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	<title>Comments on: Racism in Spain &#8211; Further Thoughts</title>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37404</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37404</guid>
		<description>@ Bill

Oh yes, and I also agree on the issue of &#039;race&#039;. There is only one race, the human race AKA Homo sapiens L. ! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bill</p>
<p>Oh yes, and I also agree on the issue of &#8216;race&#8217;. There is only one race, the human race AKA Homo sapiens L. ! <img src='http://www.notesfromspain.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37403</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37403</guid>
		<description>@ Bill

I agree wholeheartedly on the issue of past atrocities and modern generations: people should never be made to atone for the sins of their ancestors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bill</p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly on the issue of past atrocities and modern generations: people should never be made to atone for the sins of their ancestors.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37400</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37400</guid>
		<description>@Edith - Thank you for the information.

I agree with you in that the Jews were subject to racism. Racism has little to do with &quot;race&quot; as such, since there is no way of defining someone&#039;s race and ultimately we are all mixed race and related to each other to some extent. 

To me racism is more to do with the persecution of a group of people because of something they have in common, be it religion, skin colour, hair colour, political leanings, or even the football team they support.

Most Spanish people I know don&#039;t trivialise the inquisition, although they don&#039;t see what it has to do with them anyway - it was from a different age. After all, if the Spanish can&#039;t move on from what happened in their country many centuries ago, what hope is there for certain other european countries where atrocities are still very much fresh in the memory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Edith &#8211; Thank you for the information.</p>
<p>I agree with you in that the Jews were subject to racism. Racism has little to do with &#8220;race&#8221; as such, since there is no way of defining someone&#8217;s race and ultimately we are all mixed race and related to each other to some extent. </p>
<p>To me racism is more to do with the persecution of a group of people because of something they have in common, be it religion, skin colour, hair colour, political leanings, or even the football team they support.</p>
<p>Most Spanish people I know don&#8217;t trivialise the inquisition, although they don&#8217;t see what it has to do with them anyway &#8211; it was from a different age. After all, if the Spanish can&#8217;t move on from what happened in their country many centuries ago, what hope is there for certain other european countries where atrocities are still very much fresh in the memory?</p>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37396</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37396</guid>
		<description>@ Bill,

It&#039;s relevant from a historical perspective because it shows that racism has a long history in Spain, like anywhere else in Europe. 

True, the Inquisition took place all over Catholic Europe and Jews were persecuted almost everwhere, but it was Spain which invented the concept of &#039;limpieza de sangre&#039; (this shocked Simon Wiesenthal). The fact that Jews are not a race is irrelevant, because they were treated as such by their persecutors. 

As far as the historians are concerned, I&#039;d have to look up their names but I have read several references in a book about Spanish history by Robert Lemm, a pro-Franco and pro-Opus Dei historian from Holland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bill,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s relevant from a historical perspective because it shows that racism has a long history in Spain, like anywhere else in Europe. </p>
<p>True, the Inquisition took place all over Catholic Europe and Jews were persecuted almost everwhere, but it was Spain which invented the concept of &#8216;limpieza de sangre&#8217; (this shocked Simon Wiesenthal). The fact that Jews are not a race is irrelevant, because they were treated as such by their persecutors. </p>
<p>As far as the historians are concerned, I&#8217;d have to look up their names but I have read several references in a book about Spanish history by Robert Lemm, a pro-Franco and pro-Opus Dei historian from Holland.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37381</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37381</guid>
		<description>AFAIK The inquisition took place all over catholic Europe - Spain was the most prominent and powerful catholic country at the time and therefore &quot;lead the way&quot;.

Nobody knows exactly what went on, though I can imagine some Spanish nationalists might have attempted to play it down, while Spain&#039;s opponents might have exaggerated it. 

However I&#039;d still be interested in knowing which historians have trivialized it. If it&#039;s just some historian(s) at the end of the 19th century, or indeed under Franco, then I really don&#039;t see how it is relevant to a discussion on the extent of racism in modern Spain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AFAIK The inquisition took place all over catholic Europe &#8211; Spain was the most prominent and powerful catholic country at the time and therefore &#8220;lead the way&#8221;.</p>
<p>Nobody knows exactly what went on, though I can imagine some Spanish nationalists might have attempted to play it down, while Spain&#8217;s opponents might have exaggerated it. </p>
<p>However I&#8217;d still be interested in knowing which historians have trivialized it. If it&#8217;s just some historian(s) at the end of the 19th century, or indeed under Franco, then I really don&#8217;t see how it is relevant to a discussion on the extent of racism in modern Spain.</p>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-2/#comment-37380</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37380</guid>
		<description>@ Faemina,

I agree with most of the viewpoints in your post, but the problem is that &#039;los reyes cat&#243;licos&#039; didn&#039;t see it that way at the time. They considered the Jews to be aliens, hence the expulsion order and the concept of &#039;limpieza de sangre&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Faemina,</p>
<p>I agree with most of the viewpoints in your post, but the problem is that &#8216;los reyes cat&oacute;licos&#8217; didn&#8217;t see it that way at the time. They considered the Jews to be aliens, hence the expulsion order and the concept of &#8216;limpieza de sangre&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: faemino</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-37379</link>
		<dc:creator>faemino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37379</guid>
		<description>Edith, regarding the La Leyenda Negra, about the behaviour of the Spaniards in the Americas, I have to agree with you, it isn&#039;t a legend, and it is indeed very black. 

However, I think you are wrong regarding The Inquisition. Ethnic cleansing? Cleansing, it was, but ethnic?.  All the Spaniards back in XV century belonged to the same ethnicity, no matter their religion. Gipsies were the only exception.

Surprised? They were the same people. Same people, 3 different religions.  There weren&#039;t 3 different &quot;races&quot;, everybody was very mixed, just like now. That&#039;s what we were and still are, a beautiful mix. 

The Reconquista didn&#039;t become a War of Religion until the XIII century. Until that time, marriages. alliances, conversions, mixing, fighting, loving, hating, etc...was the norm, not the exception. Everybody was fighting against everybody, for the possesion of land. Religion didn&#039;t count at all. Just read the &quot;Cantar del Mio Cid&quot;, and you&#039;ll see what I mean. 

It was a mess, and we, the Spaniards, are the result of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edith, regarding the La Leyenda Negra, about the behaviour of the Spaniards in the Americas, I have to agree with you, it isn&#8217;t a legend, and it is indeed very black. </p>
<p>However, I think you are wrong regarding The Inquisition. Ethnic cleansing? Cleansing, it was, but ethnic?.  All the Spaniards back in XV century belonged to the same ethnicity, no matter their religion. Gipsies were the only exception.</p>
<p>Surprised? They were the same people. Same people, 3 different religions.  There weren&#8217;t 3 different &#8220;races&#8221;, everybody was very mixed, just like now. That&#8217;s what we were and still are, a beautiful mix. </p>
<p>The Reconquista didn&#8217;t become a War of Religion until the XIII century. Until that time, marriages. alliances, conversions, mixing, fighting, loving, hating, etc&#8230;was the norm, not the exception. Everybody was fighting against everybody, for the possesion of land. Religion didn&#8217;t count at all. Just read the &#8220;Cantar del Mio Cid&#8221;, and you&#8217;ll see what I mean. </p>
<p>It was a mess, and we, the Spaniards, are the result of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-37377</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37377</guid>
		<description>The term &#039;Black Legend&#039; was coined by s Spanish historian at the turn of the 19th century, and it has been a favorite rhetorical tool for Spanish nationalists ever since. Unfortunately, the controversy over the Spanish Inquisition and the expulsion of the Jews has often been reduced to an ideological battle between Catholics and Protestants. Its main victims, the Jews, were silenced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term &#8216;Black Legend&#8217; was coined by s Spanish historian at the turn of the 19th century, and it has been a favorite rhetorical tool for Spanish nationalists ever since. Unfortunately, the controversy over the Spanish Inquisition and the expulsion of the Jews has often been reduced to an ideological battle between Catholics and Protestants. Its main victims, the Jews, were silenced.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-37375</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37375</guid>
		<description>Which historians, and how do you know they are trivializing it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which historians, and how do you know they are trivializing it?</p>
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		<title>By: Edith</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2007/05/29/racism-in-spain-further-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-37374</link>
		<dc:creator>Edith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/793/#comment-37374</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m not saying that. It has happened many times in history, before and after the Spanish Inquisition. I was merely trying to point out that conservative Spanish historians still trivialize this particular episode in history as being part of a so-called &#039;leyenda negra&#039;, cooked up by the Protestants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m not saying that. It has happened many times in history, before and after the Spanish Inquisition. I was merely trying to point out that conservative Spanish historians still trivialize this particular episode in history as being part of a so-called &#8216;leyenda negra&#8217;, cooked up by the Protestants.</p>
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