My recent comments about smoking in Spanish bars and restaurants received the usual amount of moody replies, many of the more offensive ones deleted. There are two possible reasons for this: 1. Smokers hate criticism, 2. Negative blog posts lead to angry replies. The latter is certainly true.
I don’t like being critical of Spain, but as the years go by it seems that one finds more to be critical about. The other day whilst walking around the Retiro park, I tried to work out why, and came to the conclusion that it is simply the product of living somewhere for a very long time.
After the honeymood period wears off, one starts to see the chinks in the armour. But what made me fall in love with Spain in the first place?
The new-found freedom you get when you escape abroad, wild escapades with friends to different fieasta-ful corners of an undiscovered country, stunning fresh landscapes to look at, wander through, and photograph, a beautiful new language to learn, new people to interact with, a wonderful, rich, new culture to get to grips with, new food, the Spanish love of outdoor life, Spanish film (not TV!), fine wine, fine ham, beautiful people, a passion for valuing tradition… the list is long.
But then you live here for five, eight, ten years and you start seeing beyond all of that to the workaday country beneath. A country with the same problems as the one you came from, with it’s own silly annoyances that you realise do come to infringe on your everyday life (like the smoking thing).
You start moaning about the same things the locals do, but when you do it, there is a real danger that, as one commenter put it a few months ago, you just become “yet another foreigner sticking his nose into complicated issues and drawing the same old negative conclusions about Spain”.
The same conclusions a Spaniard will draw, but as a foreigner, woe betide you if you mention these things in public!
Anyway, what am I on about? I knew long ago that Spain would be a ‘life-partner’, like a great wife (like mine) that you know you plan to keep forever (hope Marina reads this, few bonus points here for the taking perhaps?!)
And just as we go might go through rough patches with a husband/wife/boy-girlfriend, in the end the best thing to do is to find a perfect middle ground where we live happily together, in love with each others’ virtues, and putting up with the foibles.
So my plan is to get my head out of my office, and start enjoying those virtues again, keeping everything positive (as is my wont), and putting up with the day-to-day annoyances that probably crop up wherever you live. I mean, if I still lived in the UK, I know I’d be moaning a hell of a lot more. (Then again when I phoned my great uncle recently, and he immediately commented on the weather, I felt deep pangs for such wonderful Englishness!)
Have you ever fallen in and out of love with somewhere you’ve lived for a long time?
Juan
29 Jan 09 at 3:27 pm
I know how you feel. When I was living back in the States, I absolutely hated my home city (Miami). All I saw was a sprawling mess of cement that made me feel claustrophobic. Everywhere I turned, there were gigantic, empty condominiums that blocked the sunlight that the city was supposed to be famous for. All I focused on was the crime and the terrible transportation system. Don’t even get me started on the massive crowds of tourists. I hated it, hated it, hated it! And I wasn’t alone. Everyone I grew up with felt the same way and we all had one plan and just one plan in life: get out of Miami.
These days, living in Galicia, I find myself missing Miami a lot. I realize that I had lived there so long that I had just stopped seeing the good things. There might have been a lot of ugly buildings but the sun still shone if you knew where to look for it (something that is seriously lacking up here these days) and it practically never rained (!!). The transportation system may have been terrible and slow but there was nothing like watching the sun rise from the metrorail as it snaked its way between the downtown office buildings. The tourists may have been annoying but it was refreshing to walk down the street and hear so many different languages being spoken. The thing I miss the most though, is probably the night-time skyline, imposing and bright no matter how late it was.
There are a lot of things I love about Spain but I think one of the things I love most is just how much it has helped me appreciate where I grew up.
Tom Clarke
29 Jan 09 at 6:28 pm
Funnily enough, I had a very similar conversation with someone at lunch. I spent a month out of Spain recently (in Australia) and though Spain/Catalonia is most certainly my permanent home, I found myself getting irritated by: dog shit, bad service, crappy restaurant food, an insane lack of respect for other peoples’ time, general corruption (everywhere and all of the time) and so on. And yes, we can’t complain as openly as those who were born here because, to anyone except friends and family, we sound like a bunch of bloody whinging poms!
Fortunately, tobacco is cheap here and Catalan wine is better than any of that Australian rubbish… and you can go for dinner at 11 pm, and they have Voll Damm, and the hams, embutidos and meats in my local supermarket are wonderful, and I have a great job, and we can go skiing every weekend if we want to, and… things aren’t too bad
Truth is: late January’s a pretty down sort of time. Spring’s just around the corner. Ánimo, Ben!
juanjo
29 Jan 09 at 7:36 pm
It is a well-known sociological syndrome! Ex-pats (like religious converts) initially go overboard about the country to which they have decided to emigrate. After time, as you say, the honeymonn feeling wears off and they recognise that their adopted country has most of the faults they were trying to escape from in their old country, plus a few different ones.
Further, as time goes on, ex-pats start to eulogise the “Old Country”, forgetting the faults they were avoiding. [Read Karen Carpenter’s study “Brits on the Costa del Sol”. Even further, some ex-pats become even more nationalistic about the “Old Country” as can be evidenced by the fervour of ex-pat Jewish communities for Israel (the toast” Next year in Jerusalem!”) and the fervour of “Irish-Americans” for the “Oulde Country”, some of them funding the NI “Troubles” through NORAID at one time.
So it is natural!. Just try to avoid wrapping yourself in the “Olde Flag” in your new country!.
)
gary
29 Jan 09 at 7:58 pm
Strange you should say, but as a young man my home town of Leeds had little to offer. I was glad to get out, the town centre was dirty, dilapidated and full of ‘bus station folk’ after dark.
Mum still lives in Leeds and occasionally Gill and I go there for a night out and I am pleased to say that over the last ten years or so I have become increasingly proud of my hometown as it has developed from an industrial city to a commercial hub and steadily become more forward looking and cosmopolitan…
Absynth makes the mind grow..er..where was I….?
BrianA
29 Jan 09 at 8:09 pm
Maybe it is down to how strong your links to “home” are. I don’t have any real link with any one part of the UK & haven’t been back there for 7 years. Yes – Spain, along with every country I’ve ever lived in or visited, has bad bits, but for me the good bits are still winning. Spring seems to have started, blossom on the trees, longer days arriving. Now if only the pound would go up against the euro again…..
Ben
29 Jan 09 at 9:41 pm
@Juanjo, interesting, I don’t think I have ”costa del sol syndrome” though, and don’t think I’ll be wrapping myself in the olde flag either! Think I’ll just get Spanish citizenship and be done with it instead!!
enrique
29 Jan 09 at 9:45 pm
Ben, soy de Madrid y me fui de ahí más o menos cuando llegaste tú . No, no tuviste tú la culpa, sino mis ganas de alejarme de un pais que empezaba a soportar mal.
El enamoramiento de mi pais lo descubrí viviendo fuera, y no ha sido un proceso, al revés sólo me bastaron unas semanas para echar de menos todo lo que tú alabas de mi pais. Lo mejor de vivir fuera de España es: venir de turista a España.
Me gusta mucho tu podcast, aunque solo lo he descubierto recientemente, he escuchado ya varios y he de felicitarte por su frescura y ritmo. Muy bien hechos.
un abrazo
acosta
29 Jan 09 at 10:00 pm
This is a great post. I think it really speaks to life in general more than anything else and the struggles to maintain a creative and motivated state of life rather than one that gives into suffocation and routine.
Living in a country other than one’s own must bring all of these issues to a point quite powerfully.
Enrique me gustaria oir tus experencias sobre el pais estas viviendo ahora y tambien lo que has podido discubrir sobre tu pais.
Gracias
Chris
29 Jan 09 at 10:07 pm
Very true, Ben. I live in a city that’s usually considered among the most beautiful in all of the USA (Seattle), in a region surrounded by mountains, the ocean, with Canada nearby and another of the most beautiful cities in North America (Vancouver), but many days all I can think about is the petty things..not liking my job, traffic, etc. The view driving across Lake Washington with Mount Rainier in the distance and the Cascade Mountains looming to the East is gorgeous but it gets a little less exciting each time. When I first moved here I never thought I would tire of it, now I find myself pining for other places and thinking “Now THERE I would be really happy and appreciate things”….New York City, perhaps? But wherever you go, there you are.
pippa
29 Jan 09 at 10:36 pm
I left my hometown (Santander) 20 y ago to go to England, and I have just come back to Spain. I appreciated Santander, the Picos the Europa and Madrid much more since I left Spain. One of the things that really annoyed me from England was that quite a lot of people seem to live thinking only on the next holiday , and then once summer finishes, start thinking about Christmas, and not enjoying everyday life.
I always thought that the main difference in the two cultures is that in Spain you “work to live” and in England you “live to work” but that has changed an awful lot. I see people here in Spain having two jobs (even three) and not seeing the family, doing ridiculous times of commuting and it is true I have not come at the best time, but they seem to be moaning about everything.
I think in general people do not realize what they have and do not take pleasures in the small things because they do not see them anymore, and only the people from outside are able to appreciate them, but you miss them when you do not have them.
( I do not know if I am making much sense, but I am a bit tired, it has been a long day!)
RayTibbitts
29 Jan 09 at 11:30 pm
The things I have universally enjoyed about any place I have lived have been the things that happen to also not cost anything to enjoy. The things that differentiate one place from another, that make me enjoy being in one place over another, happen to be the things that cost time and money.
I wish I weren’t like this, but I have come to learn this aspect of myself.
I think that this is the reason that my honeymoon in Spain wore off: the Dollar versus the Euro, the fact that I got laid-off from a job that I thought didn’t pay me what I was worth, only to discover that the only openings were in jobs that paid even worse – and I reached the limit on my credit card, so I had to cut back on the things that allowed me to really feel like I was enjoying Spain.
I’m not saying that I have to be conspicuously consuming in a place to enjoy myself, I’m just saying that I mistakenly allowed myself to equate my love of Spain with doing the things that I can’t afford to do anymore.
Maybe I’m crazy.
Tom
29 Jan 09 at 11:38 pm
@Juanjo – interesting point but I really think that Ben’s right not to include himself with those suffering ‘Costa blues’. Neither do I. We’re not retirees, after all.
I think the truth is that after 5,6,10 whatever years, assuming you’re at least moderately assimilated, you feel that same as any other resident of your barrio at the end of January: a bit down and easily annoyed by the negative points of what is by then your home.
I love England (or at least the tiny bit of it I know) and I visit several times a year. But I’m certainly not pining for the place, and nor would I for one moment countenance the idea of returning. Spain’s great. It’s also a bit rubbish sometimes. Such is the way of the world.
Stuart
30 Jan 09 at 2:32 am
Spain has long since been YOUR country Ben. You have every right to be critical about ANY part of it you like. You may even be mistaken in your criticism, but you still have the right to say anything you like about your country because it is yours. You live there. You love it. Your wife and child were born there. Case closed.
If a Spaniard (or anyone) fails to understand that, they are an embarrassment to YOUR country and you should explain that to them in a non-polite way, perhaps even suggesting that they get out of YOUR country.
(I have highlighted words in capitals not because I am angry or ranting, but so the mindless lunatics that troll the web for critical blog posts on Spain – “moody” people in Ben’s words – can understand what I am saying… I just assume life makes no sense to them unless presented in seemingly angry rant form)
Ben
30 Jan 09 at 9:45 am
@enrique – me alegro de quete gusten los podcasts, bienvenido.
And thanks to everyone for the comments so far. It’s obviously more of a universally appreciated problem than I’d imagined. But “…wherever you go, there you are.” and “Spain’s great. It’s also a bit rubbish sometimes. Such is the way of the world.” seem to be the best philosophical answers to the problem/issue at hand!
Parubin
30 Jan 09 at 11:34 am
The Human mind works that way, I guess.
When remembering the past, bad little annoyances tend to fade away in the mist of memories, while the good times are amplified and even sometimes glorified (“any past time was better”). While living in the present tense the downsides that bother you can get as much of your attention as the things you love.
In your case, England represents your past and Spain your present.
ValenciaSon
30 Jan 09 at 1:04 pm
Well I have two nuggets to contribute to this discussion. Clichéd as it may be, absence does make the heart grow fonder. Ben, have you considered that maybe you have maybe more of a right to consider Spain your own country, with all the rights and privileges to criticize España? After all, a born in country spaniard did not make a conscious decision to be in Spain, you did.
AndrewW
30 Jan 09 at 1:15 pm
I agree with ValenciaSon – I do think you have a right to criticise it. However, you’ll always find someone who says “well, if you hate it so much, leave. You made the choice to come here”.
Ben
30 Jan 09 at 1:48 pm
@VS, I think that’s it, that I’m just becoming more Spanishified! I think of myself as 50/50 these days!
@Andrew, Indeed, people will always say that, and yes, I think I do have the right to criticise too after 10 years. But if I lived here, in the UK or in Russia, I don’t think spending too much time criticising one’s country is a good idea anyway. Better to get back to enjoying what’s good
EuroYank
30 Jan 09 at 2:01 pm
You should try fairy tale land Luxembourg. The people are great. The landscape breathtaking. Probably the highest standard of living anywhere, and the highest real estate prices. A totally multicultural society. The only problem is the government sucks, the bureaucracy is unionized, incompetent and fascist. Its all pomp and ceremony, and Democracy is a word used as window dressing!
Jon
30 Jan 09 at 6:50 pm
ahh, wherever you go, that’s where you are… That’s why I like moving a lot.
I’m from Oakland CA and I sure don’t have any glowing, growing fond memories. Mostly when I think back to home and the States in general I am glad that I moved.
I’ve been in Holland 8 years and have earned every right to complain just like the natives. I don’t actually, because I tend to look on the bright side…
But I AM ready for another move!
Mark
30 Jan 09 at 7:21 pm
@Pippa
It’s a good observation you make about people living from holiday to holiday without enjoying the moment in the UK. I can’t speak for other countries, in fact obviously I can only speak for myself, but I’m certainly guilty of this trait at this time of year. Many people put more effort into planning a short holiday escape somewhere than they do into their everyday lives the rest of the year. No place is perfect but we should all learn to value what we have a bit more. Hmmm… now where was it I put my passport!
frank
30 Jan 09 at 7:59 pm
“Further, as time goes on, ex-pats start to eulogise the “Old Country”, forgetting the faults they were avoiding. [Read Karen Carpenter’s study “Brits on the Costa del Sol””
Karen O’Reilly? Karen Carpenter probably sang about it!
Jon
30 Jan 09 at 10:36 pm
Ben said:
“I think I do have the right to criticise too after 10 years. But if I lived here, in the UK or in Russia, I don’t think spending too much time criticising one’s country is a good idea anyway”.
That’s right, Ben! I always think like this (let’s use the example of Holland’s horrible cold, grey, rainy, never-ending winter ):
It is perfectly normal and OK for me to grumble to myself about the horrible weather. But what’s the point of spreading all that bad news? Everybody else is doing that already!
So I keep my moans and whines to myself, why spread more misery? And if someone gripes at me, I try to deflect his misery and say “well, you know, it ain’t all that bad!”
There is just no point at all in complaining about something without any plan for change or improvement. And if it’s just griping to let off some steam, well I guess I can do that by myself without bothering everybody else.
Amanda Hamilton
31 Jan 09 at 12:34 am
You’re so right – when you get bogged down in the nitty gritty it can almost seem worse – especially dealing with beaurocracy .. but when you do the things you came to do and love doing, the love affair is alive and well …
juanjo
31 Jan 09 at 11:20 am
@frank- Karen O’Reilly! O’Reilly! O’Reilly!. You are quite correct. Blame old age and laziness for firstly forgetting and then couldn’t be *rsed to change it when I spotted the mistake!
)
ValenciaSon
31 Jan 09 at 12:02 pm
“Why do birds suddenly appear, every time Spain is near?” Sorry, couldn’t resist.
juanjo
31 Jan 09 at 1:15 pm
@Valenciason- ““Why do birds suddenly appear, every time Spain is near?” Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Nor me:
)
“Before the rising sun we fly,
So many roads to choose
We start our walking and learn to run.
And yes, We’ve just begun.”
luke
31 Jan 09 at 4:05 pm
My desire to leave the country of my birth comes with having a restless spirit. I know that I should be traveling within myself to find the obstacles to contentment. Moving to another country is often a temporary diversion from the disatisfaction of the past which will eventually surface again.
Marcie
1 Feb 09 at 12:57 pm
There is a wonderful ancient Chinese saying-`
” Instead of constantly seeking new landscapes, learn to see with new eyes!”
Ben
1 Feb 09 at 2:21 pm
Great saying Marcie. Amazong how much more intelligent the Oriental civilisations are than ours. We always want new new new, and they say, look how happy you can be with what you’ve got!
Dominic
3 Feb 09 at 1:27 pm
“Why do birds suddenly appear, every time Spain is near?” Thanks for that ValenciaSon that gave me the best laugh this week.
Dominic
3 Feb 09 at 1:27 pm
“Why do birds suddenly appear, every time Spain is near?” Thanks for that ValenciaSon that gave me the best laugh this week.
gary
3 Feb 09 at 10:51 pm
Rainy days n Sundays even get me down in Spain…
juanjo
4 Feb 09 at 12:05 pm
“I’ve got a ticket to ride and I don’t care!”
)
ValenciaSon
4 Feb 09 at 1:48 pm
“Spain, look at the two of us. Strangers, in every way!”
Beatriz
4 Feb 09 at 6:00 pm
I agree with Enrique, the best thing about leaving your home town is going back as a tourist! I left Puerto Rico after college and I enjoy my visits back very much. Hated living there, though.
I live in Juan’s much hated Miami now–Miami is the sort of city that seems to be a love/hate affair. I love it most of the time but when I hate it, I really hate it! I’ve gotten to the point where I defend it against critics, though, so maybe it’s become my new home town!
Stephen
4 Feb 09 at 7:16 pm
Perhaps to reduce aggro when venturing a criticism of Spain you could begin your comment Ben by saying, “As a Spaniard said to me the other day….”
Ben
5 Feb 09 at 2:48 pm
@Stephen – good idea!!
Maya
9 Feb 09 at 5:16 pm
I find other expats are often the first to jump down my throat in defence of perceived criticisms of Spain! Sometimes protesting too much methinks. For example I once naively requested any info about smoke free cafes in a new area, on an expat forum – and all hell broke loose. ‘If you dont agree with Spanish ways then what are you doing here? Go back to miserable England if you want clean bars?’ etc etc – quite an eye opener!
Hollis
19 Feb 09 at 1:38 am
I’m going to amp up the cheese factor here but only because I feel it’s earnest. A friend of mine has a personal blog; a few months ago she posted this saying of her mother’s:
The Heaven is blue and the sun is shining,
Where your heart is, there is your home.
I wrote that down in a little notebook where I keep sayings / thoughts that I like for I love the correlation between your heart and your home. My wife is Spanish and one of the things that I love about Spain is how much love is indeed in their homes through interpersonal / interfamily time spent together. Never mind the smothering besos!
In your case Ben, you very well could be married and living in England with child. Say you and Marina had met in the UK and you all decided to stay there to work on your tans (haha, kidding). But the fact that you are in Spain now I think makes you all the wiser to observe / weigh what’s going on with more background / experience for comparison. If you weren’t living there and didn’t have England to compare / contrast with, you wouldn’t know / see half as many of the frustrations / annoyances that you do now.
I was born and raised in the Southern U.S. but didn’t realize how Southern I was until I moved to New York four years ago. I’ve learned more about the South in four short years here than most people do in a lifetime down South. By moving away you gain a fresh perspective on a place. It’s rewarding to know Spain through both sides of the lens if you’re following me.
Ben
19 Feb 09 at 9:16 am
@Hollis – That is a lovely couplet. Yes, my heart is definitely in Spain!
Jeff
20 Feb 09 at 10:36 am
Having lived in UK, Australia (8 years), we now live in Spain. For me it is fine to share an open, honest and objective opinion with either expats or native locals. It is however important to make sure that one’s comments are balanced between positive and negative and that when they are negative, to take care not to offend the locals as they may not have had the global experiences, of some of the expats.
When I compare living in the UK (London, Bournemouth, Nottingham), Italy (Trieste), Australia (Melbourne + Sydney) and now living near Barcelona. I prefer Spain, as it is an easier country to live in and a more pleasant and tranquil way of life.
Whilst I may at some time in the distant future consider returning to Australia, it is highly unlikely that I would ever live back in Italy or the UK.
Medrid
2 Mar 09 at 9:13 am
No one will notice the value of their mother country until they gone and stayed in foreign country. There is nor safer place in earth than our mother country.
pazzi
4 Mar 09 at 1:22 pm
Good morning.
I´ve discovered today your blog and I think it is very interesting. I´m spanish and perhaps I can explain you the problem about smoking on bars or restaurants in my country: The spanish don´t accept the criticism, that´s right, only the spanish can criticise to themselves.
On the other hand sometimes I think that we are a society that admires and protects corruption. The term accountability doesn´t exist here.
Regards
Joost
27 Apr 09 at 4:41 pm
I lived in Japan for a year and loved everything about that country until I started to realize that I was discriminated against because of my skin color. At first I fell out of love with Japan, but later realized that discrimination is everywhere, and I just learned a valuable lesson for the rest of my life.
Orsen
22 Jun 09 at 1:49 pm
Hello. I don’t generally feel anything until noon; then it’s time for my nap.
I am from Mauritius and know bad English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: “Apr the authority listing for terbinafine mg tablets was extended allow the treatment of aboriginal and torres strait islander peoples.”
With love
, Orsen.