Much has already been written about this in other blogs, our forum, and in the news in Spain and the UK, but I don’t think it can be given too much attention.
The fact that Lewis Hamilton endured the usual bout of racist remarks (puto negro etc) as he tested this weekend at Barcelona’s Montmelo circuit is bad enough, but the fact that in this day and age there are people who thought it acceptable to black-up boot-polish style and acutally appear in public in the stands (wearing T-shirts saying “Hamilton’s Family”) is quite astounding. It puts Spain about 20 years behind the UK in terms of what might be considered acceptable social human behavior.
Of course racism is still a problem in the UK and beyond, but nowadays most racist idiots have the wherewithal to keep it to private conversations, or behind closed doors.
The regulatory body behind Formula 1 has apparently threatened to pull out of at least one of the two races planned for Spain later in the year (in Barcelona and Valencia) if there is any more of this nonsense, but I’m willing to bet that 1) there will be, and 2) absolutely nothing will happen as a result.
In terms of preparing and developing intelligent, open attitudes for the integrated, plural society that Spain has no choice but to accept it is fast becoming, it seems there is still a very very long way to go. There is trouble ahead, but hard and fast punitive action now could make a substantial difference. Let’s see if Formula 1, for a start, has the balls to put it’s money where it’s mouth is.
Tom Clarke
11 Feb 08 at 3:09 pm
Leftbanker – excellent! You’ve brightened up my Monday.
frank
11 Feb 08 at 4:38 pm
“This is not acceptable and let me tell you that when some british hooligans killed some turquish(sic) supporters,”
This sort of thing typifies a Spanish approach to the UK, and your one eyed reporting. You make a point about telling us about some Turkish supporters being killed, what you don’t tell us about is that a Leeds supporter “supposedly insulted” a Turkish van diver, and two Leeds supporters were knifed and killed. If you insist on telling us about British violence, and you clearly do, give us all the facts and not just cherry pick the bits that suit you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/703283.stm
Give us a few home truths as well.
The recent conviction of Ricardo Guerra for the murder of Aitor Zabaleta, a Real Sociedad fan from Spain’s Basque region, is a case in point. Zabaleta’s death came in the aftermath of the stoning of an Atletico Madrid supporters’ bus after a cup tie played in San Sebastian, during which Atletico’s notorious Bastion group of hooligans, of which Guerra was a member, had chanted "Fuera, fuera maricones, negros, Vascos, Catalanes, fuera, fuera†(Get out, get out, queers, niggers, Basques and Catalans) to the tune of the Spanish national anthem.
Toncho
11 Feb 08 at 5:27 pm
HereWegoAgain, actualy my post is trying to explain the reasons behind, not to excuse such behaviour, I will call that introspection… anyway at least I tried. The paragraph about England was by no means trying to make a childish scalate, it was just trying to show how the media covered this story in such an unffair and exagerated way. Sorry if my points were not clear, english is not my mt after all.
That been said and for the sake of it, we spanish have a lot of room for improvement about this maybe this whole story will help to speed up the process. I also hope we will talk more about sport and less about racism.
españolito
11 Feb 08 at 9:13 pm
hereWeGoAgain, how can a person like you, who says “sin ponerse colorado/a”, as we say in Spain, that “Spaniards, in general, are incapable of handling any level of criticism or any sort of self-inspection.”, dare to accuse anyone of intolerance of any kind. How do you say “ver la paja en el ojo ajeno y no ver la viga en el propio”, in English?
To begin with, the Spaniards who post here, including me, are by no means representative of the average Spaniard. Guess why.
To continue, we don’t have the same opinion, and our opinions are only ours, obviously. Finally, talking about myself now, I never said, “you British are worse”. I just said I’m not willing to accept any lessons from the British or from anyone else , for that matter.
Someone in here said we should ask some black person’s opinion on this. Well, I did it, I talked about this with one person from Cuba and one person from Britain. Their opinions were completely different, because, guess what?, not all black people have the same opinion. Black latinos are latinos and black British are British. Seems obvious, doesn’t it?, well, a lot of people tend to forget this. I would have loved to talk about this with someone from Africa, but I don’t know anyone from there.
Toncho
11 Feb 08 at 9:19 pm
I found this interesting view on the net:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3341989.ece
This is my last post on this, promise!
españolito
11 Feb 08 at 9:29 pm
wow, Toncho, I’m shocked!, chapeau to The Times, but hey, that’s John Carlin, who is almost a Spaniard at heart, so I guess he doesn’t count. But there is hope…, there is hope
MedioGringo
12 Feb 08 at 8:20 am
Wow.
The irony in some these comments is so thick I want to spread it on a cracker and eat it.
Half of the Brits and Americans on this site are condemning an entire nation on the actions of a very visible few. The very essence of racism and discrimination.
Let’s all take a deep breath.
frank
12 Feb 08 at 9:29 am
“Half of the Brits and Americans on this site are condemning an entire nation on the actions of a very visible few. ”
As I quoted from a Spanish source, there were a lot more than four involved. Plus most people’s opinions are based on other facts and personal experience. But jif you wish to hear the real voice of Spain expressed, read a Spanish F1 forum, and then tell me it’s just a few.
No fue un hecho aislado, sino la conducta general de unos 3.500 aficionados que se dieron cita en la tribuna principal del circuito ayer por la mañana.
Joe
12 Feb 08 at 11:16 am
I would agree that Spanish people are not as good at accepting criticism – but then Brits are some of the best in the world at accepting it! While I lived in Spain I had all kinds of curious questions about “how bad life really is ‘up there’” and people tried to insult me by telling me about news items they’d seen about drunk people in town centres etc…in fact all I could do was agree in many cases, as often they did have a point – but this just made them even more angry, as they were expecting an angry defensive reaction! I hereby declare that I admit that Britain has race-related social problems. OK?
Joe
12 Feb 08 at 11:22 am
Another point – way off topic but I after this many posts it’s got to be allowed: ever notice how many Spanish people don’t seem to like “Ingland” much, but can’t get enough of London?
ValenciaSon
12 Feb 08 at 11:32 am
@Joe: Or how many dislike the US but how most consume most of its products?
Andrew
12 Feb 08 at 11:45 am
I was only aware of anti-Americanism on a grand scale in Spain when Iraq was invaded and then Zapatero shortsightedly withdrew the Spanish troops. Absurdly 11-M didn’t seem to make Spaniards any more sympathetic to the US.
If Obama wins (and this can only be a thought experiment because he won’t) will Spain warm to the US?
MedioGringo
12 Feb 08 at 4:52 pm
@Frank
“As I quoted from a Spanish source, there were a lot more than four involved. Plus most people’s opinions are based on other facts and personal experience. But jif you wish to hear the real voice of Spain expressed, read a Spanish F1 forum, and then tell me it’s just a few.”
But you’re still using the same rationale. I could just as easily say “All these black American athletes are always getting into trouble with the law, therefore all black people are criminals”. It’s still just a very vocal minority, it’s just that those are the only people you notice.
I have a suspicion that the Spanish aren’t any more racist than Brits or Americans, it’s just that we’ve learned to mumble those same comments under our breath. What we do instead is condemn racism like it’s murder at every opportunity while harboring our own prejudices in private. Just ask Trent Lott. All those old racist American southerners are still here. People don’t suddenly become un-racist, you have to wait for them to die.
What the Spanish need to make sure they’re doing is condemning these comments so that the next generation can grow up in an environment where this isn’t tolerated.
Here’s a nugget of wisdom for your Spanish F1 forum:
http://www.joelogon.com/images_temp/successoryinternet400.jpg
Parubin
12 Feb 08 at 7:23 pm
Lewis Hamilton came back to Spain today to test his car in the Circuit of Jerez, Cádiz.
After the incidents in Barcelona last week (where he was abused by a small group of fanatics -despite what’s been said here it is clear in tv that he was harrased only by a very small number of fanatic bigots-) he received a warm welcome and the Spanish fans cheered at his arrival. He happily signed autographs for the fans at Jerez.
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2008/02/12/motor/1202835150.html?a=2cc2600196aa743fd9e997e4b6c2c2ea&t=1202839253
And talking about posts on internet forums, I’ve read some nasty posts and comments on English papers quite bigotted -if not racist- against the Spaniards, not to mention the link to the article on ‘The Daily Mash’ (provided on a previous post here above) which was stupidly insulting despite its attemp to be funny or satirical.
What begun as a racist incident by a small group of idiots has turned into a war between the English and the Spanish media, which I think it’d be foolish to pursue.
Tom
13 Feb 08 at 12:22 am
The Daily Mash article was funny because it mocked stereotypes used by the English and made them look ridiculous. Surely you can see that.
SeMeQuEmA
13 Feb 08 at 12:27 pm
Don’t like hamilton cuz is a nasty player, ok, he is NEGRO, wtf? he is, we have no problem with that, have u??
Hamilton family use to be everywhere, is a good joke.
Think british press want u to think spain is racist and u want to belive that, is the only way to attack white Alonso, cuz is much better than your black hamilton. (^_^)
SeMeQuEmA
13 Feb 08 at 4:07 pm
One more thing, negro in sanish means black
SeMeQuEmA
13 Feb 08 at 4:07 pm
spanish**
Juan
20 Feb 08 at 10:51 am
Hey let’s talk about british hooligans they’re no racist they hit and insult everybody!!
HereWeGoAgain
20 Feb 08 at 2:58 pm
@Juan, sí, como tú y tu “mierda de blog” como lo has nombrado. Deberías ser el último en decirle nada a nadie con tus entradas guarras sobre los anglos.
españolito
20 Feb 08 at 8:07 pm
Juan’s blog is almost as funny as the Daily Mash.
Tu tampoco estas para dar lecciones, HereWeGoAgain , a mi tu me las has intentado dar, cosa que yo contigo no he hecho.. Has intentado “educarme”, cosa que yo no he intentado contigo, porque te respeto.
En fin, que os vaya bonito a todos, un saludo y a madurar, Españoles y no Españoles
Peter Johns
24 Feb 08 at 2:26 am
Carmen from Murcia.. In the case you did not see: the people who insulted Hamilton were wearing black make-up on their face and calling him “negro hijo de p…” if this is not racist what is? If you want to make this incident just a matter of hate from Spain to Hamilton because of his personal issues with Alonso is your problem but don’t try to minimize the HUGE racism problem that Spain has. This is precisely the excuse Spanish people and the government use to cover it. Spain is the most racist country in Europe and one of the more racist countries in the world, it’s the reality.. sadly it is like this!!! I have been in most of the countries in Europe as well as Asia and North America but Madrid and Barcelona win the first price in racism.
For Jose Pedro coincidently from Murcia too, maybe you can dress-up the insults against Hamilton (negro hijo de p.., chimpance”) as part of your bast cultural traditions.. It is just a shame!!!
Peter Johns
24 Feb 08 at 2:28 am
Big racism problem in spain… you can not denie that… and it is getting worse because the people don’t see racist behavior in anything, espanolito for instance… it is just sad
Sam
24 Feb 08 at 12:39 pm
All countries have their racists, sexists, chauvinists, elitists, and social echelons. It always seems as though there is a pecking order. As per usual people fear things they do not understand and prefer sticking with things they know.
There is no excuse for racism only the hope that it will be eliminated as societies as a whole grow.
There is a problem when your technology evolves faster than your society.
UnVato
10 Mar 08 at 8:26 pm
Soy yo ingles y no temo de decir q en general somos tontisimos en cuestiones sociales. No entendemos una cultura q no sea la nuestra. Esta falta de comprension viene desde el hecho q nuestro nivel intelectual es muy bajo respeto a otros pueblos. En el continente de Europa hay una escala de inteligencia, desde los griegos y alemanes (1a posicion), luego catalanes, espanholes de todos tipos y italianos etc (2a)…luego los franceses, eslavos, escandinavos etc…y al fondo de la lista: ingleses.
Si no me crees vete a viajar x todo el continente (como he hecho yo 2 veces), y ya sera evidente!
Graeme
10 Mar 08 at 8:35 pm
Hay gente que pasa toda la vida viajando sin aprender nada.
Edith
1 Apr 08 at 11:36 pm
@UnVato
RE ‘En el continente de Europa hay una escala de inteligencia’
Los alemanes otra vez como raza superior… ¡porfa! ¿Te gustaría regresar a los años ‘nostálgicos’ de 1933-1945?
Todavía hay gente que sigue creyendo en estas generalizaciones absurdas, aunque la ciencia ha comprobado lo contrario… de verdad, soy incapaz de entender este forma de pensar.
Según los antropólogos y biólogos, no hay diferencias inatas de capacidad intelectual entre las razas y las etnias, y no existe una supremacía racial. Este ideología ya ha causado demasiadas guerras y genocidios en el mundo.
P.Daley
8 Apr 08 at 1:09 pm
My my…didn’t take long for the discussion to descend to this level.
JESUS LOVES ALL OF US!
Juan VC
12 Apr 08 at 11:47 pm
I never thought I would see an english guy write in spanish of how clever are the german people! This world is crazy…
ValenciaSon
13 Apr 08 at 3:31 am
UnVato y si uno es medio aleman y medio griego, sera igual que siendo un frances?
UnVato
13 Apr 08 at 4:35 am
No entiendo…no teneis ese topio q los griegos son muy muy listos y los ingleses super tontos? Pensaba q si…
Ankle+Worshiper
13 Apr 08 at 4:43 am
Mira q el pueblo griego siempre ha sido muy muy muy muy inteligente, desde Chipre hasta Macedonia. Hoy en dia los griegos son los mas listos del planeta, tanto como en siglos pasados. Y antes de q me lo demandes, no soy griego, soy gallego-irlandes, xo reconozco la verdad.
ValenciaSon
12 Aug 08 at 12:14 pm
Mirad que pococ conocimiento tiene alguna gente:http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/11/olympicsbasketball.olympics20081
Marina
2 Sep 08 at 1:34 am
Hi, I found these two very interesting articles. It may throw a new light on Spain’s supposedly excessive racism:
- Who’s worse… these Spanish F1 fans or the frothing British media? Ar article by an English journalist who actually thinks that Spain is more racially tolerant than England.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3341989.ece
- Is Spain racist? A case study. Written by an American black male, who has not experimented racist or bad treatment in Spain. He has lived there and he makes a very realistic approach to the issue.
http://equipaje.wordpress.com/2006/07/05/is-spain-racist-a-case-study/