I think each individual is responsible for their own actions.
Obviously, just because the sun is shining and people are enjoying a fresh beer on a terrace somewhere, this does not mean that life will be easier.

What can I say, we are all human, not perfect, and we make mistakes.

I do not share the view of going to a country with such high social differences and such low social policy in general, as going a step up in personal comfort.
Personally, I would never have set a foot in Spain, had it not been for a hefty pay rise and a pretty nice job.

But, this is just my point of view and I cannot judge whomever moves to Spain thinking life will be easier.
Who knows? Maybe they will end up being right: our experiences are all different in the end.

In the same way, although I respect whomever does it, I cannot share the view of someone who buys a flat or a house in Spain, thinking prices will pick up after the crisis.

First of all, the crisis in Spain has only just started.

Second of all, with the quality of materials used in many modern buildings, I would hate to see what they will look like in 15 years time and how much money will have to be spent in refurbishing.

And finally, bearing in mind mortgages last on average 26 years, combined with a scarily tree-shaped demographic pyramid, someone please explain me how many people will be left in Spain to buy old second-hand houses in 2034…

Not to mention the effects the much-feared global warming may have on Spanish sea resorts (although this may kick in a bit later, which is great for us, but not so for our children…).

This is just my point of view: I sincerely hope I am wrong.

What we have been discussing is this comment of Ben’s:

>>And I can only imagine what the Brits’ declining faith in the Spanish property market will do the country’s already troubled construction industy… especially since most Spaniards have given up on investing in new coastal/second home properties as well

And the answer is “not very much.” Even on the costas, non-Spanish property buyers (including in “Spanish” what Parubin calls “immigrant”) are a minority, and British buyers only the largest part of that minority. Yes, the Spanish property bubble has burst, no, it hasn’t got very much to do with Brits. There are far more Spaniards than Brits with holiday homes even in Benidorm. Polaris World, for example, for all its half-English name, is a Spanish affair and by far the majority of its customers have always been Spaniards. Except for a few urbanizations which have been sold exclusively abroad and become ghettos of Brits (or Dutchmen or Russians or Finns or whatever), the Spanish property boom was fuelled by internal demand, and its collapse is the result of reduction in that internal demand. The downward house-price spiral will end when the Spanish economy and Spanish consumer confidence touch bottom. The distinction between the costas and the rest of Spain is irrelevant.

You keep talking about Spain as a whole, and I have made it abundantly clear that my comments are confined to the costas. If you think they don’t have a big problem on the costas, dream on!

La crisis en la construcción ha llegado con más rapidez y fuerza de lo que el sector preveí­a, especialmente en el segmento de la segunda vivienda en la costa, donde la situación es de “parada total” de ventas, según Violeta Aragón, gerente de la Asociación de Promotores y Constructores de Málaga, la provincia más afectada por el frenazo. “En la segunda residencia está todo paradí­simo y en primera vivienda, aproximadamente las ventas han caí­do un 50%”, estima Aragón, que ya habla de crisis sin paliativos.

En los últimos tres años en Andalucí­a se ha producido un stock de 89.700 casas que todaví­a no han encontrado comprador y algunos promotores especialmente acuciados por la parálisis han comenzado a ponerlas en el mercado a precio de coste.

As much as that figure might have some relevance on certain tourist-guettoes, its influence on the whole of the housing market is very limited. Prices are not affected overall, because of Brits stopping to buy.

The biggest foreign buyers.”

What else? Given that the article is about foreigners buying in Spain, of course I’m on about foreign buyers. And I even confined it to the costas. But thanks to Pararubin, I now know that the biggest buyers overall all are the Spanish, very grateful for that info, that would never have occurred to me! And as I was talking specifically about the costas, I have not seen all the immigrants owning property there that he talks about.

The biggest foreign buyers. I’m more or less sure that the biggest buyers overall have always been Spaniards themselves, including on the costas (though I can quote no evidence off the top of my head and would have to check if challenged).

John Ross’ comment is abosutely right. The British buyers do not even come second. The biggest buyers in Spain (by large) are the Spaniards. Close to 90% of the number of new buildings in Spain have been bought by Spaniards in the last years. Brits buyers have made about 2,5% of the total sum, which I reckon is even less than homes bought by immigrants.

Depending on when they bought their property, a Brit wanting to sell their Spanish real state can offset part of their loss with the exchange rate. The Euro has gained purchasing power against the Pound. More than 20% in the last few years.

I think it’s important to understand that the Spanish and British housing markets are radically different. Spaniards have never really had our concept of a “housing ladder,” with its “starter homes” or “first-time buyers.” Spaniards buy a house or flat before they get married or soon after, and live there more or less for ever, no matter how much their family may swell or shrink thereafter. And they don’t speculate at this level, they invest in the proper sense of the word: when they buy a second home, it’s because they have spare money and they want to put it to use. They may buy a flat as a holiday home for themselves or to let out, but it’s to use, not with the idea of selling and making a killing in the immediate future. In other words, if Spaniards have stopped buying second homes (and they have), it isn’t so much because of price trends or faith in the future as because there just isn’t as much spare money around – it’s belt-tightening time.

@Marcin
I nearly missed this, as I quite agree with your general drift:
>> I guess it’s down to the british obsession with OWNING a house.

The Spanish rental sector is in fact much smaller than the British one, something like 5 or at most 10 per cent depending on who you believe. A Spaniard’s home is even more his castillo than an Englishman’s. It’s to do with a real fear of the real poverty which Brits don’t have because however awful post-war Britain was, it was only ever a temporary situation there, something to grit your teeth and endure. Here it was more terrible.

@ Frank
>> Traditionally the biggest buyers, certainly on the costas, have been the Brits

The biggest foreign buyers. I’m more or less sure that the biggest buyers overall have always been Spaniards themselves, including on the costas (though I can quote no evidence off the top of my head and would have to check if challenged).

I read through the Guardian article that Ben mentioned, but when you actually look at the figures you start to get a different picture.

In the first example, the retirees from the UK bought their property in 2004 for 325,000 euros. The exchange rate then was around 1.5 euros to the pound, which means they bought the property for about £216 grand. They are now asking for 299,000 euros, but the exchange rate is now around 1.27 euros to the pound, which is the equivalent to about £235,000. It is a similar story with the other properties mentioned in the article, so things are not as bad as the article makes out for Brits who have bought in Spain during the last few years.

I also think some of these stupid overseas property programmes that are regularly shown in the UK have a lot to answer for. The presenters sometimes say things like “prices have gone up x percent in the last x years, so this is a great area in which to invest”. On one of the programmes the prat of a presenter (I can’t remember his name) said of Istanbul, “prices have risen x percent in the last x years, therefore if you buy a property worth y amount, in y years time it will be worth z’.