Comment from HereWeGoAgain
Time: February 23, 2008, 10:31 pm

I’ve noticed on this blog and in other online Spain-centric or Spaniard forums that when a Spaniard gets pissed off he doesn’t just leave. He has to announce that he’s leaving and raise quite a stink while he’s at it. In another Spaniard forum I’ve seen this happen many times and each time other Spaniards will post replies saying “No, please don’t go!” and stuff like that. It’s kind of strange. It’s like the person raising a stink wants to be the center of attention.

Also, it’s rich how españolito is so quick to generalize and label people based on nationality when he himself asked others not to generalize and label Spaniards. Do as he says, not as he does, I guess.

Comment from Andrew
Time: February 23, 2008, 11:39 pm

I really am scratching my head trying to work out if you are attempting to humiliate him by blogging this and encouraging supportive venomous comments from the sect.

Comment from frank
Time: February 23, 2008, 11:49 pm

It’s always sad to see anyone leave, for whatever reasons, but especially native Spanish speakers, as I enjoy reading them, even when I totally disagree with what they are saying. And I have to say, in this case, I don’t think I have ever been in agreement with españolito. He has accused me, and many others, of speaking rubbish, it would seem he is the only one capable of informed comment. I read many Spanish forums, and when it comes to xenophobia, we come a very poor second to the Spanish, they are past masters at the art of xenophobia, they have had a lifetime of practice. And the curious thing is, they don´t even think they are xenophobic. Alonso himself said , he could see nothing wrong with behaviour at Montmeló.
But whatever, españolito has decided to throw his dummy out of the pram, along with the rattle, and we´ll have to mourn his leaving!
And DON’T slam the door on the way out.
¡Adios amigo!

Comment from dean
Time: February 24, 2008, 12:48 am

Good riddance.

Some people can’t see past the end of their nose. I never did understand why he stayed around for so long, considering every post and every other comment seemed to offend him so much.

I am sure you won’t be losing any sleep Ben

Comment from leftbanker
Time: February 24, 2008, 9:24 am

I don’t know who he is accusing of xenophobia; many of us here are ex-pats living in Spain struggling to learn the language and the culture, and happy to be doing it. I’ll keep reading Notes from Spain with my half-a-brain (he almost always questioned the intelligence of anyone with whom he disagreed). Adiós amigo, remember to click an ad on your way out.

Comment from luke
Time: February 24, 2008, 11:05 am

Pretty sure this is the second time he has said he is leaving this site.

Comment from Mrmark
Time: February 24, 2008, 11:33 am

“I read many Spanish forums, and when it comes to xenophobia, we come a very poor second to the Spanish, they are past masters at the art of xenophobia, they have had a lifetime of practice. And the curious thing is, they don´t even think they are xenophobic”

Brits not xenophobic? You must be having a laugh. And it’s the Brits who get on their high horse and go around pointing the finger at other nations (one example being Spain, as we’ve seen recently)

A Russian visitor to Britain recently made her comments on the country:
“A Russian’s view of Britain 2008: Greedy, scruffy, lazy and full of size 22 women shaking their haunches”

Here’s some of the replies (from those famous non xenophobic Brits) on another bb.

“What a miserable cow. Fuck off if you don’t like it, nobody’s forcing you to stay”

“She needs to take a critical look at her own country before slagging off ours. Anyroad, I agree with what Nurse said upthread. The UK isn’t a Gulag and you can freely fuck right off if you don’t like it here.”

“If it’s so shit here, why is she still here? She can always ‘go back to Russia’, which is presumably idyillic.”

Conclusion : we’re just as bad in the UK as anywhere else at giving abuse, and just as sensitive to criticism.

Comment from Andrew
Time: February 24, 2008, 11:39 am

Españolito will be back, under a different name probably. So Ben has lost his confidence and is thinking of moving back to England for a while…he tries desperately to be a Spaniard but knows that he will never be truly accepted so he resents it and has a dig at Spaniards via his blog. Where’s all that positive energy you used to have…there can’t be any pleasure in this for you can there? This site used to be a celebration of Spain (as the tagline says, “Bringing you the best of Spain”) now its main purpose is to get people, mostly Spaniards vs the rest, to have a good ‘ol ding-dong. I’ve fallen for it too and should do an Españolito and foxtrot oscar out of here. Now where’s that hosts file…

Comment from Ben
Time: February 24, 2008, 11:57 am

Andrew and Españolito - one and the same?

Comment from Andrew
Time: February 24, 2008, 1:27 pm

:-) No, but he could be you - you sly old fox! Look back through the history of this site and ‘Ben’ never disagrees with the regulars. It is inconcievable that you could always have the same opinion about everything. So, you are ValenciaSon, Edith etc. OR when you want to disagree with them you post under a different name. Brilliant - I’m annoyed at not spotting this before.

Comment from north
Time: February 24, 2008, 1:38 pm

I am sorry for Espanolito leaving. Altough I only read the comments on and off, I thought he made som balancing points/ arguments i the racism in spain debate.

And I must say, coming from neither spain or UK, some of the comments from UK were a lot like “sitting on a high hourse pointing down..”.

Mrmark `s post really says it all

I really hope this sight doesnt develope into an ex- pat site, wich I have never found it to be

Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: February 24, 2008, 1:40 pm

Damn, Andrew discovered me/us/we!

I will we ever grasp Piedad’s irony without Españolito to shepperd us through these complicated times.

Comment from Andrew
Time: February 24, 2008, 2:12 pm

Wow, people really need to go get out more. Sad..

Comment from Andrew
Time: February 24, 2008, 2:14 pm

This is freaking me out now. I haven’t been this confused since I saw Face/Off.

Comment from frank
Time: February 24, 2008, 2:21 pm

“Brits not xenophobic? ”

I said nothing of the sort. I said we come a poor second, which would mean I place them above us in the league, but in the same league. Perhaps you could point out the bit where I have said the Brits are not xenophobic. Quote me by all means, but don’t make it up as you go along.
I’m afraid the rest of your rant was lost on me.

Comment from AndrewW
Time: February 24, 2008, 2:52 pm

jajaja sorry. I will call myself AndrewW from now on to avoid further confusion

Comment from luke
Time: February 24, 2008, 5:17 pm

Maybe we’re all Ben with a multiple personality disorder? I’m English but I want to be Spanish…no you don’t…

Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: February 24, 2008, 5:34 pm

Teachings from the east tells us we are all one being and our individuality is an illusion.

Comment from Jonk
Time: February 25, 2008, 2:45 am

I’m another Ben multi. And if you want to buy the book it’s better to go through this one… just Paypal $5 to…

Ben does a great job putting up a wide variety of posts to keep us entertained. Which we read for free. I can’t complain really.

It’s good to have some posts that create some debate. And in the end, it’s not like Ben’s making stuff up. Sometimes there doesn’t seem to be any controversy - to me - until a post is gatecrashed by a horde of angry Spaniards.

Comment from Parubin
Time: February 25, 2008, 10:04 am

1.-
Españolito’s points, for the most part, were insightful and gave the other view on most controversial topics. Whether you agree with him or not, future debate in this forum will be somewhat poorer now.

2.-
Although I do not agree with Españolito when he says that most of the forum regulars are ‘a xenophobic, embittered little bunch with a complex’ (quite the contrary, most of the are open minded citizens of the world with a remarkable knowledge of Spain’s idyosincrasies) I know at least one member whose comments are always on the negative side and they have this superiority-inferiority-envious feel that make them exasperating at times. It seems that no matter what the issue discussed, if he or she doesn´t have anything positive to say, then he/she just shuts up.

3.-
And about the ‘cheap sensationalism’ bit, I’d say that Ben has been running this great site for a while now and he must have some kind of experience about the size of the feed-back and the number of expected replies to his comments even before posting. I, too, have realized that some of his best efforts are less rewarding because they don´t have as many responses and they pass unnoticed compared when he picks some easy-hot-controversial topic for massive debate.

Comment from sandy
Time: February 25, 2008, 10:34 am

Anyone who has lived in another country would understand it is very normal to bash about the host country whenever you have a chance and yet love living there at the same time. I do it, do you?

I have recently met a friend who says for every single thing she does not like about the host country she lives in, there is something she loves about it that makes up for it. No country is perfect, neither are we.

Comment from soy pescador
Time: February 25, 2008, 11:29 am

Now now boys and girls lets keep it tidy !
I agree with Sandy , I come from Cape Town S.A and for those who dont know where that is THE POINT OF AFRICA. I am married to a Espanola and have often said to her we need to be open to critisism. There are many things I do not like about my country and Spain but am willing to listen to valid comments.

Comment from Ane Miren Lambe
Time: February 25, 2008, 11:49 am

I also agree with Sandy and Pescador. My mother is a foreigner and it always used to annoy me how she and her other foreign friends used to moan about my native country. Now that I have lived in several countries I realise how it is almost necessary to have some other foreign friends and have an occasional bitch about the host country. It helps release some of the frustrations of not fully understanding the local culture, maybe the language and how everything works. In my view, the trick is to try not to let the annoying aspects get you down but instead really focus on what you like about where you’re living.

Comment from soy pescador
Time: February 25, 2008, 12:42 pm

A quick question , has Espanolito ever lived outside of his country. A outside opinion is often very distorted unless you have spent time living in a country other than your own.
When I first moved to Spain it was a big change in most ways for me. I have now however grown to like many things. This however does not mean that now I do not have any opinoin about the things that I think are in serious need of some critisism.

Comment from Pepino (Dave Hall)
Time: February 25, 2008, 12:55 pm

There´s nothing like a good whinge at times, and there´s nothing wrong with having a bit of a rant at times about your adopted country, if though you know full well that there are many more great things about it that far outweigh the bad. I beginning to think though that the internet is not always the best place to have that whinge. It´s just a bit too cold and impersonal and people find it too easy to bite back with force, and then it depends how sensitive you are as to how it then escalates.

You might occasionally hear me moaning about something in Spain (I´m still waiting for my damn Bicing card for example, and would like to strangle someone in their Admin dept), but most of the time I do it, it tends to be with Spanish friends who know I´m not an ungrateful guiri, and can maybe offer an opposing opinion without resorting to death threats, or worse… insulting my mum! jejeje

I guess you could say I´m a “closet complainer”

Comment from Brendan
Time: February 25, 2008, 2:18 pm

I agree with Pescador, Sandy and the others when they say you have to live ouside your country before you can see it’s problems. I’m from NZ and also have married an Espanola. We both have lived outside our respective countries and can both see there positives and negatives. It’s a shame that certain individuals get their handbags out and decide to take a few swings, these people are often on these forums to stir s**t for their own amusement and just remember, they’re also the kind of people you’d never associate with. Please don’t stoop to their level

Comment from Jonk
Time: February 25, 2008, 3:12 pm

A whinge done well is one of the most interesting things you can read.

Someone droning endlessly about how great a place is can be quite boring.

Errant in Iberia, which I’m reading now, shows that delight in sharing all the crazy travelling experiences. Overall you could take it negatively but in this case the love of Ben for his subject seeps through and it’s a very worthwhile read… Just like the blog

Comment from soy pescador
Time: February 25, 2008, 4:09 pm

Thank you Brendan , I think we share the same logic. I have a good mate from your home country that resides in SA at the moment and he agrees with me on this subject. By the way dont you miss the Rugby.
Up the BOKKE !!!!

Comment from Españolazo
Time: February 25, 2008, 4:54 pm

Nobody feels that this thing is totally absurd? Looks like some kind of Monty Python sketch…

Spaniard: You, fuckin’ guiri, you are so xenophobic! You always think you are the bes… qué asco!
Brit: Ha, look who’s talking! Shut up and shave your women moustache!
Spaniard: And what about yours? The british women are all like fat pink elephants! And I don’t want to talk about your food…
Brit:cheeky bastard, you still 25 years away from the civilization…

Finally, this conversation becomes www.notesfromspain.com

Saludos a todos!

Comment from Ben
Time: February 25, 2008, 5:07 pm

Thanks for all the comments on THE comment. I am reading them all, many have hit the nail on the head, a few are a little wide of the mark as per usual!

Parubin’s point 3 sums things up pretty well.

Comment from Edith
Time: February 25, 2008, 11:11 pm

@ Parubin,

Great, insightful, balanced comments, as always!

Comment from Dawn
Time: February 26, 2008, 8:45 am

“Pandilla de xenófobos….” I also wonder if this individual has lived outside of Spain for any length of time. I love it here, but I admit that, like my own country, it has its limits and down points. I, for one, am not going to miss his droning on about how guiris will never get the true essence of Spanish-ness, how Spain will forever be beyond the comprehension of anyone born north of the Cordillera Cantábria…. that we’re a bunch of idiots to think that we’ll ever get true insights into the way Spaniards really think….blah blah blah.

Opinions are like noses, and the fact that someone has a bigger one that mine doesn’t mean that it’s neccesarily better.

(And by the way, going back to that comment about racism in Formula One? Luis Aragonés is the intellectually challenged son of a sex trade worker who poops where his grandparents are buried.)

Comment from frank
Time: February 26, 2008, 10:08 am

“Nobody feels that this thing is totally absurd?”

Apparently, you do. But thanks for your valuable contribution to the thread, simply priceless, a gem.
Given your command of English and your opinions, you’re not a reincarnated Españolito are you?;-)

Comment from Españolazo
Time: February 26, 2008, 11:25 am

I know that my english is bad, sorry.
But I can’t tolerate you saying that I am españolito! Never! xp
I just wanted to show how easily this kind of national affairs go wild. I don’t think that spain is better than UK or viceversa.
Always, all these things turn into an absurd threadt.
Saludos.

Comment from Cannotbelieveit
Time: February 26, 2008, 12:32 pm

How childish and a storm in a teacup. Grow up all of you

Comment from OBL
Time: February 26, 2008, 1:55 pm

Well, I don’t think that the site is racist. But there is some tendency of cultural materialism comparing everything that really isn’t something to give points to. I hate these Anglo Top 10 Lists for every this and that.

I’m not British or American but have an Eastern European background. I lived as an expat in various coutries and to me there are some sorts of American or British folks that don’t realise how they provoke the locals. There are of course idiots from every country having no manners, are loud, rude and unattentive.

But there are Brits and US-Americans who often are the worst cursis. They don’t notice it for themselves and they even have a superficial good intention of becoming “adapted”, as they think. However, they are often overstyled, show their money (they earn a fortune in valuta with a normal job in their country), have their wives drive around in a posh 3 ton 4x where others take a motorbike, etc. They think the locals want their advice and they think all the staff in hotels, restaurants must serve them and smile friendly all the time.

Americans or British expect that they are serviced in a supermarket by happy smiling cashiers and that someone packs their stuff into the bags saying “thank you so much”. In other countries we see those employees as poor people who have a right to do their 8h job without pretending to smile and having a right to stand up to a customer and not as a service person for some paying master.

When I was in Thailand they had this public holiday where people shoot at each other with water pistols. However, this is somewhat for the children and older people like to receive some respect. However it were the Americans and Brits who buy the biggest water machine guns and harrass everyone aggressively, totally exaggerating and ignoring all sense for mutual respect and turning it into an action sport contest. I saw some maybe 20 yo unmature Brits who shot with their water canons at the hotel staff at the receiption. They did that repeatedly not realising that one of the women got nuts. I saw from the women’s moderate reaction and frozen smile immediately that she was pissed. But the Brits thought the women enjoys it and gave her more water shots, probably by static rule logic and their believe it is a service person who has to play to their tunes as the paying master. The receiption women suddenly started screaming and throwing with things. Now the Brits started laughing and continued showing total ignorance by mocking over the women and continue their water pristol battel at another place in the hotel.

Comment from frank
Time: February 26, 2008, 5:43 pm

Sorry OBL, you might possibly have had something valuable to say at the end of your post, but after a few lines, I gave up, found it incredibly boring.

Comment from Andreas
Time: February 27, 2008, 12:42 am

Frank, your answer just makes the OBL comment so true that is sad.

Comment from Palmer
Time: February 27, 2008, 1:26 am

OBL - I must admit I am absolutely mystified by your complaint…

…. “and they (the Americans and the British) think all the staff in hotels, restaurants must serve them and smile friendly all the time.”

And in the following paragraph you seem to imply that there is an adversarial (possibly, even abusive and oppresive relationship between customers and service providers.

As a 30 year veteran of the hotel and restaurant industry, I can tell you that this is the name of the game. Customers who are treated like human beings tend to return for more “good service” and thus allow the establishment (and by extension, the service person who works there) to continue making a living. The incentive of receiving a tip also helps. But as a manager in this industry, I can tell you that the best employee to have is one who would be genuinely happy to serve customers.

Comment from ValenciaSon
Time: February 27, 2008, 1:53 am

So when I go to Madrid this spring, should I leave my water gun in the US?

Comment from mark
Time: March 1, 2008, 6:03 am

es interesante que aprender que hay algunas personas de espania que son tan perjudicados como algún de inglés