General Spanish learning tips

[Ben]

This is a list I published a while ago on the NFS blog. I thought it would make a useful stickie post here in the forum, but it is by no means exhaustive, so please do continue the list underneath!


One: Motivation.
To learn any language efficiently, quickly, and well, you need to be very motivated to do so, otherwise it takes forever. And I mean very motivated. If you only have the ‘I might try and learn a bit of Spanish’ kind of motivation, then give up and do something else. You need to be desperately keen to learn Spanish, longing to get out there and speak it fluently. Motivation ‘targets’, or reasons, include: ‘I want to move to Spain a.s.a.p.’, ‘I want to be able to talk to those beautiful Spanish girls/men,’ ‘I’m obsessed with Spain and I want to go as deep into the culture as I can…’ N.B. You don’t have to be fluent in Spanish to move to Spain. In 6 months you can go from zero to conversational, and to fluent in 9, if you move here and surround yourself with it.


Two: Hard work and hunger.
Once the motivation is in place you’ll need to really throw yourself into it, working on the language constantly and consistently, devouring as much Spanish as you can get your hands on at every possible opportunity, which leads me to the next point…


Three: Total Immersion.
Surround yourself with Spanish, bath yourself in Spanish! Watch Spanish films, or Spanish TV via satelite or the net, read Spanish magazines and newspapers, get a decent text book from the local bookshop, buy a decent dictionary (and a pocket one (http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0007126255)). Get hold of novels or ‘readers’ that match your abilities. A reader is a reduced, graded book with a range of vocab that matches your level. Estimate your level by picking up a reader in the bookshop and reading a page. If you have trouble with around 6 words then this is your level. More than 6 and it is too high, less and it is too low. More or total immersion here (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1047).


Four: Prioritise.
Think, ‘do I need to know such a complicated word yet? Have I learned enough useful stuff already?’ For example, if you come across the word for ‘railing’ before you have learned basic shopping vocab, then you may want to let it slip out of your memory for now, concentrating on the basics for the time being. I hope that makes sense, it really worked for me!


Five: Join a class.
Learning with a group isn’t just a social thing, it’s really motivating to be in the same boat as others, and a bit of inter-group competitiveness never does any harm. Plus, teachers structure language learning nicely and pull you up on those recurring mistakes. The bi-weekly classes I took in my first year in Spain made a huge difference. If the teacher is boring, change class ASAP.


Six: Enter yourself into an official exam.
Honestly, it isn’t that terrifying and it really gives your motivation a kick. The Instituto Cervantes (http://www.cervantes.es/portada_b.htm) offers official diplomas (http://diplomas.cervantes.es/) (the ‘DELE’) and has centres all over the world (http://www.cervantes.es/seg_nivel/mundo/Marcos_mundo_principal.jsp). I did the Intermediate level exam years ago and later the ‘Superior’, the latter really honing those damn subjunctives.


Seven: The Intercambio.
You meet with a Spanish speaking person once a week, in a bar, cafe, wherever, and speak for an hour or more in Spanish, then the same in English. That way both parties benefit. Look or advertise on language school or college (especially Erasmus/ foreign students) noticeboards, and in the ex-pat press (http://in-madrid.com/class.html) and LoQuo (http://madrid.loquo.com/) in Spain. An Intercambio is invaluable for practicing your speaking, and really is my top tip, the single best thing you can do to improve your Spanish. Be warned (or not): many a lasting relationship, marriages included, have begun with an intercambio - here is one who speaks from experience!


Eight: Some random techniques.
Some people use white stickers to label every object at home in Spanish - worked for my sister. I used to carry a sheet of paper around with all the basic tenses and verb types on, testing myself on the metro… Old fashioned vocab sheets work a treat - English words on one side of the page, Spanish on the other - you cover one side and try to remember the words’ translations. Self-testing whilst walking around -’Do I know the word for that?’ (whilst looking at a lamp post, letter box etc). Carrying the pocket dictionary (http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0007126255) everywhere is great for that.


Nine: Think in Spanish.
Another old language learning trick, but it works. If you can’t regularly talk to others in Spanish then you can always practice by holding an internal dialogue with yourself!


Ten: Learn on the go.
An obvious one. This really applies when you are actually in Spain (or South America etc). Need to open a bank account? Learn the relevant vocab before you go into the bank. Same goes for shopping at the market, buying bread, getting a haircut, chatting up the ladies/men on a night out, buying a train ticket etc etc….


Eleven: ENJOY IT!
Use the techniques that work for you and aren’t too tiresome. If it’s boring or no fun you’ll soon give up. This is where things like classes and intercambios really help, especially when the latter has an element of the blind date thrown in for good measure (podcast no. 18 (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/../145/) goes into this!)

Please continue this list with your top tips below!

[Nic]

Twelve: Remember that you learn through mistakes...

You cannot let mistakes get to you. Everyone makes them! Its what makes you human. This is something you have to take on board when learning a language. So what if you said 'polla' when you meant 'pollo'? ;)

People forgive and forget. Mistakes are how we learn. Just laugh about it and move on...

[Ben]

How could I forget that! Well done for bringing up a very important point. It is essential to feel happy about making errors or you will never get anywhere. Be bold, get things wrong without worrying about it, and the whole process (especially speaking, obviously) advances so much quicker.

[Pepino]

Two tips on a variation of the total immersion and reading themes...

If you're lucky enough to already be in a Spanish-speaking country, make use of any of the free newspapers that get handed out in the streets morning and evening. On my way to work in Barcelona, I pass a girl handing out copies of "Qué" which I then read over lunch, and on my way home, I pass a guy with the "ADN" paper. I then call into a cafe and have a well-deserved caña and read it while letting other people's conversations seep through my ears. This way, you also learn about some of the local current affairs that don't normally warrant any attention by the big newspaper websites.

My other tip is to get drunk. No, seriously! ;D After a hard day in work feeling like I'm understanding nothing of what my colleagues are saying and feeling like a complete failure who doesn't deserve to even attempt a foreign language, there's nothing better than heading out for a few drinks and seeing the difference. This isn't a scientific discovery of mine of course, and you'll have to be careful not to get completely plastered!! Obviously, if you're totally wrecked then you'll have no real perception of how your Spanish is coming across and you certainly won't learn much from your conversations, but being mildly drunk de-activates that annoying gland in the back of your brain that makes you subconsciously check every word before you say it. With me, that gland "spoils" my Spanish as I end up thinking too much before each word resulting in a big disjointed mess. Before you know it, you'll find you just let the words come out. Many will be wrong of course, but your conversation will flow like never before. And if nothing else, it gives you a boost to be able to feel like you're communicating freely, and what better way is there to round off a hard day?? ;D

[Edith]

Two tips on a variation of the total immersion and reading themes...(...) but being mildly drunk de-activates that annoying gland in the back of your brain that makes you subconsciously check every word before you say it. With me, that gland "spoils" my Spanish as I end up thinking too much before each word resulting in a big disjointed mess. Before you know it, you'll find you just let the words come out. ;D

LOL, you're right, a bit of alcohol always loosens the tongue, but not too much or you will get incoherent... ;) in vino veritas est!

[Ally]

Two tips on a variation of the total immersion and reading themes...

but being mildly drunk de-activates that annoying gland in the back of your brain that makes you subconsciously check every word before you say it. With me, that gland "spoils" my Spanish as I end up thinking too much before each word resulting in a big disjointed mess.

I totally agree! I have a private tutor for 2 hours at my house every other saturday aft, but invariably I sometimes have to reschedule to Fri evening 7.30 til 9.30. I always have a couple of drinks through the lesson because I like a drink at the end of the week and my tutor agrees that I'm on fire throughout the lesson.

It's not really ideal to be constantly on the verge of intoxication but it works for me at the moment ;)

[andysween]

I get really flustered while using the phone. I seem to lose my confidence so quickly. It's actually pathetic when I practise a few times before actually phoning someone. I try to speak clearly but few people understand me. It's frustrating sometimes.

[Ben]

I think the phone is the biggest barrier of all, so don't worry, you are not alone! Why is it so much harder to speak to someone on the phone in another language than it is in person?

[Marina]

Looking at a person while he speaks helps you a lot; gestures, the movement of his mouth... You loose all of that on a phone call.

For me the phone is by far the most difficult part of learning English

[Paco]

50% of the Spanish speaking technique is in your body languange. And is very important to learn from a native, mainly from Spain.
Remember Spain and their former colonies are two culture seperated by a language in commun. :D So if you learn Spanish in Mexico. Good luck talking it in Spain!!!
Here to loose your tongue
Pollito-chicken
Gallina- hen
Lapiz-pencil and
pluma- pen
now repeat 100 times and you tongue is loose like a whip.
Paco

[Pepino]

Looking at a person while he speaks helps you a lot; gestures, the movement of his mouth... You loose all of that on a phone call.

For me the phone is by far the most difficult part of learning English

Absolutely right Marina. One of my collegues here in my office in Barcelona "kindly" donated his direct-line phone number to me so my English calls from the UK wouldn't bother the girl who answers the general calls to the office here. I say "kindly" in quotes, because I now receive lots of his calls from people who have his direct line from the past, so I've now become an expert at asking who's calling and telling them that I'm transferring them, I still can't understand pretty much anything they say to me! The names of the people are usually the hardest to get. I end up just pretending that I've understood who's calling, and then just pass the call over with a "es para ti" and wink/smile at my coleague! jeje


Here to loose your tongue
Pollito-chicken
Gallina- hen
Lapiz-pencil and
pluma- pen
now repeat 100 times and you tongue is loose like a whip.
Paco

I'll try these next time I'm sat on the Metro. It seems like a good way to get some personal space on a busy day, and improve your pronounciation at the same time! :rolleyes:

[landlady]

I guess my tip is a bit like having a few drinks, but without drinking, and that is to try and get some humor into any Spanish conversations that you are having. When you make people laugh, and they in turn make you laugh, it makes everyone feel good and less under pressure to get everything exactly correct, (this always makes my mind go completely blank) you then relax more and don't mind making mistakes as they make everyone giggle (with you, not at you) so you feel bolder to just go for it and don't get so self critical of every sentence you are saying.
I had a brilliant skype chat this week, when my Spanish speaking friend told us two 'learners' to role play - in and airport and then in a shop, one being a worker, the other a customer. We all got into such a fit of giggles as we were trying to be the most awkward of customers. Who on earth would want to sell or buy a mans yellow waterproof hat made in crocodile skin ;D We made plenty of errors, but the point is that we spoke mostly in Spanish for nearly 2 hours!

[Diana]

I guess my tip is a bit like having a few drinks, but without drinking, and that is to try and get some humor into any Spanish conversations that you are having. When you make people laugh, and they in turn make you laugh, it makes everyone feel good and less under pressure to get everything exactly correct, (this always makes my mind go completely blank) you then relax more and don't mind making mistakes as they make everyone giggle (with you, not at you) so you feel bolder to just go for it and don't get so self critical of every sentence you are saying.

This is excellent advice! There have even been studies done showing that when you laugh a bit before an exam you will normally do better than when remaining tense. It is certainly a lot cheaper than drinking and safer too. Thinking about this, I wonder what a combination of both will do?

[greytop]

I found this site WordChamp (http://wordchamp.com/lingua2/Splash.do) and was impressed by the "read foreign websites" facility. It allows you to see the meaning of a word simply by rolling the cursor over it. Haven't registered and tried the other facilities yet but it also offers customised flash cards and vocabulary exercises.
May help those who are struggling to read Spanish news items etc. :thumbs-up:

[Culebronchris]

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to make my point here as it may sound like defeatist nonsense.

First time I've read this thread and I like all the points made by people about a drinking, total immersion, reading, watching the tele, going to the pictures etc. I think I do most of them.

The trouble is I can feel better about progress and then I try to have a conversation and it becomes one huge, disjointed mess. I am reduced to a list of "me Tarzan, you Jane" words in any old order and it can destroy my confidence for days.

I'm having trouble with an insurance claim on my car and I think I may well end up scrapping the car because every phone call to anyone who may be able to help becomes so pathetic that I just daren't try again. The lack of confidence engendered by that and similar situations means I end up being unable to ask for a beer! So it's a viscious downward spiral. Other than not speaking, or doing what most of the Brit community around here do, blame the language and the Spaniards and only speak to other Brits, I just don't know how to get around this. Hypnosis, brain transplant?

It really does drive me potty.

[richardksa]

Oh we all have days like that!!!!! My learning curve looks like the hind leg of an arthritic donkey. Some days I think I'm doing ok, others, not so well.

But every so often comes a ray of hope. Last time I was in Madrid, and of course it was my last day(!) my amiga introduced me to a friend who spoke very little English. I smiled, shook her hand and completely forgot every one of the few Spanish words I know. We were having lunch and at some point my amiga left the table, as ladies do, and left her friend and myself alone for a few minutes. Well, I couldn't just stare, so I attempted a word or two. Glory be, she replied and realising my plight, she spoke slowly and carefully. I tried a bit more and by the time my amiga rejoined us we were having a (somewhat stilted admittedly) conversation and the friend said, "I thought Richard couldn't speak spanish. He speaks very well." She lied, but boy did I feel proud!

So it comes and it goes. That's natural. And I empathise and just hope that soon there will be more good days than bad.

[Diana]

I'm having trouble with an insurance claim on my car and I think I may well end up scrapping the car because every phone call to anyone who may be able to help becomes so pathetic that I just daren't try again. The lack of confidence engendered by that and similar situations means I end up being unable to ask for a beer! So it's a viscious downward spiral. Other than not speaking, or doing what most of the Brit community around here do, blame the language and the Spaniards and only speak to other Brits, I just don't know how to get around this. Hypnosis, brain transplant?

It really does drive me potty.

Aren't you being hard on yourself? Phone calls discussing insurance claims can be difficult even in one's own mother tongue. Many of us learners go through times like you have described. At first, I was so impatient with myself with Spanish, that I couldn't get anything out. Recently, I have begun to relax and this has truly helped - nowhere near fluent but I have decided to just keep at it. Good luck and don't give up!

[Edith]

I have to agree with Diana and Richard: don't be so hard on yourself. Every now and then, we all seem to be hitting a plateau and we may feel we are not progressing at all.

Making phone calls is not everyone's cup of tea. Even though I consider myself fluent in English I do not like making phone calls in this language, let alone in Spanish. When I do have to make a phone call in another language I can feel those butterflies moving around in my stomach and my hands become sweaty! It's called TELEPHONE PHOBIA. :D :D :D

[eldeano]

When it comes to convering in Spanish, we Brits are very conscious about making mistakes - often to the point that if we know we won't get it right we won't even bother.

Yet when we observe someone for whom English is not their primary language but who is willing to have a go in order to get their point across or just even practise, we are full of admiration for them despite the mistakes they make.

For years my lot went to the same Menorcan hotel and every year the staff made a fuss of my son (now 12). One year I thanked one of the waitresses for being so nice to him and asked how she had remembered him from the previous year when so many British kids used the hotel. Her answer? He was the only one who tried to speak Spanish to people.

So, have a go, and give others the chance to admire you.:)

[Flexichick]

Ack! I feel you....really, I do!

I've been taking lessons every week for three years. I'm half-Cuban. I studied in junior high and high school (ok, I'm almost 40, so that was a while ago).

Some days I am blabbering away just fine and other days I can't string a simple sentence together. It's maddening!

For some reason I refuse to speak in front of my mother (who is fluent). I'm sure there's some deep psychological reasoning there....but I don't know what it is.

Some days I go to class and I understand everything. Other days we go back to reviewing some VERY basic stuff and I feel like I haven't learned a flipping thing in all of this time! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Then again, some days (especially after a glass or three of vino tinto), I'm fully understood, can follow conversations, impress myself with vocabulary that I didn't even know I knew (ok, I'm easily impressed....but I knew the word for "fleas" (pulgas) when my mom's cat got them).

I refuse to quit, though! Refuse, I say!

[Jon Hundt]

eldeano said: "When it comes to convering in Spanish, we Brits are very conscious about making mistakes - often to the point that if we know we won't get it right we won't even bother.

Yet when we observe someone for whom English is not their primary language but who is willing to have a go in order to get their point across or just even practise, we are full of admiration for them despite the mistakes they make."

When I first moved to Holland I worried about not speaking perfectly. One day I realized that I would probably NEVER speak Dutch perfectly, and I would never be able to hide my American accent. So I just started talking; I thought "the heck with it, who cares if I sound stupid, as long as I get my message across". It worked! Now everyone I talk to knows I come frome somewhere else, but all of my conversations are 100 Dutch. And if I trip over a word, or a sentence - so what!?

In the States we love 'foreign' accents, we think they're charming and cute, or sexy and sophisticated. I try to remember that here; maybe people think it's fun to listen to me.

Oh, and I dislike making telephone calls in any language, even my native English. Whenever possible I prefer a face-to-face talk, even if it's sometimes inconvenient.

[dave]

For some reason I refuse to speak in front of my mother (who is fluent). I'm sure there's some deep psychological reasoning there....but I don't know what it is.



Wow. That's exactly my problem. I'm puerto rican, my parents split when I was five. My mother didn't teach my siblings and myself spanish, but I can understand it pretty well. Since she never forced us to speak it, my spanish isn't fluent, not to mention that my accent is all wrong and it sounds much different than other puerto ricans. (In fact, my wife is portuguese and I have no problem learning and trying to speak her language.... sometimes my spanish has a portuguese accent!)

Anyway, I'm now trying to get over a deep-seated psychological inability to speak spanish to my family. I've steeled myself and even mentioned to my mother that we need to speak to eachother only in spanish so that I can improve my spanish to a conversational level. She was all for it, obviously. But when the time came, she spoke to me in spanish and I responded in english. I willed myself to simply speak spanish, but I just couldn't do it! When she pressed me to switch, I made an excuse about being tired (I'd just gotten home from work).

I think it stems from the simple fact that on the few occasions where I attempted, as a child, to speak spanish my family teased me about my american accent. I can clearly remember an incident where I was called into the middle of a family party and prompted to count to ten in spanish. I proceeded to do so, expecting praise. When I said ".....tres, cuatro......", they burst out in laughter because I'd said "cuatro" like an american learning spanish might, a hard C and T sound. It burned. And I really think it has stuck with me.

I think I may be ready soon, though. Just mentioning it to my mom was a good first step for me. Now I just have to get over the next hurdle and just do it.

What's even worse is that I love speaking spanish to others (non-family) when given the chance. It's just that my wife and I travel to Portugal and Spain only every two years. My family is my best resource for getting up to speed and I'm not utilizing this resource at all right now.

btw, I've gotten great advice re: learning spanish while in Spain on two occasions. Once was from a bartender in Madrid who was actually from Sweden, if memory serves. (I think I used 'el' when I should have used 'la' and apologized when he corrected me.) The other was from a Spanish taxi driver in Cordoba. They essentially said the same thing: don't worry about conversational mistakes, just stumble through it if you have to. The Spanish will correct you, don't take it personally. You'll absorb, over time, all these little "lessons" and your spanish *will* improve.

Now if I could just apply that advice when it comes to my family..... :confused:

[Diana]

For some reason I refuse to speak in front of my mother (who is fluent). I'm sure there's some deep psychological reasoning there....but I don't know what it is.

I have been trying to figure this problem out for years - being on the otherside of it. My three children stopped speaking English to me after the oldest had been in school for a year. They all stopped together and never spoke to me again (in English, of course) for about 20 years. They are now 33, 30, and 29 and have somehow overcome the problem, although they will always switch to German if we are alone.

I am sure I pressured them too much to speak English and probably corrected their mistakes too often when they were small. I spoke to them in English (and they answered in German) until the oldest was about 16 and then I threw in the towel and left it up to them to continue learning.

Unfortunately, when they were small, we were not able to go to the US or England for any length of time to make it easier for them. Later they went by themselves and since then it has become more normal for them to speak English when I am around.

[José Miguel]

Una traducción madrileña para "He's cheap":
"Gasta menos que Tarzán en corbatas".

[Isabella]

íHola a todos! I'm Liz from New Zealand and I am a bit new to adding messages so [I]pido disculpas if I make a mess of it. I am studying for a BA in spanish at uni and I have found that immersing myself in Spanish music [perhaps more of the Concerto de Rodrigez type] for a few minutes before starting my studies really helps both sides of my brain to kick in.
I speak other languages and I find that the same technique works equally well - I literally drift off in my chair and let the beauty and often the sadness of the music take over. I should tell you that I am 80 this year so it is quite easy to sit in a chair and drift away!!![Joking] .If I am not boring you all too much, the other trick that helps me is to take down notes in the form of 'mind maps' as this engages both lobes by introducing both colour and statistics. Ojalá que paseis bien. Liz

[Marina]

Hi Isabella,

Thanks very much for sharing your tricks with us. I agree with you that music can help a lot with a language. What other languages do you speak???

[billabongdom]

I would say that you can't speak a language, until, you can speak it on the phone. The phone is a great way to improve your Spanish if you have an intermediate level, one has to concentrate 100% without any visual aides. Skype of course is great for that. Though personally I find mobiles more difficult than normal phones.
Ciao !!

[Shefali]

I agree when it comes to music :thumbs-up:. I keep searching for lyrics of songs and sing along with the CDs. If you try and imitate their accent, it first gives comical effect but then it really teaches you something. By memorising the lyrics, I always have a song to sing when I'm on my bike on my way to work :).

[greytop]

I agree when it comes to music :thumbs-up:. I keep searching for lyrics of songs and sing along with the CDs. .... I found a lot of lyrics here (http://www.letrasmania.com/)- plus a lot of adverts but I suppose that pays their costs :)

[ZeroTX]

Remember Spain and their former colonies are two culture seperated by a language in commun. :D So if you learn Spanish in Mexico. Good luck talking it in Spain!!!


Is it really that difficult? I am going out of my way to be sure I'm learning Latin American Spanish with a very Mexican-specific accent. As a U.S. resident, I can't imagine what use you'll have for a Spain accent and vocabulary in the U.S. I have probably encountered tens of thousands of Spanish-speaking people here in the U.S. and not one has been from Spain. As a matter of fact, the largest population of Spanish-speaking people in the world is not from Spain, but rather, Mexico. This is particularly of importance when living in a country which borders Mexico!

Of course, in my profession as a public school teacher I also encounter many Spanish speakers from Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala and occasionally Venezuela or Costa Rica.

Actually, the only Spaniard I've ever spoken with in person lives in Spain -- in Malaga -- and we speak via Skype. I love the Spanish accent (it is so clear and crisp), but it's just not practical to learn that as my "first" form of Spanish here in Texas!

That said, I want to travel to Spain and I surely hope that I'm not totally lost with my primarily Latin American vocabulary! (I use the term "vocabulary" loosely, as I'm still a beginner)

-Michael

[dave]

Is it really that difficult? I am going out of my way to be sure I'm learning Latin American Spanish with a very Mexican-specific accent.

That said, I want to travel to Spain and I surely hope that I'm not totally lost with my primarily Latin American vocabulary! (I use the term "vocabulary" loosely, as I'm still a beginner)

-Michael

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm puerto rican and I've travelled to Spain several times with no issues. Granted, my accent tends to drift slightly in the direction of Spain while I'm there. However, my suspicion is that there are enough Latin Americans in Spain that this isn't an issue and hasn't been for some time.

In 2004, my wife and I were in Milan, Italy and happened upon some cleaning folks in a shopping area. They were from South America and upon hearing my wife's (broken) spanish, directed her to simply find the cleaners whenever she might need some help (directions, translation, etc) since they were mostly spanish-speakers. While we never needed the help, it was nice to know the safety cushion was there.

If Latin Americans are that prevalent in Italy, I can only imagine there must be plenty working in Spain as well.

As a real-world comparison, my wife is portuguese. Here in Hartford, CT we have a fair amount Portuguese as well as Brazilians. Additionally, the local portuguese church has a priest from Angola; he is joined by regular visitors from his home country. While accents may get in the way sometimes (and then only minimally), they can certainly make themselves understood.

Paco may be referring to vocabulary. If you go into the situation fully cognizant of the differences, you'll be fine. I'm not entirely fluent, but my sense is that advanced (native) speakers may sometimes need to "downshift" to a more basic, paced spanish. But they'll be able to converse easily.

[delgado]

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to make my point here as it may sound like defeatist nonsense.

First time I've read this thread and I like all the points made by people about a drinking, total immersion, reading, watching the tele, going to the pictures etc. I think I do most of them.

The trouble is I can feel better about progress and then I try to have a conversation and it becomes one huge, disjointed mess. I am reduced to a list of "me Tarzan, you Jane" words in any old order and it can destroy my confidence for days.

I'm having trouble with an insurance claim on my car and I think I may well end up scrapping the car because every phone call to anyone who may be able to help becomes so pathetic that I just daren't try again. The lack of confidence engendered by that and similar situations means I end up being unable to ask for a beer! So it's a viscious downward spiral. Other than not speaking, or doing what most of the Brit community around here do, blame the language and the Spaniards and only speak to other Brits, I just don't know how to get around this. Hypnosis, brain transplant?

It really does drive me potty.
The fact that you are trying means that you're going to improve so don't give up.Any one who has learned/learning spanish will tell you that using the telephone is very hard because it's often not clear and there is no body language.I found that after a frustrating year struggeling to learn it suddenly "clicked" in my head,as for conversational spanish i can chat and chat, but i didnt take any lessons(which i now regret).To be honest after 2 and a half years in spain i still use direct line(linea directa),also the kind of conversation you will have with an insurance salesman will be using lots of words that you rarely hear let alone use!!!"poko a poko" the effort now is greatly rewarded by the friendships you will make and the respect you will get for being the "englishman" who's actually taken the time to learn.As for learning i talked to as many people as i could in bars, shops etc,and watched tv as much as i could without my head exploding!!!I also found that my ability to talk spanish varied greatly from day to day, so don't be disheartend if you have a bad day or two.As for making mistakes I found them the best way to learn because lets be honest nobody likes feeling stupid,and most decent people will respect the fact you're trying and correct you. This is only my point of view and i'm no expert but still i hope it helps....Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!

[delgado]

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to make my point here as it may sound like defeatist nonsense.

First time I've read this thread and I like all the points made by people about a drinking, total immersion, reading, watching the tele, going to the pictures etc. I think I do most of them.

The trouble is I can feel better about progress and then I try to have a conversation and it becomes one huge, disjointed mess. I am reduced to a list of "me Tarzan, you Jane" words in any old order and it can destroy my confidence for days.

I'm having trouble with an insurance claim on my car and I think I may well end up scrapping the car because every phone call to anyone who may be able to help becomes so pathetic that I just daren't try again. The lack of confidence engendered by that and similar situations means I end up being unable to ask for a beer! So it's a viscious downward spiral. Other than not speaking, or doing what most of the Brit community around here do, blame the language and the Spaniards and only speak to other Brits, I just don't know how to get around this. Hypnosis, brain transplant?

It really does drive me potty.
The fact that you are trying means that you're going to improve so don't give up.Any one who has learned/learning spanish will tell you that using the telephone is very hard because it's often not clear and there is no body language.I found that after a frustrating year struggeling to learn it suddenly "clicked" in my head,as for conversational spanish i can chat and chat, but i didnt take any lessons(which i now regret).To be honest after 2 and a half years in spain i still use direct line(linea directa),also the kind of conversation you will have with an insurance salesman will be using lots of words that you rarely hear let alone use!!!"poko a poko" the effort now is greatly rewarded by the friendships you will make and the respect you will get for being the "englishman" who's actually taken the time to learn.As for learning i talked to as many people as i could in bars, shops etc,and watched tv as much as i could without my head exploding!!!I also found that my ability to talk spanish varied greatly from day to day, so don't be disheartend if you have a bad day or two.As for making mistakes I found them the best way to learn because lets be honest nobody likes feeling stupid,and most decent people will respect the fact you're trying and correct you. This is only my point of view and i'm no expert but still i hope it helps....Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!

[eldeano]

The 'Double Submit Syndrome' strikes another thread!! :eek:

[eldeano]

Is it The Terminator?

[Zarita]

Is it really that difficult? I am going out of my way to be sure I'm learning Latin American Spanish with a very Mexican-specific accent. As a U.S. resident, I can't imagine what use you'll have for a Spain accent and vocabulary in the U.S.

Crap, that's discouraging. I expect to use my Spanish mostly in the U.S., Mexico and possibly Latin America, but all the books/CDs/learning programs I've found so far (including Notes in Spanish) teach the language Spain-style.

A fellow student of mine who is bilingual with family from Mexico told me that, in her experience, the dialects don't totally preclude understanding. She said a Latin American speaking in Spain is like an American speaking in the U.K.

I just hope I'm not totally screwed if I learn the basics from Spain-oriented programs . . . it's hard to learn Spanish from Telemundo alone!

[dave]

Crap, that's discouraging.

I just hope I'm not totally screwed if I learn the basics from Spain-oriented programs . . . it's hard to learn Spanish from Telemundo alone!

Don't let these comments dissuade you!

I'm Puerto Rican, but not fluent enough to make this argument since I speak spanish more slowly than typical puerto ricans. My parents are entirely fluent, though. I took my mother to Spain in 2002. She had no problems understanding the Spaniards. They, in turn, understood her easily.

I will concede that there was likely a time or two when someone had to repeat themselves due to accents or some other regional variance.

IMHO, the idea that spanish-speakers from one part of the world wouldn't understand spanish-speakers from another is pretty ridiculous.

[acmench]

IMHO, the idea that spanish-speakers from one part of the world wouldn't understand spanish-speakers from another is pretty ridiculous.

I agree whole-heartedly. I studied Spanish throughout middle and high school in Missouri and it was definitely Latin American centered. There wasn't a vosotros in sight. Most of my college professors were also from Central or South America but when I chose to study abroad in Madrid all of the professors were obviously Spanish. I picked up the accent basically without a hitch and after living here for about 3 years I speak with a Spain-Spanish accent and vocabulary. The transition was fairly smooth.

Similarly, my husband is Spanish and we've travelled to both Mexico and the Dominican Republic. He was definitely in his element and was completely able to speak with the locals. Save a few minor vocabularly gaffs (like coger un taxi in Mexico) the communication between Spanish speakers from all over the world is, I think, not overly difficult.

[eldeano]

coger un taxi in Mexico

What was wrong with that?

[tad]

What was wrong with that?

Coger down Mexico way means to have intimate relations with(in a manner of speaking). Bit strange with a taxi-but there are some funny people about.;)

[eldeano]

Coger down Mexico way means to have intimate relations with(in a manner of speaking). Bit strange with a taxi-but there are some funny people about.;)

What is even stranger is that you know this. :eek:

[motley]

I sympathize with all of you because I experience all of your problems. I hope this will make you feel better.
Remember where you were a year ago, a month ago, a week ago & I bet you have improved. Think about what you have accomplished & don't focus on what you haven't.
Being what the periódico would call an elderly woman, if they were writing about me, I think makes it even harder. But I know I am progressing, although it can get discouraging when you thought you knew something & when you need it, it escapes you.
I look at it this way, I'm learning something useful, living in South Florida, and I'm exercising my brain cells & hopefully someday I will be able to carry on a conversation.

[Beckett]

I sympathize with all of you because I experience all of your problems. I hope this will make you feel better.
Remember where you were a year ago, a month ago, a week ago & I bet you have improved. Think about what you have accomplished & don't focus on what you haven't.
Being what the periódico would call an elderly woman, if they were writing about me, I think makes it even harder. But I know I am progressing, although it can get discouraging when you thought you knew something & when you need it, it escapes you.
I look at it this way, I'm learning something useful, living in South Florida, and I'm exercising my brain cells & hopefully someday I will be able to carry on a conversation.

Motley,
¡Me encanta tu actitud! ¡Qué consejo tan bueno! Ojalá hubiera más gente como tú. Siga así lo que estás haciendo. :thumbs-up:

[PeterR2k]

I would say never be afraid to make mistakes and master the basics

[DerekD]

ive just started lsitening to a spanish audiobook (bought on the US amazon site) - Angeles y Demonios by Dan Brown. I can really reccommend it.

Im not a great reader so its good from that point of view, but of course you also get the benefit of listening skills & concentration thrown in.

If i read a book to myself, at times i can hear my english accent creep into my head, so im sure its helping me to improve in this respect also.

[Culebronchris]

I started feeling sorry for myself again as I noticed I'd posted in this thread about a year ago complaining about my inability to string a coherent sentence together in Castellano. It's still the case but I haven't given up yet.

Does anyone know though how high profile, non Spanish speaking, personalities are coached in Castellano when they first arrive? I'm particularly thinking of the football players and trainers who seem to do pretty well remarkably quickly (with the odd Beckham like exception). Is there some language tutor to the stars with an infallible confidence and language building technique?

[barry]

Does anyone know though how high profile, non Spanish speaking, personalities are coached in Castellano when they first arrive? I'm particularly thinking of the football players and trainers who seem to do pretty well remarkably quickly (with the odd Beckham like exception). Is there some language tutor to the stars with an infallible confidence and language building technique?

I'm always suspicious of people who give the impression that they have mastered the spanish language in double quick time. Beckham is no exceptiion, just exceptionally honest about his abilties. The broadcasts that you might have seen of apparent rapid mastery of a second language have more than likely been previously prepared. I have yet to see Gary Lineker in a genuine spontaneous situation that would convince me of his fluency , although like many in this forum, has probaly mastered reading writing and listening to an advanced level. I recently came across a local college spanish teacher and I asked her (in spanish) if there were any conversational classes coming up. Her reply " Sorry I'm Italian, I don't speak spanish , I just teach year one spanish".
I have come across many people claiming to be fluent in spanish but when challenged their speaking level was barely above touristy phrases, but they probaly had a degree in spanish. Players and managers speaking english is a different kettle of fish, apart from pronounciation, english must be childs play.compared to spanish.

I'm no expert but I have broken the enormous barrier between so called advanced student (according to online tests !! ) and the pathetic beginnings of conversation at level 0.1, but it wasn't easy, and I don't believe spending a fortune on so called immersion classes would have made any difference. In fact my main motivation to keep going is not spending any money. No need with all the free material available. Sitting back comfortably and waiting for it to soak in is not an option either, as Richard Vaughan implies below.

Richard Vaughan, an American, is a respected english teacher based in spain, founder of 'pueblo inglés' . I have seen him on video teaching english to a small group of spaniards, he must be the best there is and obviously doesn't come cheap However he claims he can only help with 20% of the task. What he has to say about adults learning a second language must be unquestionably definitive about any adult learning a second language.


10 common mistakes Spaniards make , By Richard Vaughan
1.Spaniards think that with 300 hours of class they will have mastered the language enough to get by. The real figure should be around 3,000 hours, including classes, home study and real-life practice.
2 Classes are not the only solution. At best they solve 20% of the problem. It is absolutely essential to study alone (40%) and nip all language-related fears in the bud in real-life situations (40%).
3. Spaniards cannot accept that there is a tedious part: mastering oral agility of the grammar.
4. They assume that if they can understand their teacher, they will be able to understand in real communication situations.
5. They link progress to accumulating grammar and vocabulary. When we do focus on oral and aural confidence-building, they complain about "not progressing".
6. They leave learning English until after their degree.
7. They are not persistent in their efforts to learn and become easily disheartened.
8. They refuse to accept that attaining a good level of English requires a heavy investment of both time and money.
9. They aspire to a perfect mastery of the spoken language which is impossible. Listening should be their priority.
10. They think that they can learn English simply by going abroad. This is not usually true unless they live there for years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Culebronchris]

10 common mistakes Spaniards make , By Richard Vaughan
1.Spaniards think that with 300 hours of class they will have mastered the language enough to get by. The real figure should be around 3,000 hours, including classes, home study and real-life practice.
2 Classes are not the only solution. At best they solve 20% of the problem. It is absolutely essential to study alone (40%) and nip all language-related fears in the bud in real-life situations (40%).
3. Spaniards cannot accept that there is a tedious part: mastering oral agility of the grammar.
4. They assume that if they can understand their teacher, they will be able to understand in real communication situations.
5. They link progress to accumulating grammar and vocabulary. When we do focus on oral and aural confidence-building, they complain about "not progressing".
6. They leave learning English until after their degree.
7. They are not persistent in their efforts to learn and become easily disheartened.
8. They refuse to accept that attaining a good level of English requires a heavy investment of both time and money.
9. They aspire to a perfect mastery of the spoken language which is impossible. Listening should be their priority.
10. They think that they can learn English simply by going abroad. This is not usually true unless they live there for years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What he says seems fair enough (though I rather like how he mentions needing time then says it again but links it to spending money!) but it only suggests the problems.

"Rangers lost because they failed to score enough goals" may be correct but it's hardly useful.

So what does Richard Vaughan have to say about


how to master the oral agility of grammar
how to focus on oral and aural confidence building
how to listen

[richardksa]

So what does Richard Vaughan have to say about:
how to master the oral agility of grammar
how to focus on oral and aural confidence building
how to listen
He makes it quite clear that if you stated learning late that you will NEVER be fluent to native speakers level. He puts native speakers on a level ten and says that no late learner will ever acheive more than an eight.

The improvement in the oral and the aural abilities of his students are why he began English Village. (Pueblo Inglés is a similar idea, but a different company. Now!) In his introductory talk to students he offers phrases like "Which world war was the worst world war" and "Do you own a boat" spoken very quickly and naturally. ie, with the words running into each other. It spooks the students, but does point out that classroom English ain´t what is spoke in the street.

If you ever listen to his radio station (Vaughan Radio - it´s on the internet. His personal segment is "Cloverdale".) you will hear that he works his students hard and repetatively. He´s very successful, so his system must work.

[barry]

I rather like how he mentions needing time then says it again but links it to spending money!


Well he would say that wouldn't he.


Well at least you have identified your own problems so you are half way there.

I had already identified these as problem areas and now feel confident enough in these areas, but he doesn't mention my current problem of mental agilty of grammar usage, or straying into a topic in which I don't have sufficient vocabulary.

The relevant point is that if you are at all concious of shortcomings in your abilities as a speaker then a mental block is a certainty and nothing coherent will occur.

Students have various methods for achieving these goals, which is why he says 80% is down to you. Maybe a good teacher could recommend the best methods that would suit an individual.

David Beckham famously said I can string the words together but can't understand the replies. So if you can't yet listen effectively don't even try a conversation. Once you can listen effectively the learning curve is exponential. Listening should be their priority

I found the original article, it may be of some help.

http://www.elmundo.es/suplementos/magazine/2005/314/1128105087.html

[Kathy]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Hawk http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32935#post32935)
Coger down Mexico way means to have intimate relations with(in a manner of speaking). Bit strange with a taxi-but there are some funny people about.;)

What is even stranger is that you know this. :eek:

It's not really that strange. It's one of the first things you learn in the states if you're learning spanish! (but not in a class, of course!)

[Kathy]

Pepino said, "My other tip is to get drunk. No, seriously! ;D After a hard day in work feeling like I'm understanding nothing of what my colleagues are saying and feeling like a complete failure who doesn't deserve to even attempt a foreign language, there's nothing better than heading out for a few drinks and seeing the difference. This isn't a scientific discovery of mine of course, and you'll have to be careful not to get completely plastered!! Obviously, if you're totally wrecked then you'll have no real perception of how your Spanish is coming across and you certainly won't learn much from your conversations, but being mildly drunk de-activates that annoying gland in the back of your brain that makes you subconsciously check every word before you say it. With me, that gland "spoils" my Spanish as I end up thinking too much before each word resulting in a big disjointed mess. Before you know it, you'll find you just let the words come out. Many will be wrong of course, but your conversation will flow like never before. And if nothing else, it gives you a boost to be able to feel like you're communicating freely, and what better way is there to round off a hard day?? ;D"


Drinking a bit seems like it would work wonders for my Spanish! (too bad I don't drink!)

[Cervecero]

Is it really that difficult?

The only problem I ran into in spain was after I FINALLY found a mail box and asked a local street vendor to borrow a pen to finish writing a few addresses.

Me: "Tienes una pluma que puedo usar?"
hombre: "una que??" - looking at me like I'm crazy.
Me: "una pluma" - making the motions of writing
hombre: "ahhh, un boli!"

He gave me a pen and went away, probably telling his coworker that I'm crazy. That was the only time I felt embarrased speaking spanish in spain. I didn't feel so bad though because after I left, on the very same street I saw a store called something like "Papeles y plumas." At that point I didn't know which was the correct word to use in spain.

[guapo]

I think this difference between the language you learn in the classroom and what "normal" people use is what makes learning a language so challenging but also so rewarding - at least once you get over the initial embarassment.

[Isabelita]

The only problem I ran into in spain was after I FINALLY found a mail box and asked a local street vendor to borrow a pen to finish writing a few addresses.

Me: "Tienes una pluma que puedo usar?"
hombre: "una que??" - looking at me like I'm crazy.
Me: "una pluma" - making the motions of writing
hombre: "ahhh, un boli!"

He gave me a pen and went away, probably telling his coworker that I'm crazy. That was the only time I felt embarrased speaking spanish in spain. I didn't feel so bad though because after I left, on the very same street I saw a store called something like "Papeles y plumas." At that point I didn't know which was the correct word to use in spain.

This shows clearly that besides learning vocabulary it is important to learn strategies to describe things. In this case it would have been: algo para escribir which includes lápiz, pluma, lapicera/-o, birome, plumafuente, estilo, portaminas, rotulador ...

[mac9]

Hola a todos,

This is just a quick tip for anyone with Sky TV (mainly the UK but it is widely available in parts of Spain, I believe.)

Anyway, there is a Spanish-language channel included in the basic Sky package. It's called TVE and you can find it on channel 795. I find it really useful to watch, even though I don't understand large parts of it!

Adios!

[kepashi]

The only problem I ran into in spain was after I FINALLY found a mail box and asked a local street vendor to borrow a pen to finish writing a few addresses.

Me: "Tienes una pluma que puedo usar?"
hombre: "una que??" - looking at me like I'm crazy.
Me: "una pluma" - making the motions of writing
hombre: "ahhh, un boli!"

He gave me a pen and went away, probably telling his coworker that I'm crazy. That was the only time I felt embarrased speaking spanish in spain. I didn't feel so bad though because after I left, on the very same street I saw a store called something like "Papeles y plumas." At that point I didn't know which was the correct word to use in spain.

Es un detalle,igual no lo sabes, pluma y boligrafo no es lo mismo.
Pluma:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluma_estilogr%C3%A1fica
boli:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bol%C3%ADgrafo

Yo creo que tambien es importante que el interlocutor (la persona que escucha) haga el esfuerzo de entenderte porque yo al menos te hubiese entendido pero de sobra. Un saludo

[Finster]

Now that I'm moving into an intermediate level, my approach to learning Spanish has changed. Well, I am not sure if it has actually changed, or if I have realized something that was there all along.

I thought that a class would be my primary learning source, but that I should complement it with outside activities (audio, internet, intercambios, etc). Now it seems that the class is the complement to all the others. This is an obvious point, but I have better retention when I see the same vocab/lesson in multiple places.

For instance, last week I heard Ben use the expression "de hecho". Later I read it in the "Harry Potter" book I am reading. I asked about it in class and now I know it, and I will be more likely to remember it than if I was just taught it once in class. The same happened with the expression "Antes de (+infinitive)". I was corrected here in the forum, and that very night, we went over it in class.

Sooo, what are you trying to say Finster? Basically, everyone agrees that immersion is the best approach. Typically that is not an option, so you need to create an immersion environment yourself.

My self-immersion techniques:
• Audio lessons and podcasts for commutes. (daily)
• Spanish language music with lyric printouts for reference. (almost daily)
• Internet reading: Word of the Day, this forum, Spanish language news sites, and Spanish5000 grammar tools. (daily)
• Class (2 times a week)
• Mexican restaurant (1-2 times a week) - I found a great one with great bartenders that are patient with my Spanish. Plus they will slide me a free margarita now and then...This Spanish thing is already showing benefits!
• Spanish language books (almost daily). I have found that it is more enjoyable to not sit there with a dictionary and stop with every other word, but to plow through it and try to get the general story. Look up words later.
• Spanish language movies (1-2 times a week). Many DVD's will have a Spanish audio and/or subtitle option. Sometimes I will turn on both.

The important thing to pick a grab bag of things you enjoy to do, and then it doesn't feel like you are trying to make time to "work" at learning Spanish. Not to knock the benefits of learning about Spanish culture by watching and reading Spanish TV, movies, and books, but it can be easier to watch movies and books you are already familiar with. Plus I have discovered that I already have a whole library of Spanish language DVDs by just change the audio option on my current library.

[bil]

What drives me crazy is that have to learn Castillian, then adjust it to Andalucian, and then re adjust it to my neighbours in the village who speak something completely different.

We have been going there for three years, and I can understand (usually) most of what is being said to me, especially if the speaker is being considerate.

My two neighbours tho, lovely old dears tho they are, I still cannot comprehend ni un puta palabra.

The advice given to just throw yourself in is very true. Your mistakes will usually endear you to people, sometimes in ways you didn't intend.

As when my wife, to whom the waiter was pointing out the chicken, said to him "Me gusta polla mucho." The guy's face was a picture.

[bil]

Then there was the time we were out with our friends, and we were discussing the seafood menu. Choco (cuttlefish) was on the menu so I said 'Me gusta chocho en la parilla!'

I thought they were going to choke.

Ah well. Then there was the time when a collection of little old ladies all in black from the village stopped to ask me what I had been doing to get all hot and sweaty in the garden. Desperately groping for the apt phrase, I remembered the one the teacher had said, but instead of coming out with 'Estoy hecho en polvo' I managed something like 'Estoy echo un polvo'

Ever seen respectable little old ladies sobbing with mirth? I thought they were going to end up on the floor.

Ah well, it certainly broke the ice!

[bil]

Told you I was groping for the apt phrase. I obviously did worse than I thought!

[Edith]

I think this difference between the language you learn in the classroom and what "normal" people use is what makes learning a language so challenging but also so rewarding - at least once you get over the initial embarassment.

This makes me wonder why we have to learn these 'classroom words' in the first place! Some foreign language textbooks are clearly out of touch with reality.

[bil]

I think it's a shame they don't teach a bit more grammar. I think it's a scandal that grammar isn't taught as a subject in schools. It certainly isn't over here, anyway.

[Edith]

As when my wife, to whom the waiter was pointing out the chicken, said to him "Me gusta polla mucho." The guy's face was a picture.

A similar thing happened to me two years ago on Tenerife, even though I speak passable (if somewhat faulty) Spanish. I wanted to order 'pollo', but for some reason I blurted out 'polla'! What a howler! Was my subconcious acting up?! :confused::eek::blush:;D

Thank goodness, the waiters weren't offended and we all had a good laugh.

[Katy]

Could anyone recommend some books to read in Spanish, as I haven't read any yet. I tried the library but they only had translated novels which were way too hard.

[Katy]

I think the phone is the biggest barrier of all, so don't worry, you are not alone! Why is it so much harder to speak to someone on the phone in another language than it is in person?

Couldn't agree more. I had a nightmare conversation with the owner of a hire bike shop when the two bikes we hired got 3 punctures. Having ridden about 12 kilometers into the next town, we were a bit stuck so I tried ringing the store. Never again, there were lots of ''no entiendos'' and ''que se dice'' but they didn't come to pick us up. My husband trudged back to our apartment like Beau Gest in the midday sun to get our hire car and drove back to pick me and the bikes up. Even our Spanish teacher says she doesn't like speaking on the phone in England and she has been here for years.

[Brent]

I agree whole-heartedly. I studied Spanish throughout middle and high school in Missouri and it was definitely Latin American centered. There wasn't a vosotros in sight. Most of my college professors were also from Central or South America but when I chose to study abroad in Madrid all of the professors were obviously Spanish. I picked up the accent basically without a hitch and after living here for about 3 years I speak with a Spain-Spanish accent and vocabulary. The transition was fairly smooth.

Similarly, my husband is Spanish and we've travelled to both Mexico and the Dominican Republic. He was definitely in his element and was completely able to speak with the locals. Save a few minor vocabularly gaffs (like coger un taxi in Mexico) the communication between Spanish speakers from all over the world is, I think, not overly difficult.
Thanks for your post. It gave me a little more confidence to forget about the differences and just continue learning. The questions about the differences in Spain vs Latin American Spanish has been my only real major stumbling block...a little voice in the back of my mind, nagging me. I think I can relax and forget about it now. Muchisimas gracias! :)

[Berti]

I found this a very interesting thread and confirmed my own thoughts on:
1. Adapt to your environment
2. If stuck select a "rodeo"
3. Stand firm on globals.

Like most people who arrive in a new country with 50 odd words/phrases, I signed up for lessons (group classes) They were good for learning but no "atajo" to the perceived summit of learning a new language.
I quickly realised that, considering my limited linguistic talent, climbing my own (new language mountain) would take some time and personalised classes.
Over five years later I consider myself as regards reaching the summit, to be somewhere around "camp 5" I only refer to understanding/listening and expression in that respect. The written word in depth of sentiment I believe is another equally challenging "cumbre" and on that I consider myself to be approaching "camp 3".

But most importantly I no longer seek the summit, for I realise that for various reasons my Spanish will probably never be equal to my native British English. But it is crystal clear that I must keep working to maintain my level and add a little, "paso a paso"

So if I may clarify (from my personal experience) the three points above:

1. The area were I live,: the local people speak nothing like anything I was taught in my classes here, so I have a choice of maintaining perfectly taught castillano and walking into a bar and saying: "una cerveza por favor" and being met with an incredulous look (not recommended for a confidence booster) or adapting to my environment. It is a hard choice and each will make their own as to which linguistic direction to pursue.

2. I get stuck every day trying to express my deep feelings with some conversation or another, but I have come to realise that although limited in my depth of the new language there are "rodeos" and they often, no, very often are the salvation for the listener to understand my personal thoughts on that particular matter.

3.Every country has it`s own systems and of course many may be very different from your native country, but there are "globals" eg:

A while back I needed to renew the intercom phone in my house, my neighbour also, so intercom phone man duly arrives, explains what is needed and the cost. (from his delivery despite the fact that he is a registered company etc,it is clear that we are talking cash no receipts etc)
In my recent past here I would have bit the 40 euro bullet, paid and moved on, but for me this is a "global", so I wait for him to finish the repair and then say
: "Vale tenemos dos opciones es 40 euros con tu recibo incluso IVA o es 30 euros en efectivo"

There is no rocket science needed to guess what the exchange of money was, and I do not feel insulted by his attempt to make fat profit ( for many it's human nature and he tried to charge my Spanish neighbour the same, but it's a "global"

En

[Brent]

Hi again, Edith!

At what point in learning English (or any other language you speak) did you actually begin to "think" in that language? I've been studying Spanish for about 4 years now, and I only have little moments, maybe when I'm watching a TV program. I'll forget to translate for a few minutes and just understand. As soon a I become aware of it, it goes away! Maddening! I'm much improved since listening to the podcasts, however. I still hear Spanish, then translate to English most of the time.

[Yossarian]

I found this site WordChamp (http://wordchamp.com/lingua2/Splash.do) and was impressed by the "read foreign websites" facility. It allows you to see the meaning of a word simply by rolling the cursor over it. Haven't registered and tried the other facilities yet but it also offers customised flash cards and vocabulary exercises.
May help those who are struggling to read Spanish news items etc. :thumbs-up:


Great link, I've been looking for something like this.

[irishluke]

Hi all,

I seem to have reached a stage where I have larned all the basic grammar and words, but can't seem to reach the next level or don't know how to go about getting better, for example the standard I have which is small includes : Words and Phrases for time/days/months/occupations/food/clothes/weather etc and all the stuff like basic grammar for er, ir, ar verbs and their conjugations and I know a lot of verbs as well...but now that I know all the basic words and phrases and grammar, how do I go about reaching the next level in spanish? How did you reach the next level so? Thanks.

[Alison30]

Hi all,

... how do I go about reaching the next level in spanish? How did you reach the next level so? Thanks.

Find yourself someone native to practice speaking with and keep at it! I had a tutor for a couple of months, and even though speaking felt painfully slow at first, she was very encouraging and I made progress a bit at a time. I then did an evening class for a year and the teacher spoke entirely in Spanish which definitely helped. Listening to the intermediate and advanced podcasts also helped me loads. I can now hold a conversation at a fairly normal pace with a native Spanish person (although sometimes I struggle with understanding them!)

The biggest thing I think is not to get disheartened and to keep at it, you will improve! Good luck ;)

[magdabis]

Hi again, Edith!

At what point in learning English (or any other language you speak) did you actually begin to "think" in that language? I've been studying Spanish for about 4 years now, and I only have little moments, maybe when I'm watching a TV program. I'll forget to translate for a few minutes and just understand. As soon a I become aware of it, it goes away! Maddening! I'm much improved since listening to the podcasts, however. I still hear Spanish, then translate to English most of the time.

I'm from Poland and I was learning English over there for about 4 years and I only started thinking in English once I moved to Australia 3,5 years ago. Being surrounded by the language really helps and I would never ever manage to reach the level I am on now (fluent but still making mistakes) without living in English-speaking country for some time. I am now planning to move to Spain in about year and a half and in preparation I started learning Spanish about 4 months ago. I am putting lots of effort into learning and I think I am making progress pretty fast but I know from my experience with learning English that I will never become fluent in Spanish until I actually live in Spain, work there, interact with local people, watch tv, read books, simply completely immerse myself into the language. Can't wait :)

[Beckett]

Hi all,

How did you reach the next level so?

Get a Spanish lover who doesn't speak English. ;) Failing that, practice, practice, practice. Here are my tips:

Talk to yourself in Spanish throughout the day. You already have an internal dialogue with yourself in English, just switch it up to Spanish a few minutes each day.
Talk to your dog, cat or whatever pet you may have, in Spanish.
Do language intercambios via Skype or face-to-face.
Look for a local Spanish conversation group via MeetUp.com or start your own.
Plan an extended language learning vacation in a Spanish-speaking country.
Do volunteer work where you get to use the language and interact with people in Spanish.
Write short stories in Spanish and then read them to your intercambio for corrections.
Read Spanish-language newspapers, blogs, books.
Listen to Spanish radio/podcasts, watch Spanish TV. I'm sure there are other ways. With a little creativity and consistency, you can raise your Spanish level. Suerte. :)

[Steve W]

Hi, here is a tool (http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info?_id=jGJlflJb3RGQLz_zX0sBXw) I wrote for looking up phrases or words in context (the context being El Pais, presumably grammatically accurate). Just type in your search term and see what pops up.

I'll be trying to improve the results it returns and maybe try and make the words searched for Bold or something. Work in progress and I'm learning as I go.

[Margot]

Hi, here is a tool (http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info?_id=jGJlflJb3RGQLz_zX0sBXw) I wrote for looking up phrases or words in context (the context being El Pais, presumably grammatically accurate). Just type in your search term and see what pops up.
I'll be trying to improve the results it returns and maybe try and make the words searched for Bold or something. Work in progress and I'm learning as I go.

What a wild coincidence...because......many months ago Omeyas (Frank) posted a message in the forum describing doing just that....i.e. using ElPais as a tool to find correct usage of any phrase or word.....and as I recall - what one typed was very short and simple (only I cant recall if one typed it in the URL or in Google search, which seems to make more sense - only I don't remember that it even required this extra step:confused:) - and up would pop a ton of recent articles in which your phrase (or word) appeared, used correctly.
I've hunted thru the forum trying to find his post - perhaps you'll have better luck if you try (let me know if you do)
because I thought it was invaluable and o-so-simple!

[Margot]

just re-read you message and now see that the link in it is YOUR tool. Sorry ...didn't realize - tho I'd still love to find Omeyas message - because one didn't have to go to yahoo first.....but thanks in any case!

[Steve W]

Er, I seem to remember writing that post myself way back when.

the Google trick is

"your search phrase" site:elpais.com

and using that trick I can find my original post

elpais search phrase site:www.notesfromspain.com/forums (http://www.google.es/search?aq=f&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=jby&q=elpais+search+phrase+site%3Awww.notesfromspain.c om%2Fforums&btnG=Search&meta=) :)

[Margot]

:D:thumbs-up::blush: That's it!
(tho I would swear Frank "swiped";) the idea from you sometime later - because I would not have seen it back in Aug. 2006 when you wrote that - I don't tend to search the archives).
The reason (I will admit to you )- I prefer this to the other - is that it gives the article and date etc. - and sometimes (like if youre in a fist fight :D;D;) over definitions or usage or whatever - you can cite ElPais - a "higher authority" (as George Bush (in)famously said when referring to God).
Gracias tanto Steve.

[gastephen]

Here's another handy google search tip:

If your search phrase contains a word with an accent in it, and you only want to get results for the accented version, prefix the word with a +

By default google will include both the accented and unaccented forms of the word as search terms.

For example, if you type té into the search box, you'll get about 1.4 billion results, containng both forms te and té.

But if you type in +té, you only get the hits for the té form (and a meagre 32 million of them, no less).

[Charm2]

Mistakes are the planks in the bridge to your goal (Fluency). You can't get to the other side without making them. Embrace and celebrate them. In the moment you make one, your nerves are so worked up and your embarrassed so your senses are heightened- usually you remember the mistake (and it's correction) because you remember the mortification of it, right? Use that to your advantage. Right down those embarrassing moments and their antidote. EMBRACE IT. If you let your fear of mistakes shut your mouth you are robbing yourself of what you want, and not allowing yourself to be human. We all make mistakes. A child learning to use a language bluchers it before mastering it. That fact is each mistake is an opportunity to learn, so make the humiliation worth it and get something out of it but don't reject it, because you have to cross the bridge to get to the other side and it's PAVED with mistakes.

[Learn Spanish]

I couldn't agree more. I don't think any of us want to make mistakes. It's natural to make them but also natural to feel embarrassed when we do. (Kind of funny I think.) Maybe we're embarrassed because of the way people react when we do make them...I don't know.

I have found that most native Spanish speakers are thrilled to have someone ask them how they would say something in Spanish. (As long as you don't go overboard with asking questions).

A wonderful way to learn is link removed that I came across. It shows the most common topics that people talk about on the streets, in their homes, with friends, and family. It's pretty cool.

It's not advanced, because most people don't use heavy grammatical structures when they talk to people. They just talk.

So just a tip for anyone that is trying to learn. It's a great place to start learning what is and isn't practical in everyday situations.

[mvolz]

:) I found the site xxxxxxx with some useful (free) exercises for Spanish beginners.

[JWood424]

Hola a todos

While I am relatively new to this forum, I have been working on my Spanish speaking ability for about the last year. I have tried as many different approaches as I can, searching for the most effective one for myself. I discovered that while some people learn by reading, others learn by speaking while others may learn in other ways. I have tried to vary my learning as much as possible, going from watching television to reading novels to trying in vain to talk with some of my Spanish speaking employees. I took the basic language classes in high school, but that was ten years ago, and today I find myself trying to recall so much that I learned way back when. In hindsight, I wish I had given it more attention when I was younger. Like many of you, I find myself getting extremely embarrassed when I make mistakes when speaking to others. Often I will catch myself and chastise myself for making silly mistakes I should know better than to make, such as using the wrong verb form. Often those I am speaking with will simply go on, understanding what I meant to say even if it came out wrong. I found my biggest fear comes not from speaking to native Spanish speakers but to those who are fluent in both English and Spanish. This is perhaps because it would be so much easier for us both to simply speak English yet I stumble around trying to speak Spanish. I think fear is one of the biggest obstacles for any of us to overcome and I while I am gaining more confidence every day, I still feel my heart jump into my throat at times when I want to speak Spanish but become too nervous.

One learning idea I have been pondering in my head for a few days now is this. As children, we all went to school and began learning the basics...reading, writing, arithmetic, etc., and while these were all seperate subjects, they all relied on our basic understanding of our native language. When I was younger, I had math, science, social studies (history) and English, which included reading and writing. Since we are all beginners at speaking Spanish, would it make sense to approach it as beginners in school? Is there a way in which I could study basic education in Spanish as way to improve my ability to speak. Instead of studying high school level verb conjugations for example, could I simply begin learning the early history of Spain, or the history of the universe, or how to add and subtract in Spanish. Watching children's cartoons in Spanish has actually helped me a bit as they tend to speak slower and more clearly than in the adult programs, and this is what lead me to believe I could learn more by treating my education as that of a child beginning school. I am eager to hear what others think on this subject and I would love to know if anyone knew of a way I could truly try this out. I have considered searching Amazon.com for childrens text books in Spanish, but I am on a bit of a fixed budget and would rather not go crazy buying up books. Again, if anyone has any thoughts on this, please share it here with me. As Ben has said over and over again, motivation is key to learning!

[pjasso]

Three: Total Immersion.
Surround yourself with Spanish, bath yourself in Spanish! Watch Spanish films, or Spanish TV via satelite or the net, read Spanish magazines and newspapers, get a decent text book from the local bookshop, buy a decent dictionary (and a pocket one (http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0007126255)). Get hold of novels or ‘readers’ that match your abilities. A reader is a reduced, graded book with a range of vocab that matches your level. Estimate your level by picking up a reader in the bookshop and reading a page. If you have trouble with around 6 words then this is your level. More than 6 and it is too high, less and it is too low. More or total immersion here (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1047).

To add to Total Immersion-- What pushes me the most is moving in with a Spanish-only-speaking family and study in a Spanish-speaking country. I go to Mexico every summer for a month, and take classes during the day, but before I go, I eat breakfast with the family, come home for la comida and talk about my day-- just like a kid at the dinner table-- and I'm 50+. My Spanish increases by leaps and bounds, as does my confidence when I immerse with a family. Then when I return home we write and email in Spanish, and I've made life-long friends.

[greytop]

Hola a todos.....
Since we are all beginners at speaking Spanish, would it make sense to approach it as beginners in school? Is there a way in which I could study basic education in Spanish as way to improve my ability to speak. Instead of studying high school level verb conjugations for example, could I simply begin learning the early history of Spain, or the history of the universe, or how to add and subtract in Spanish. ....Why not turn this idea on it's head and write/develop your own arithmetic or other classes. Children learn by repetition, so looking up unfamiliar words within this framework and using them again and again to produce mini lessons would make you retain material. Having an aim like this makes you do things you'd otherwise put off.
cody's cuentos (http://www.codyscuentos.com/) may also provide you with some light hearted inspiration.

[Dany]

Hola!
Para mi aprender espanol es un poco como un juego.
Los verbos, la grammatica, leer libros o ver pelis, escribir frases espanolas, hablar con nativos, escuchar podcastds, etc… todos los actividades son como parte de un puzzle enorme.
Entonces mi metodo propia es una gran mescla de todos .
Y me gusta porque quiero jugar! :D

Saludos, Dany
(correciones deseadas, por favor)

[student29]

Hi There! I have really dificulty's to learn Spanish... First i practice it with some good software. It helped me very well!! But now i just want a partner to talk spanish with... Do you know where i can find some dutsh students like me?

[Janna]

Hi There! I have really dificulty's to learn Spanish... First i practice it with some good software. It helped me very well!! But now i just want a partner to talk spanish with... Do you know where i can find some dutsh students like me?


you can look on intercambio.es

[elverde]

Para aprender espanol de verdad ven a Espana y coge un trabajo, se aseguro que en un mes estas fluente como una fuente, chaval vamos y tirate al agua que en el agua se aprende a nadar....

[JWood424]

Mientras estoy de acuerdo que es importante rodearse con el idioma, a veces, no es tan fácil como dice. Es decir, no puede aprender nadar sin agua. Yo vivo en los EEUU y no puedo viajar a Espana para aprender. Me gustaría hacerlo, pero en realidad, no es algo posible en este momento de mi vida. Muchas personas dicen "Vaya a Espana y muy pronto puede hablar perfectamente." Desafortunadamente esto no es un buen solución por todos. Todavía, leo libros en español y miro peliculas en español, pero para pasar todo de mi día con español no es posible. Practico tan mucho como posible pero imersión es muy difícil en un país donde el español no es el idioma nativo. Es cierto que hay muchas personas aquí que hablan español, pero solo es un poco por ciento de todos las personas. Es porque vengo aquí para practicar un poco y compartir ideas con otros. Me gusta estes foros mucho y espero puedo seguir aprender aquí con todos.

[Ikibok]

I found some free online lessons - Spanish grammar and exercises (http://www.onlinespanish.org/learn-spanish-free.html)

[dancer]

These are all really good tips. The trick I think is completely immersing yourself, and making spanish-speaking friends. They do say that the quickest way to becoming fluent in a language is to get a local boyfriend/girlfriend of the language ;)
Other things that I find useful when learning a language: read as much as you can- if a novel is too much work, start with articles or even cartoon books. Watch movies or get hooked on a tv series. And other things like listening to spanish music, or listening to spanish podcasts

[pepsi]

Hey ben thanks for the tips, i'm just starting out learning spanish and i've written a short blog post on how i'm going to use some of the tips you have mentiond, i do plan on blogging about some more of the tips you have given us but thought i would share this short blog post

Studying Spanish Blog (http://www.studyingspanish.co.uk/2009/10/14/general/general-spanish-learning-tips/)

- Its basically my journey of learning a new langauge :)

[marryroy01]

I am marry. Those are the really good tips for me. I do not know about others what's in their mind. I want to learn the spanish because of It is really sweet language. I like it so much. I also like the spanish songs of Ricky Martin, Celine Dion, Enrique eglesious. I like it so much.

[jj29]

ive just started lsitening to a spanish audiobook (bought on the US amazon site) - Angeles y Demonios by Dan Brown. I can really reccommend it.

I'm also a big fan learning Spanish with audio lessons. I don't like learning Spanish in a class setting and textbooks just make my head spin.

With audio lessons I can learn when and wherever I want in my own time and I can reply the lesson until I feel comfortable enough to progress to the next level...

[pitterson]

Remember that language is first and foremost oral communication. Try to develop a "good ear" for Spanish. An easy and fun way to do this is by listening to Spanish music, watching Spanish movies or Dvd, or watching Spanish TV. You will also start to understand why certain words or phrases are used instead of others, and you will start to use them in your own conversations and writing. Spanish will start to become a habit, and little by little you will find it easier to use Spanish .

[richardksa]

An easy and fun way to do this is by listening to Spanish music, watching Spanish movies or Dvd, or watching Spanish TV.
Even more fun, if you live in a Spanish speaking country, but I suppose possible even on the London Underground, is to evesdrop on conversations. I was listening to a little girl talking to grandma yesterday and she was, of course using simple language, and grandma was doing likewise. It was all typical childish nonsense, but great practise for the ear. But get two women gossiping on the Madrid metro and you can be entertained and instructed at the same time.;D

[Pippa]

But get two women gossiping on the Madrid metro and you can be entertained and instructed at the same time.;D

¡Cotilla!:D;)

[bana_dipu]

Spanish is no more difficult.....It's amazing to learn

[thatguy71]

I found that the best way to stay motivated to learn is to really immerse myself in the language.
I cook spanish food at home when i can and listen to spanish tv or radio when its on. Not alot of access that in Australia, but is in the mornings.
Found that it helps me think Spanish and feel at ease. Keeping interested is the key, its not just about learning words, but learning the culture too

[lovelydee]

I think the phone is the biggest barrier of all, so don't worry, you are not alone! Why is it so much harder to speak to someone on the phone in another language than it is in person?

That's because we also lip-read when we talk to someone. Especially when we talk with somebody using a foreign language, we tend to read the lips to help us understand what they are saying. We cant do lip-reading over the phone, which makes it difficult talking to someone using a language we just learned, especially when they are talking really fast.

[Uriel]

You also can't distinguish well between some of the consonants over the phone, which impedes your understanding. We can cope with this problem better in our native tongue because we can guess what they are probably saying a lot more accurately, but try that with unfamiliar vocabulary and it's suddenly no picnic.

[freebird]

What you listed are comprehensive and useful ,i will try to use them ,thanks .

[bertopola]

The key for learning spanish is not to focus on details, is to learn the whole meaning of the expressions.

[travelee]

Twelve: Remember that you learn through mistakes...

You cannot let mistakes get to you. Everyone makes them! Its what makes you human. This is something you have to take on board when learning a language. So what if you said 'polla' when you meant 'pollo'? ;)

People forgive and forget. Mistakes are how we learn. Just laugh about it and move on...

agree with you, if we make the mistakes and then correct them we will remember about the correct variant next time. it is my personal experience also.