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	<title>Comments on: Forget the Elections, how about Spanish Office Politics?</title>
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		<title>By: ElDuque</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-34656</link>
		<dc:creator>ElDuque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-34656</guid>
		<description>Having lived and worked here for over 10 years (and being half Spanish) one of the most important observations would have to be how work life in Spain is actually all about social interaction.

In order to get along and fit it at Spanish companies employees and managers group together, often going to lunch every day. This is where a lot of key relationships are made.
 Often those relationships play out in the workplace as well and it&#039;s quite normal for a manager who jumps to a competitor to take over &quot;los suyos&quot; to the new firm.  Like it or loath it that&#039;s the way it is hereand it can work to your advantage or work against you.
 I must say that foreigners, whilst treated with curiosity, are often made to feel excluded if on secondment or hired full time. This reflects in many ways Spanish society, whilst very friendly Spaniards are group animals (mum &amp; dad, brothers, long term friends) and do no easily accept outsiders into their inner circle unless introduced by a Spaniard.    Who said it was easy integrating into another culture ? Imagine what some of those poor illegal farm and construction workers must go through.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having lived and worked here for over 10 years (and being half Spanish) one of the most important observations would have to be how work life in Spain is actually all about social interaction.</p>
<p>In order to get along and fit it at Spanish companies employees and managers group together, often going to lunch every day. This is where a lot of key relationships are made.<br />
 Often those relationships play out in the workplace as well and it&#8217;s quite normal for a manager who jumps to a competitor to take over &#8220;los suyos&#8221; to the new firm.  Like it or loath it that&#8217;s the way it is hereand it can work to your advantage or work against you.<br />
 I must say that foreigners, whilst treated with curiosity, are often made to feel excluded if on secondment or hired full time. This reflects in many ways Spanish society, whilst very friendly Spaniards are group animals (mum &amp; dad, brothers, long term friends) and do no easily accept outsiders into their inner circle unless introduced by a Spaniard.    Who said it was easy integrating into another culture ? Imagine what some of those poor illegal farm and construction workers must go through&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewW</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33065</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33065</guid>
		<description>I have worked in a I+D department (of a large telecommunications company ;)) in Madrid for 6 months now and generally have the same observations.

Productivity is quite low I would say. Youtube has got to be the most visited website - even above Google, I swear! Even managers sit and play suduko for hours.

But when there is work to be done, we work hard, when there isn&#039;t, we go home early. I love the flexibility of being able to leave work and run a quick errand (you know, like eat breakfast, take a coffee, go to the bank :D). I think it improves moral alot, but perhaps a little too much, looking at productivity!

Generally I would say it is a much better atmosphere than in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked in a I+D department (of a large telecommunications company <img src='http://www.notesfromspain.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) in Madrid for 6 months now and generally have the same observations.</p>
<p>Productivity is quite low I would say. Youtube has got to be the most visited website &#8211; even above Google, I swear! Even managers sit and play suduko for hours.</p>
<p>But when there is work to be done, we work hard, when there isn&#8217;t, we go home early. I love the flexibility of being able to leave work and run a quick errand (you know, like eat breakfast, take a coffee, go to the bank <img src='http://www.notesfromspain.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> ). I think it improves moral alot, but perhaps a little too much, looking at productivity!</p>
<p>Generally I would say it is a much better atmosphere than in the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33033</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33033</guid>
		<description>On reflection I did generalise a bit regarding funcionarios. I know a few teachers who have a tough job, have to deal with a lot of crap (especially from the pupils) and are often &quot;de baja&quot; with stress.

Other differences people mention is that Spanish offices tend to have a stricter and more formal hierarchy. In Spain people fear the boss much more.

Also, in the UK it is common for people to earn a living contracting. You might even find some technical expert working as a contractor being paid more than their project manager, simply because their skills are in short supply. Apparently that would never happen in Spain. In fact, it is a pain for me that in Spain it seems only TEFLers can make a career out of contracting - it just doesn&#039;t happen in other sectors. Spanish employers expect you to hang around companies for years on end. In the UK it is more acceptable to change every 2 or 3 years, especially if it means you&#039;ve built a varied CV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On reflection I did generalise a bit regarding funcionarios. I know a few teachers who have a tough job, have to deal with a lot of crap (especially from the pupils) and are often &#8220;de baja&#8221; with stress.</p>
<p>Other differences people mention is that Spanish offices tend to have a stricter and more formal hierarchy. In Spain people fear the boss much more.</p>
<p>Also, in the UK it is common for people to earn a living contracting. You might even find some technical expert working as a contractor being paid more than their project manager, simply because their skills are in short supply. Apparently that would never happen in Spain. In fact, it is a pain for me that in Spain it seems only TEFLers can make a career out of contracting &#8211; it just doesn&#8217;t happen in other sectors. Spanish employers expect you to hang around companies for years on end. In the UK it is more acceptable to change every 2 or 3 years, especially if it means you&#8217;ve built a varied CV.</p>
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		<title>By: Pepino</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33032</link>
		<dc:creator>Pepino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33032</guid>
		<description>@Graeme.  I&#039;ll cross &quot;Funcionario&quot; off my list of dream jobs then :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Graeme.  I&#8217;ll cross &#8220;Funcionario&#8221; off my list of dream jobs then <img src='http://www.notesfromspain.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33030</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33030</guid>
		<description>Back in the UK I remember working in one of those offices where people took a curious sort of pride in the fact that they had no life outside of work. Someone would talk about a visit they had made to an office somewhere &quot;where everyone just disappeared at 5 o&#039; clock&quot; as if this was somehow a mortal sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the UK I remember working in one of those offices where people took a curious sort of pride in the fact that they had no life outside of work. Someone would talk about a visit they had made to an office somewhere &#8220;where everyone just disappeared at 5 o&#8217; clock&#8221; as if this was somehow a mortal sin.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33029</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33029</guid>
		<description>@ Pepino

I suspect you&#039;ll need more than the Catalan. First you&#039;ll have to get your qualifications &quot;homologado&quot; which means that photocopies of them lie on someone&#039;s desk for about 15 months before being approved or rejected. Then you spend half the rest of your life doing exams even if you&#039;re only interested in being deputy chief photocopier in the department of qualification homologaci&#243;n. So it will take you a while to get to the point where you can get that nice, secure job. I&#039;ve worked in private companies where they have nice timetables too, the first job I ever did in Spain was at Gas Natural and they were working the jornada intensiva, so after 3 p.m. I often found myself the only person in the office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pepino</p>
<p>I suspect you&#8217;ll need more than the Catalan. First you&#8217;ll have to get your qualifications &#8220;homologado&#8221; which means that photocopies of them lie on someone&#8217;s desk for about 15 months before being approved or rejected. Then you spend half the rest of your life doing exams even if you&#8217;re only interested in being deputy chief photocopier in the department of qualification homologaci&oacute;n. So it will take you a while to get to the point where you can get that nice, secure job. I&#8217;ve worked in private companies where they have nice timetables too, the first job I ever did in Spain was at Gas Natural and they were working the jornada intensiva, so after 3 p.m. I often found myself the only person in the office.</p>
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		<title>By: Pepino</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33025</link>
		<dc:creator>Pepino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33025</guid>
		<description>Bill, you&#039;re so right with what you have said about the public sector.  I have Funcionario friends who work amazingly favourable hours, with working conditions that I&#039;d kill for.  Now, if only I could speak Catalan!  I&#039;m starting learning a bit at the moment, so maybe one day I&#039;ll bag myself a cushy job in the civil service too. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, you&#8217;re so right with what you have said about the public sector.  I have Funcionario friends who work amazingly favourable hours, with working conditions that I&#8217;d kill for.  Now, if only I could speak Catalan!  I&#8217;m starting learning a bit at the moment, so maybe one day I&#8217;ll bag myself a cushy job in the civil service too. <img src='http://www.notesfromspain.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33021</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33021</guid>
		<description>I work as a software developer, and have worked in Spanish companies for over a year. In the first company we regularly had to work through the night to meet deadlines, and generally put in at least 12 hours a day (even though we only got paid for a standard 37 hour week). We got promised compensation for those extra hours, but I didn&#039;t hang around and moved after 10 months. In fact I was considering either switching my career to teaching since I figured there was no point living in Madrid if I never left the office, or contracting back in the UK where you at least get paid decent money.

My colleagues told me those were typical working hours for a Spanish company in the IT sector, so I went through a real career re-evaluation stage.

However a friend of mine who is also a programmer says he has never worked more than 7 hours a day in his current (Spanish) company. They have an obligatory half our coffee break on top of a two hour lunch break, and they lock the door at 7pm so everyone has to leave.

I now work for a company where people get to work between 9 and 9.30 and leave between 7 and 8. We have occasionally had to work the odd weekend. That is pretty much in line with my experiences working in the UK.

When you compare this to the world of the funcionario in Spain, where he working day often involves reading the paper it is frustrating. I get the impression of a private sector that is often working itself into the ground to support a public sector where most people are in a state of semi-retirement. This attracts more and more people to the public sector, even though it doesn&#039;t contribute to the economy. However that might just be me being biased.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work as a software developer, and have worked in Spanish companies for over a year. In the first company we regularly had to work through the night to meet deadlines, and generally put in at least 12 hours a day (even though we only got paid for a standard 37 hour week). We got promised compensation for those extra hours, but I didn&#8217;t hang around and moved after 10 months. In fact I was considering either switching my career to teaching since I figured there was no point living in Madrid if I never left the office, or contracting back in the UK where you at least get paid decent money.</p>
<p>My colleagues told me those were typical working hours for a Spanish company in the IT sector, so I went through a real career re-evaluation stage.</p>
<p>However a friend of mine who is also a programmer says he has never worked more than 7 hours a day in his current (Spanish) company. They have an obligatory half our coffee break on top of a two hour lunch break, and they lock the door at 7pm so everyone has to leave.</p>
<p>I now work for a company where people get to work between 9 and 9.30 and leave between 7 and 8. We have occasionally had to work the odd weekend. That is pretty much in line with my experiences working in the UK.</p>
<p>When you compare this to the world of the funcionario in Spain, where he working day often involves reading the paper it is frustrating. I get the impression of a private sector that is often working itself into the ground to support a public sector where most people are in a state of semi-retirement. This attracts more and more people to the public sector, even though it doesn&#8217;t contribute to the economy. However that might just be me being biased.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrmark</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33016</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33016</guid>
		<description>In my limited experience the Spanish work just as hard as other nationalities - in fact I remember the Spanish temping with me at a food factory in Leicester were the best of the bunch. Nowadays it may be a generational  thing - recently I worked with some Brit temps - and the youngsters would spend all day on Facebook or chatrooms. Work seemed at times to be an alien concept to one or two of those particular youngsters, although to be fair, once they realised that their elders were harder-working , they then knuckled down.
As regards productiivty, I&#039;ve always been impressed with the speed of a Spanish barman who can serve up 3 cafes, 4 beers (with free canapes) and a whisky in the time it takes a barperson in a British Weatherspoons to enter the order in on the cash register.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my limited experience the Spanish work just as hard as other nationalities &#8211; in fact I remember the Spanish temping with me at a food factory in Leicester were the best of the bunch. Nowadays it may be a generational  thing &#8211; recently I worked with some Brit temps &#8211; and the youngsters would spend all day on Facebook or chatrooms. Work seemed at times to be an alien concept to one or two of those particular youngsters, although to be fair, once they realised that their elders were harder-working , they then knuckled down.<br />
As regards productiivty, I&#8217;ve always been impressed with the speed of a Spanish barman who can serve up 3 cafes, 4 beers (with free canapes) and a whisky in the time it takes a barperson in a British Weatherspoons to enter the order in on the cash register.</p>
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		<title>By: Pepino</title>
		<link>http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-33011</link>
		<dc:creator>Pepino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.notesfromspain.com/2008/03/11/spanish-office-politics/#comment-33011</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t doubt those productivity figures, but I think they are perhaps being dragged down by certain industries that are more susceptible take a productivity hit when employees are stop/starting and taking long breaks etc, even if they work until late.  But in my industry, I&#039;ve been truly impressed by the dedication and hard work that my colleagues put into their jobs.  Yes, they disappear for long periods midday, but they somehow get through their work, and then some!  When I compare them to many of my old UK colleagues (who treat their jobs as &quot;something to do&quot; between the hours of 9 and 5) I think your average Spaniard works hard but, crucially, knows when to play.  As I say though, I&#039;m centered on an industry that perhaps is less forgiving to laziness of any kind in the working day (however the hours may be structured).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t doubt those productivity figures, but I think they are perhaps being dragged down by certain industries that are more susceptible take a productivity hit when employees are stop/starting and taking long breaks etc, even if they work until late.  But in my industry, I&#8217;ve been truly impressed by the dedication and hard work that my colleagues put into their jobs.  Yes, they disappear for long periods midday, but they somehow get through their work, and then some!  When I compare them to many of my old UK colleagues (who treat their jobs as &#8220;something to do&#8221; between the hours of 9 and 5) I think your average Spaniard works hard but, crucially, knows when to play.  As I say though, I&#8217;m centered on an industry that perhaps is less forgiving to laziness of any kind in the working day (however the hours may be structured).</p>
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