OK, I said I was too busy to post this week, but I really shouldn’t make rash statements like that, clearly.
In the forum there is an interesting discussion about the new system for EU foreigners resident in Spain and how they should carry ID. In the past we all queued up for insane amounts of time to spend hours in awful police stations to eventually be given an incredibly useful credit card-sized piece of plastic called the NIE card.
This included name, address, tax ID number, signature, and fingerprint (!) – it made you You in Spain, and you really can’t do anything without it. Buying in shops with a credit card, checking into a hotel, signing up for anything, all necessitate this wonderous little plastic me.
Now it is being phased out (mine expires in June), and replaced with an A4 piece of paper declaring us to be foreign, that will need to be carried at all times together with your passport!
What a pain! Now, in my case, having been resident for 10 years, and married to a Spaniard (which may be less relevant), I have a feeling I can apply for some sort of more permanent nationalisation that would allow me to apply for and carry a DNI (the Spaniard’s credit-card sized ID card with all the info).
That’s not the only reason I’d be happy to become more half-Spanish, but it is a good one – you cannot underestimate the usefulness of that little card! Does anyone know anything about the viability of this? Can a Brit end up with a DNI?
Anita
26 Jun 09 at 3:03 pm
Hi all,
all these coments seem very confusing difficult to know which one to follow with there being so much red tape in spain and very paperwork heavy! can anyone tell me if my dAughter of 13 was born in Ibiza Spain, both her parents are British, with Spainish residencia,she also has Spainish residencia, though she has a British passport and a British birth certificate which was applied from the British consulate in madrid, she is also registered in the Ibiza town Hall as born in Ibiza. I would like her to also have a spainish Passport but not renounce her British passport. Is this possible.
Anita
a British citizen
27 Jul 09 at 2:40 pm
@maria
I’ll volunteer!
Diana
17 Aug 09 at 11:18 pm
I was reading online about the new law of grandchildren. I think my sister and I would qualify. Our grandparents are all from Spain. My father’s parents in particular left the country due to the war and moved to Cuba. They had my father there and then moved to American when Castro came.
I also read that Spain only allows Dual citizenship with a few Spanish countries. Would this law now allow dual citizenship with Amercians?
Bas
21 Aug 09 at 12:17 pm
Well I have just this morning got my bit of green paper.
I’ve been living in Spain 12 years & have a spanish wife too. I have also called the British embassy & got told the same as the above posters.
Funny thing is, when I enquired about spanish citizenship about 9 years ago I was told it was the other way around, namely in UK you’re only British, but in Spain you can be dual. That was either not true, or things have changed 7-8 years ago according to the consulate.
As stated by previous posters, & according to the UK Consulate this morning, you cannot have your right to a british passport taken from you.
Wether the Spanish government like that or not seems besides the point, I can’t see them deporting every Briton living in Spain who has Spanish nationality & a British passport.
Peronally, & this is a personal opinion, not based in any fact. I suspect this whole thing has been phased in in Spain to help out the UK government.
Almost every other EU country has some form of photo ID with the exception of the UK.
Labour have had to back down from their mandatory ID card scheme, it just seems a neat way to boost the uk ID card numbers. Anyone British that wants to remain so but live in Spain has to get one…
Paul
21 Aug 09 at 9:32 pm
I have just ‘renewed’ my nie today and like everyone, came away without a card and I’ve been here 19 years. I refuse to carry my passport around in case the police want to id me but like someone in this blog said, in Spain you need proper id for just about everything. So, I just wanted to know if anyone had managed or bothered to complain to the Spanish Interior Ministry or any EU Consulates. I was told during my appointment today that this is the result of an agreement between all EU member states. Would it be worth the hassle to send a collective complaint as I’m sure everyone who wrote in this blog each knows lots of other EU citizens who are desperate with this new situation. Then again, I have to agree with Bas that ot sounds like a ploy by the Spanish governent to help out Britain on their own id card proposals. First get x amount of people acually wanting the cards and then hoping that the rest will eventually follow.
Debbie
7 Sep 09 at 6:11 pm
I have been searching for info on getting a Spanish passport. My UK passport expired in May 2008 and there is no way I can afford a new one even after all this time. I know it is illegal to live here without a valid passport but financially can’t do anything about. I have lived here nearly nine years, have a residencia card (expired), green certificate, Spanish Driving Licence etc. I have heard that UK nationals can apply for a Spanish passport, does anyone know if this is correct? If so where do I start. Approx 16€ a year would be much easier to find than the current UK price every ten years, also no sending off the passport, just go to the police station.
Paul
9 Sep 09 at 5:27 pm
Here’s the official view from the Spanish Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs of the British residents in Spain having to carry passorts everywhere – Translation of a letter dated 11 July 2007 to the British Embassy from the
Deputy Directorate for Legislation, Directorate General for Immigration,
Spanish Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs
Please find below information in response to your questions relating to the application of Spanish legislation on EU citizens to British nationals who reside or wish to reside in Spain.
1.What will be the consequences of not obtaining a registration certificate?
British nationals who wish to remain in Spain for more than three months should refer to Article 15.8 of Royal Decree 240/2007, of 16 February, which covers the entry, free movement and residence in Spain of citizens of EU Member States and other States Party to the EEA Agreement (Spanish State Bulletin of 28 February 2007). This article establishes that non-compliance with the obligation to obtain a registration certificate will be subject to the relevant fines, in accordance with current Spanish legislation on the National Identity Card.
2.What new rights are acquired with permanent residence status?
With regard to permanent residence status and new rights, such as the possibility of voting in national elections, or their retrospective application, it should be noted that the possibility of voting in the elections to the Cortes Generales (Congress of Deputies and Senate) is a right granted to Spanish citizens, in accordance with the provisions of the Spanish Constitution (Articles 13 and 23), and with current Spanish legislation on the general electoral system.
Notwithstanding the above, it should be remembered that, under Article 6.1 of Organic Law 4/2000, of 11 January, on the rights and freedoms of foreign nationals in Spain and their social integration, foreign residents in Spain may have the right to vote in local elections, based on reciprocity considerations, in the terms established by Law or Treaty for Spaniards resident in the countries of origin of such foreign nationals.
British citizens resident in Spain will be able to exercise active and passive voting rights in Spanish local elections, as well as in elections to the European Parliament, provided that they fulfil the requirements laid down in current legislation on the general electoral system.
3.Does the certificate have to be carried at all times? Is a driving licence a valid identity document?
Under Article 4 of Organic Law 4/2000, foreign nationals in Spain have the right and the obligation to carry documents that establish their identity, issued, in this case, by the competent UK authorities; similarly, the above right and obligation apply to the documents that establish their administrative situation in Spain.
In the case of British citizens, the relevant identity document is considered to be a valid and current passport. (If the passport has expired, the holder should carry a copy of this document and the relevant renewal application form).
Madrid, 11 July 2007
Deputy Director General
Carlos Guervós Maíllo
I personally don’t want to risk losing my passport and so I won’t be carrying it around with me 24 hours a day. Luckily I have a Spanish driving licence which seems to be good enough for paying in the supermarket with credit cards and just about everything else. As far as I know, it is not illegal not to carry a passport or DNI, in the case of Spanish citizens – it is only illigal not to produce it (meaning you could go to a police station the next day to show it, if necessary) – Paul
yeye
21 Oct 09 at 6:16 pm
Well if it helps, I am a spaniard living in Dublin and when I tried getting an Irish passport they told me I should renounce to my Spanish Nationality. So there you go, because we are European it works that way. If you where living in Argentina instead probably we could get both citizenships but because we are both EU there is no way to get it. And even if you are born in Spain or UK or whatever with foreign parent your parents can only apply for one citizenship until you are 18.
Colin
4 Nov 09 at 5:09 pm
#Bas 21 Aug 09 at 12:17 pm and #Paul 21 Aug 09 at 9:32 pm – It was not the Spanish Governments idea to get rid of the Tarjeta de Residencia for Foreigners. Actually if the so-called inane, inept and intellectually challenged British Expats Association (thankfully now deader than a dodo) had not stuck their oar in by insisting that the requirement to hold a Tarjeta de Residencia was illegal under European Law and stirring up a fuss, we would still all happily be holding Tarjetas de Residencia which of course provided far more benefits that problems
The Spanish Government faced with an annoying, time consuming and costly challenge by a wasp (yes a thoughly useless and pain in the b*tt insect called the Brit Expat Assoc for short) decided that rather than waste useful resources fighting the battle in the European Court, they might as well re-jig the system.
As a result we now have a useless piece of paper in the Registration Certificate instead of the excellent and very useful Tarjeta.
So it was not the Spanish BUT a few Brits (who left their brains in the left luggage at LGW and did this with no thought for anyone but to bolster their own self-inflated egos) who caused all the hassle and current problems with ID for virtually all of us.
I have asked about it at the Spanish Interior Ministry and the response was effectively “Well you Brits were the ones fighting against having to have a Tarjeta de Residencia – You won so what’s the problem. Do you expect us to change the system back again because you have decided you don’t like it”.
Personally I would love the Tarjeta de Residencia to reappear as I found it to be the most useful form of ID. It was even useful in the UK when some jobsworth in UK Border Control queried where I lived.
I never supported the Brit Expats Assoc as I always thought that they were likely to cause far more trouble than good (which they did) and I personally did not shed any tears at their demise.