any of these questions, or even replying.
Ben
14 Apr 09 at 8:54 am
@Meli, I’m afraid I don’t know the answers to your questions, but I really suggest you register and ask in our forum, where there are lots more people ready to answer this kind of question.
Good luck with the move, you’ll love it in Spain!
Cristina
27 Jun 09 at 7:40 pm
I was born in Spain but became an american citizen when my parents moved the family to the US. I have been wanting to move to Spain for years but never had the guts to try. Ok, now, how do I go about it, how do I get started….HELP!!!!
David
15 Jul 09 at 7:50 pm
US citizen living in San Diego, CA, fluent in spanish I have been thinking about moving to Spain, how do I go about it, how do I get started….HELP!!!!
bill (Legazpi)
16 Jul 09 at 10:57 am
@Christina, David
Take a look at the forum on this site – there’s quite a bit of info. Also if you post there you can describe your situation in more detail.