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ejl
30 Dec 08 at 9:40 pm
Ben
I think you are lost in Iberia. Go back to basics. The free podcasts were truly great especially the first series. There is too much of an overt commercial slant on your venture now. To give 10% of profits to UNICEF is very worthy but not as a means of trying to earn more revenue!
frank
30 Dec 08 at 11:49 pm
Agree. I pop in rarely now to have a quick look in the forum, but that’s about it nowadays, the site has gotten far too commercially oriented for me.
Ben
31 Dec 08 at 12:00 am
Wow, I’m sorry you guys feel like that. The idea that I should ‘go back to basics’ and only produce free podcasts is great, but then I’d have to go back to my old jobs and wouldn’t have time to do work that I really enjoy and which I hope genuinely helps and inspires those that want, for example, to learn Spanish with us. We chose to follow this more independent work route which does by necessity mean occasionally working on projects that will be for sale and not always free, how else would we pay the mortgage. In any case you’ll be glad to hear that there is a lot more “free” stuff coming in the New Year, so stick around if you like.
As for the UNICEF point – we had decided to give 500 euros from the business to charity this year no matter what, but by tying it into the sale, we were able to add 1,000 more. Any revenue increase also meant donation increase, the idea was as simple as that.
Gary
31 Dec 08 at 1:01 am
Ben has long been pestered to come up with a sequel to his successful autobiographical work Errant in Iberia – which incidentally has always been for purchase. Surely it must be okay to mention this on the websites that he owns and manages.
After all, Google isn’t a philanthropic search engine company -they sell advertising!!! The search bit is free and you can chose to ignore the adverts from which they make an absolute fortune unless you are particularly anally retentive.
NB there are NO Google ads on NFS or NIS!!
I preferred it when San Miguel was 13 pesetas a bottle and all tapas were all free – but I dont begrudge the bar owners and their families making a living…
I presume that the dissenting voices above would prefer JK Rowling to give her next book away, the BBC to cancel the license fee and there be no advertising on any channel, all West End theatre tickets to be complimentary, FA cup final tickets to be given away with Walkers crisps, return flights to spain to be for 1p or less, and petrol to be on tap at the end of every street corner on a help yourself basis.
There is an enormous and entirely laudible body of work which is given away for nothing on the NIS site and the forums are still the forums – no subscription required.
None of the items for sale are compulsory purchases. Though there is less output on the NFS blog now, I presume because there is less time because of the new arrival and what time there is needs to be prioritised to put food in his mouth and keep a roof over his head.
There comes a point where a hobby becomes a business and at that point it needs to kiss unashamed freeloaders goodbye, maybe all pro and semi-pro photographers should put all their work on line for us all to download, print and hang on our walls, eh Frank?
Thinking positively – all in all two miserable, dissenting voices maketh not a jot of difference and in marketing terms two in tens of thousands is entirely insignificant. Invariably the demographic will change as the something for nothing crowd move on to pastures new ans are replaced by people that dont begrudge paying a reasonable fee for a quality product.
The free stuff is still free and, with due deference to Eban Pagan, I am sure more free stuff will keep coming….
John(jkslouth)
31 Dec 08 at 1:45 am
@ Ben, I don’t see why you should apologise for earning a living.
@ Gary, Rather neatly summed up I thought.
I joined the site with the intention of buying the worksheets and I have. I was never under any illusion that the site was simply a freebie, although I suspect if you can’t afford the worksheets you still get a hell of a lot out of the podcasts and forums.
Looking forward to learning more in 2009.
ValenciaSon
31 Dec 08 at 4:20 am
Work product that uniquely meets the needs of many who are so inspired, should without shame, generate revenue. What is so predatory about that?
Ray Campbell
31 Dec 08 at 6:10 am
I miss the podcasts. They had a wonderful sweet vibe to them. They were different and unique.
I’ve got nothing against Tony Robbins, Napoleon Hill, et al., but I would tend to agree that it doesn’t fit the vibe (or consistent with the brand, if you will) of this venture. We all have our guilty pleasures that we don’t necessarily discuss in public.
All that said, giving 10 percent of the proceeds to charity is a very nice thing to do.
Ray Campbell
31 Dec 08 at 6:16 am
One more small point – of course Ben has to make a living, and no one should be begrudge him that.
On the other hand, one of the reasons this venture has succeeded to the point where it can be a living is the rather wonderful vibe and feel. As a business matter, you don’t want to commoditize the business, which could happen if you lose that vibe. There are a zillion places to learn Spanish and to learn about Spain. There aren’t that many places to learn Spanish or learn about Spain in the company of really delightful people.
All of which is to say, don’t be ashamed to make a living, but keep being who you are, because I think the likeability of who you are is one of the reasons it all works.
BTW, I would run Google ads on the Notes From Spain blog. And I would have a Google search box. Why not?
AndrewW
31 Dec 08 at 11:35 am
“There comes a point where a hobby becomes a business and at that point it needs to kiss unashamed freeloaders goodbye..”
So the people who don’t pay for the free podcasts are “unashamed freeloaders”? NIS wouldn’t even be a profitible were it not for the free podcasts. I highly doubt it would be so popular as it is now if from day one they charged for everything.
You should be glad that people go to NIS because it’s free – it’s those people that turn into paying customers.
bill (Legazpi)
31 Dec 08 at 12:13 pm
@Gary – well said!
This site is remarkable in how it keeps advertising to a minimum. I can live with the occasional bit of self promotion on Ben’s part because I can see he’s trying out new business ideas. Some of them might not be of much interest to me, but maybe he’ll hit on something I like and which I’m willing to pay for. The fact that he is trying to build up a business that ultimately depends on the quality of the services it provides should be encouraged, not criticised.
Besides, Ben has to keep trying (and promoting) new projects or this site will go stale.
Gary
31 Dec 08 at 12:27 pm
@ AndrewW – no, no, your missing the point – the podcasts are offered freely so that people can enjoy them, the unashamed freeloaders are those that persistently whine that everything else should be free and that Ben should not introduce new materials for profit.
I absolutely agree with your final comment and whats more I support the site by giving freely of my time as a moderator and contributing articles.
@ Legazpi – absolutely, without new material the site would stagnate – even as we speak I am saving up in case one day Ben publishes the ultimate guide to cracking the sibjunctive!!
Ben
31 Dec 08 at 12:41 pm
@”You should be glad that people go to NIS because it’s free – it’s those people that turn into paying customers.” – Quite right! And I never said I would stop providing the best quality free stuff I can.
We have produced over 250 free podcasts in the last 2 or 3 years, that have been downloaded over 5 million times, as well as countless videos and blog posts, all I hope with interesting, useful information in them that help others learn more about Spanish or Spain.
Whatever projects or products we work on in the future, there will always be an underlying base of the best quality free stuff we can produce and share, I absolutely believe that is the best way to work in this day and age.
There will always be people that get annoyed that there is material that has to be paid for, but I’m not going to get too bothered about them, because I know again that we give so much great free material, and that our paid materials represent the best possible value we can give.
As for the reference above to Tony Robbins and Hill (recent ‘personal development’ posts)… yes, new ideas have been cropping up on the site recently, but they reflect very much the things that are inspiring me at the moment, and what I always have a tendency and desire to do is to pass on information and ideas that I find inspiring in the hope that others might too. Obviously these won’t always fit into the ‘Spain’ theme, and therein lies a constant dilemma, whether to continue to communicate these new themes here, or start up new side projects elsewhere… I am constantly interested in new areas and ideas, and judging be the number of comments new themes can generate, it seems others are too.
Right, back to work for me, 4 new projects on the go
Keep the comments coming!
ValenciaSon
31 Dec 08 at 3:50 pm
@ Ben: I think it is appropriate for you to veer off spanish topics every once in a while. This blog is really an echo of your experience and thoughts while in Spain. You and Spain are not monolithic entities and so we should expect a broad spectrum of topics, otherwise, if you confine yourself to expressing all things spanish, it really isn’t a blog anymore, is it?
Ben
31 Dec 08 at 4:32 pm
Part of the issue is that our lives have changed hugely in the last few months with the wait for, and arrival of, the baby. We no longer travel as much as we did around Spain so the travel podcasts have obviously stopped. At the same time, my focus has shifted slightly, yet I still have a huge urge to write about and share what I’m passionate about right now, and this seems the logical place to do it as it has always been my outlet, so to speak. That means the blog will shift focus too unless I only post less frequently here about Spain things, and start writing about the new stuff elsewhere… it’s always been an issue…
Justin
31 Dec 08 at 5:12 pm
I find it amazing that people can complain about you earning money! I get it all the time too. Unfortunately I rely on advertising for my site and there’s very little way around it as most people are used to the facilities on my site being free so asking them to pay for them would never work.
We are a team of 5 and we all have families to feed. That’s the reality of it.
I think what you have done with your business is great so don’t stop what you’re doing, just do more of it and keep smiling. That’s what attracts us to your site!
All the best to you and your family and I wish you a very happy new year.
Anwar
31 Dec 08 at 5:53 pm
@Ben: Congratulations to you and Marina on earning a living doing something that you love. I wish we could all say the same.
@Gary: Right on, brother!
@ValenciaSon: Can I get an Amen?
@bill: Couldn’t agree with you more.
I also miss the advanced Spanish podcasts as well as the Notes from Spain podcasts, and while I haven’t bought any of the transcripts or worksheets, I have bought Ben’s book.
I would be willing to pay for a really well done weekly podcast for advanced speakers focused exclusively on vocabulary and expressions. Maybe it could be called something like “Notes in Spanish: Super Vocabulary” What do you think, Ben?
James
31 Dec 08 at 10:16 pm
I have to say that I agree with some of the comments made above and am a very glad to see that others are also somewhat disheartened by change of emphasis of Notes..
I have been a fan of this site and the sister site for sometime now. However since the survey (which for me was the turning point) I have really started to tune out. I should say up front that I do appreciate that this is a business for Ben and Marina and they need to live from it and provide a home for Leo and the free/pay debate does not interest me greatly.
However, there are a couple of points which have really put me off of late.
Firstly, the massive increase in marketing I fell has really undermined the vibe of the site and seems slightly odd to me given the humble and honest way in which it has worked over previous years. Whereas before I really felt this was a work of passion where people participating on the site and in the forums, etc. were valued as individuals, it now seems as though everyone is seen as a potential client. Ben and Marina produce some excellent quality products, but over marketing and hype only leads to disappointment.
I’m also not convinced that Notes in Spanish should be focussing so much on the beginner audience. For me the value of Ben and Marina’s work is in the podcasts which provide an invaluable opportunity to practice listening skills. The volume of material out there for beginners is massive, very well organised and supported by major corporations. I just find it hard to believe that Notes can compete in this market and provide real value to beginners. Sure there is benefit in Real Spanish phrases and vocab (which Ben and Marina do excellently) but by and large this is something that will benefit the more advanced listeners and I believe should be oriented in that direction. Where Notes in Spanish does provide genuine value is in the listening practice and the interaction between Ben and Marina; this is what brought myself and a number of others into the site and I believe sidelining this would be a real mistake.
Likewise the decision to move the forum to the backwater of the “support” page really surprises me. The forum is a real asset to the site but by hiding it away and taking the link out of the front page, this must surely be choking the number of new visitors and contributors.
Ok. Well like I said I was a big fan of this site and I still hugely admire Ben and Marina, I just hope that some return to basics might be on the cards in 2009!
Gato
1 Jan 09 at 1:36 am
Ben,
You just do what you want. After all, it has done you proud thus far as your success with this site demonstrates. There will always be some that feel uneasy about things changing (as they see them) but you can’t let them put you off – go with your instincts. You may make the odd mistake but that’s fine; rather that than not try at all.
And don’t worry about Frank. I seem to remember him about ad-revenue during a Firefox 3 adblocker discussion.
Leslie
2 Jan 09 at 1:48 am
Ben,
I think you’ve got your head screwed on correctly if you earn your living from what you enjoy and others enjoy. I’ll be among the first in line to buy the sequel. I think you’ve created a great online community. I, for one, hope you make a mint. I don’t think you should feel in anyway apologetic about your success. All the best in 2009!
Stevem
3 Jan 09 at 12:34 am
I think James said it well, but I would like to echo a few things. I think the podcasts you used to make were incredible. Not just because they were free, but because you and Marina are great together. Ben is always entertaining and Marina plays a good “straight man” correcting Ben etc. The intermediate/advanced podcasts really helped me improve my Spanish. Also, I think the best ones were made when Marina still worked outside the home and would bring in ideas from conversations with friends at lunch etc. When I listened to the podcasts I felt like I was out for dinner with friends. You did a good job of staying away from the “10 things you have to know about Spanish in order not to sound like an idiot” products you see on so many other language learning sites. You had a different, fresh approach and it worked well. There are so many intermediate Spanish speakers out there that need something enjoyable to listen to. I realize you need to make a living but it was too bad it could not go on.
Of course, I love capitalism and am an admirer of Tony Robbins, Napoleon Hill and Dan Kennedy. If you started new podcasts Marina would only want to talk about babies and Ben would only want to talk about money/self help. With the baby the “young carefree couple about town” days are gone.
Here is an idea. Find a guy in his 20’s who moved down to Madrid from England and has met a Spanish woman and have them do the podcasts. Sign them into a long term contract to release under your notesinspanish label with strict five year no compete clause. You could become the Berry Gordy Jr. of podcasting.
ValenciaSon
3 Jan 09 at 1:23 am
Ben has already covered the young couple who lives in Madrid angle. He hasn’t covered the young family who lives in Madrid angle. Plenty of potential material there. Life goes on, Ben and Marina (and Leo) included.
pedroenespana
3 Jan 09 at 12:52 pm
I feel the site has lost a bit of direction. I can’t really say that I’m too bothered about sounding “cool” in spanish. I did like the podcasts with Ben & Marina and the guest speakers but get the impression that a lot of people listened to them without buying the worksheets which doesn’t pay the rent. How about doing a shorter “taster” podcast and then expanding on the topic with a premium rated poscast that people had to pay for along with the worksheets. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a great site, particularly the forum and the commercial aspect doesn’t bother me at all.
Ben
3 Jan 09 at 5:02 pm
@Stevem “With the baby the “young carefree couple about town” days are gone” – Madre mia, I didn’t realise it was the end of the line!!! Your comment (which certainly made me laugh!) is addressed in today’s podcast
Link: http://tinyurl.com/88m5mf
Edith
3 Jan 09 at 6:08 pm
I agree entirely with Gary’s first post, there isn’t much more I would like to add except for one thing: I think it’s great you have been able to turn your hobby into a career, and to tell you the truth I’m a bit envious about that, too!
Keep up the good work Ben and Marina.
Ben
3 Jan 09 at 6:28 pm
Thanks Edith!
Edith
3 Jan 09 at 6:51 pm
@ Ben,
in Holland we have got a saying which roughly translates as follows: ‘the best steering men live on land’, which means negative advice often comes from people who are not in your position.
Edith
3 Jan 09 at 6:58 pm
I meant ‘steersmen’.
ValenciaSon
3 Jan 09 at 10:19 pm
In the US, they are called “Monday Morning Quaterbacks”.