[rant]
Now we have a baby in tow we obviously need to find places to eat that are non-smoking. This is hard.
OK, there are options available via a quick search at www.nofumadores.org, but if we try to think of favourite old restaurants that are smoke free, we can only think of four. Two are pretty expensive for a weekday lunch, one is completely over the other side of town, and the last is a wonderful Hare Krishna center where you sit on the floor and eat rather delicious Tali, but again, quite a metro ride away.
So come on Spain, SORT IT OUT!!! If the French, the English, Irish and Italians can all do without smoking in restaurants and bars, why can’t Spain? In brand/image terms, this smoking thing is going to make your country start looking pretty intelectually and sociologically backward pretty soon.
Yes I know you passed some half-arsed ‘less-smoking’ law a few years ago, but it only applies to places over 100m sq., of which there are about 3 in Spain, and everyone ignores the legislation anyway!
I also realise that at street level, hardly anyone really gives a damn. A friend told me the other day about going into a bar with 3 sets of parents, each with small children in prams/strollers, and ALL of the parents smoking! The smoke was so bad that my friends left the bar! We see parents breathing smoke over their kids every single day, so this is not an isolated, or surprising, case…
So come on Spain, work on your self-image AND your nation’s health a bit, and get with the damn program. Look at the French! No one smokes like the French (except the Spanish), yet they have done it – 100% non-smoking bars and restaurants now a pleasure to be in, a pleasure to enjoy that wonderful food in. Spain Spain Spain. How long til you sort this out?
[/rant]
Feel better now. Still can’t find anywhere smoke-free and local for lunch though. Grrrrrrrrr 
Parubin
23 Jan 09 at 4:29 pm
I entirely agree with this entry but I forsee no further smoking legislation in the near future in Spain.
Bars and restaurants argue (constistenly or not) that the smoking ban will reduce their income and will make the suffer economic-wise.
With the current economic outlook, it’d look very odd for any administration to pass a law that could even make more family business shut down.
Unluckily it seems that we’ll have to wait a little longer untill wes see 100% smokefree restaurants and bars in Spain. Untill then, the way around it are restaurants that have outside patios and terraces (since I live in the Canaries these are easy to find all year long, but that is not the case in wintertime Madrid).
Sara
23 Jan 09 at 4:57 pm
Hear, hear! Since it’s a “new” thing to not smoke in bars, why don’t Spaniards love it?
I hate having someone standing next to me at the bar and putting their cigarette in my face. Gross!
Watch/listen to these adds about “passing gas”:
http://www.dontpassgas.org/psa.swf
They’ve been on the radio for a few months here in the US.
Jmbrow29
23 Jan 09 at 6:41 pm
I totally agree. My sister suffers from asthma and it flares up easily in the presence of cigarette/cigar smoke. When my town passed a smoking ban for all restaurants, it was so lovely. We could finally go out to dinner and enjoy a meal without worrying about a hospitalization ensuing. Here in the US, the laws vary from city to city but it seems (and I hope) that it is catching on.
@Sara: I haven’t seen nor heard those PSAs but they were hilarious and effective. Thanks for the laugh.
luis peralta
23 Jan 09 at 6:41 pm
Take a look at http://11870.com/c/restaurantes/zona-no-fumadores/es/es
Still in an inmature state, but it will get better with time.
I want a healthy social life
23 Jan 09 at 6:50 pm
At last!!!
I am not alone in my rant. I moved to Spain 3 years ago from the uk, for the climate and better health due to allergies and asthma. However, I have been most shocked by the number of people who smoke and especially smoking around babies and children. We know the dangers and yet people still do it. This is not just selfish, it is cruelty to babies and children and abusive to those who choose not to inhale the cancerous and filthy fumes.
I am compassionate about family businesses reliant on the smoking and drinking lifestyle, but surely the long term health and well being of a country is more important. Sure transition will be difficult, but as I think we are aware the transition will take time, so perhaps those with businesses reliant on smokers could begin planning how to manage the change that will and must come, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Why should non-smokers be denied a social life – allergic to smoke, I have just one local restaurant that I can go to and it’s too expensive for most friends to go to on a regular basis.
A point to consider; we hear many UK pubs are closing each week and assume it to be a result of the smoking ban, but the truth is more likely to be because of the economic situation in the world. France, the UK, Ireland have done it, so yes, come on Spain, be intelligent, look after the health of your nation and implement a no smoking ban in all restaurants and bars. Most people, even smokers don’t like the smell of smoke when eating, so can we at least begin with a total ban on all places where food is served.
Tom
23 Jan 09 at 6:59 pm
Had a lovely smoky lunch after work today (gotta love the jornada intensiva). But the menu place we went to also has a (much larger) non-smoking area… which seems pretty common around here.
Enforcing the law properly would probably suit everyone (not just those who don’t smoke).
Sam Lown
23 Jan 09 at 9:57 pm
Starbucks have sandwiches and can heat things up, its about the only place I know in Madrid where you can grab a coffee and not suffer the smoke. Its no surprise then that it fills with prams and kids on the weekend.
I had a rather heated argument a couple weeks back over this article (Spanish):
http://www.pymesyautonomos.com/2009/01/05-la-ley-antitabaco-en-aragon-una-vuelta-de-tuerca-mas
The guy, quite obviously a smoker, wasn’t as impressed as myself to hear that the Aragon regional government are considering banning smoking in all public places! (I seriously hope they do, to at least set an example for Madrid to follow!)
Cheers, sam
ValenciaSon
24 Jan 09 at 9:20 am
The cigarette smoke is what I dread the most when I go to Spain. My state has banned it (Maryland) and restaurants and bars appear unaffected. Virginia, a bordering state, has not banned smoking in restaurants and bars but yet there is no grand shift restaurant loyalty from Maryland to Virginia. The more smoking is banned, the less smokers there are and the less smoking, smokers do. I know Spain is not afraid to be legislatively progressive and pro-active, why not apply that same chutzpah towards a smoking ban?
mandyv
24 Jan 09 at 4:18 pm
Smoke-haters have not been banned from investing their own money into smoke-free venues, have they?
I love Spain, I do not go on holiday to intolerant Countries. I would not have a holiday in my own Country if it was free full board for a fortnight. That is my choice.
The UK is losing over 40 pubs a week, with thousand losing their jobs, smoke-haters do not care, as long as it is someone else losing the money. And they call smokers selfish jeeeeeshh!
Last time I went into a smoke-free pub, I needed an inhaler with all that toxic perfume and fragrance choking everyone in the so called clean air. Be afraid of what you cannot see. Would I want it banned? NO, because there will always be a smell that offends someone. Ventilation/air filtration should be the way forward, for those who are not bothered about smoke and have not been brainwashed.
http://www.ourlittleplace.com/chemicals.html
Twenty Most Common Chemicals in Thirty-one Fragrance Products [based on a] 1991 EPA Study
1. ACETONE (in: cologne, dishwashing liquid and detergent, nail enamel remover)
On EPA, RCRA, CERCLA Hazardous Waste lists. “Inhalation can cause dryness of the mouth and throat; dizziness, nausea, incoordination, slurred speech, drowsiness, and, in severe exposures, coma.” “Acts primarily as a central nervous system (CNS) depressant.”
2. BENZALDEHYDE (in: perfume, cologne, hairspray, laundry bleach, deodorants, detergent, vaseline lotion, shaving cream, shampoo, bar soap, dishwasher detergent)
Narcotic. Sensitizer. “Local anesthetic, CNS depressant”… “irritation to the mouth, throat, eyes, skin, lungs, and GI tract, causing nausea and abdominal pain.” “May cause kidney damage.” “Do not use with contact lenses.”
3. BENZYL ACETATE (in: perfume, cologne, shampoo, fabric softener, stickup air freshener, dishwashing liquid and detergent, soap, hairspray, bleach, after shave, deodorants)
Carcinogenic (linked to pancreatic cancer); “From vapors: irritating to eyes and respiratory passages, exciting cough.” “In mice: hyperanemia of the lungs.” “Can be absorbed through the skin causing systemic effects.” “Do not flush to sewer.”
Just trying to put things into pespective
Mark
24 Jan 09 at 5:15 pm
When Spain does pass more legislation I agree that it can’t be a half hearted effort that isn’t enforced. If everyone complies, then people can’t just go to the bar or restaurant next door. Such a relief when the legislation was passed here in the UK . Besides the obvious health benefits, it’s great to go out for the evening and not return smelling like an ash tray.
Spain tends to have a more agreeable climate than us further north, so smokers being confined to outside seating areas should be less of an issue. No excuses really! The law in Spain has been quite progressive in many areas but this is my number one gripe. Smokers have a right to smoke but not at the expense of the health and enjoyment of others!
Marcos
24 Jan 09 at 8:23 pm
The smoking situation is pretty terrible. It wouldn’t be half as bad if people just gave a damn, but really, is there even a point in trying to argue with a strange telling him that his smoke is bothering you, when he’s blowing that same smoke in his infant child’s face? Probably not.
The anti-smoking law, was demonised from the beginning for being too tough, bringing up many comparisons with the nazis and stuff… I find it is quite useless, I virtually don’t know any not-smoking bar, and only a few of the restaurants I go to has a section for non smokers.
Besides that, in places like Madrid, Esperanza Aguirre has sabotaged the anti-smoking law, and right now there’s a battle being fought in the courts to decide whether it is legal to block the (super soft) anti-smoking law in certain communities, like Madrid.
I just find it completely unfair that my fresh washed clothes end up smelling like an ashtray after going with a few friends to a bar to chat.
David
25 Jan 09 at 3:08 am
Minority view here…
I’ve been traveling to Spain off and on for 20 years. Lived whole years there a few times and I’m a legal permanent resident though living in the US at present.
One of the things I love about Spain is the smoking. I smoke about 20 cigars a year, and Spain is the only civilized place in the world where you can enjoy a great meal and then a great smoke.
I hope they don’t become more strict.
Carlos
25 Jan 09 at 7:02 am
Listen what is your problem people with freedom of Choice?? If you do have such a problem with it go elsewhwere to another country run by your ilk!! There is no inconclusive evidence of Second Hand Smoke being harmful in fact it is all based on lies.
Why do you people have such a problem with freedom of Choice?? If you complain about certain countries rolling over to the PC nanny state please go to them and stop bothering the Libertarian-minded majority!!
PS I dont smoke.
Carlos
25 Jan 09 at 7:05 am
David I know what your saying it shows the fact we are independent and not run by some twats based in the Politically Correct English speaking world.
Carlos
25 Jan 09 at 7:12 am
Marcos use a laundry por favor!!
About the Nazis you mention?:
well the first major person in the 20th century to be fanatically against smoking was a certain Adolf Hitler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany
Says it all really!! Smoking bans arent about health at all they are about control of the people!
chas
25 Jan 09 at 10:46 am
For years the smoking rate has been decreasing, the number of vehicles has increased and asthma has increased. Traffic fumes is the worst irritant followed by dust mite found in all beds and soft furnishing.
Bill (Legazpi)
25 Jan 09 at 11:46 am
@Carlos – I think Ben is complaining that he doesn’t have the freedom of choice to go to a restaurant that isn’t full of smoke.
@Ben – please don’t delete Carlos’ posts, even though they are a trollish. Let everyone see what the pro-smoking argument has been reduced to – comparisons with Hitler and lies about the effects of smoke on people’s health!
Marcos
25 Jan 09 at 12:34 pm
@Carlos: Hitler was known to eat bread, thus eating bread is evil. Nothing more to say.
@Bill: Exactly. I’m not against a smoker having a cigarrette in certain designated places, where they don’t bother anyone, or in the street, or at their home. But the moment they start blowing smoke in the face of another human being, well, there’s not only the liberty of the smoker to smoke, but also the liberty of the rest of the people to NOT have smoke blown into their faces.
ken
25 Jan 09 at 1:30 pm
You know, I´m sick to death of the old smoker´s argument about all the other chemicals and inhalants that are bad for us, as if this were reason enough to have to tolerate smoking. Smokers have had it easy for decades. They have smoked in every nook and cranny of every public space, on public transport, in peoples homes, you name it. Apart from the health issue which is very important, second hand smoke is extremely unpleasant for non-smokers. It´s invasive. Gets into your hair, gets on to your clothes, irritates your eyes, affects your breathing, spoils your experience of a restaurant or of a café or bar. I don´t need to go on.
I was in a restaurant in Toledo with a group of people, some of whom smoked after the meal. The waiter was very pleasant and chatty, and wasn´t afraid to express his dislike of smoking although for his job he had to “suck it up”. He had been in the business for years and he remembered when the smell of cigarette smoke was actually pleasant. It had a pleasant aroma and was tolerable despite it´s ill effects. Nowadays, he pointed out, cigarette smoke smelled bad. Smelt of chemicals. And he was right.
Where I live in Cantabria, there are a handful of non-smoking establishments but the notices are not respected. People smoke all the time. The waiters and waitresses are reluctant to do anything unless you raise a complaint. I find this trait of Spanish smokers very annoying. That they can´t respect the non-smoking policy in even the handful of places that are non-smoking. That they put me in the position of having to challenge them over it or put me in the position of having to leave the place because it´s uncomfortable. I remember in the Parador of Arcos one time, a group of women whom I took to be local, came into the café. They sat at a free table that had a no smoking notice on it. A quick word with the waiter and he moved the notice to another table and brought them an ashtray. WTF!
Smokers need to get real. We all share the same spaces here. Your habit has been accommodated in a way that is fair for you and not so fair for others but it´s a start. Please, respect the places that are non-smoking. It´s not a lot to ask. BTW I was a smoker myself but fortunately was never addicted. I still, on very rare occasions, smoke a cigarette but ALWAYS outdoors and away from non-smokers. It´s the very least I should do.
Veronica
25 Jan 09 at 2:23 pm
You anti smoking morons should get your backsides back to the U.K.
Here you will find like minded fanatics that believe that a wisp of smoke will kill you stone dead at 50 paces.
Don’t go to a liberal country like Spain and try to enforce you nazi idealism’s.
Your types are a disgrace to democracy.
Kids belong in creches etc. and most certainly not in pubs. Nothing worse than having screaming brats all over the place whilst trying to enjoy a drink and a smoke. You see these are adult pleasures
Take the brats to McDonalds and stop whinging
Carlos
25 Jan 09 at 4:14 pm
Exactly Veronica. Marcos the difference is that the antismoking bit was basedx on Nazi ideology based on racial purity.
I am sorry for Ben if he has problems finding nonsmoking places and do hope he lobbies hard to them to get some better accomodation for nonsmokers and/or better ventilation.
Carlos
25 Jan 09 at 4:15 pm
Ken I do respect the nonsmoking places there when I go nuff said.
ValenciaSon
25 Jan 09 at 5:02 pm
How selfish and ignorant some can be! Of course second hand smoke is hazardous to one’s health! That’s been well documented and even 3rd hand smoke has been reported to pose risks. A wisp of smoke introduces at least 50 different carcinogens so yes it is unhealthy. I hear a lot of Nicotine influenced rhetoric.
Ben
25 Jan 09 at 6:06 pm
Well said Valenciason, and with that, I close the comments to this post. I think enough has been said, and I have begun to receive childish vitriol that has been deleted. How sad this question always turns into such an angry debate from those on one side of the fence. That said, anyone is welcome to continue this debate in our forum.