Americans working in Spain.

[Ben]

A: The happy-go-lucky no-work-Visa way:

Here are a few tips I picked up from a recent chat with an American girl who has been working out here for over two years with no EU citizenship and no problems whatsoever. (Of course these rules apply to all non-EU citizens.) Please don't hold me responsible if any of the following changes with time! (With your help we can keep this info up-to-date).

One: You can work!
If you turn up in Spain without a work visa, you will find work, mostly English teaching, bar work and maybe tour guiding. Employers in these fields are prepared to pay non-EU nationals - in cash. But don’t worry, you can open a bank account in Spain with no trouble at all.

Bigger cities will have more work opportunities, so if in doubt start with Barcelona or Madrid.

Two: The return ticket.
Arriving at a Spanish airport from the US with no return ticket is likely to be an expensive mistake. You will probably be forced to buy one there and then, in the airport, at a hugely increased price. You may be able to get a refund afterwards though, so it might not be the end of the world.

Three: The 90 day rule.
In theory your entry visa is good for 90 days, but don’t worry, if you spend longer in Spain you will not be thrown into jail or banned from coming back when you try to leave. Just have an excuse handy (”My Spanish studies lasted longer than I had anticipated…”, for example…)

Four: Spending.
Don’t turn up with travelers cheques, they are a pain to convert into cash. Just your regular cashpoint card is fine. Match the symbols on the back with those on Spanish cashpoints if you get confused! (Is ‘cashpoint’ only British English? ATM’s then…) And be prepared to spend. The dollar is better than it was but many a traveler arrives in Spain expecting the cheap country it once was. Times have changed…

---------

Any further info on American citizens working in Spain with or without a visa, comments, suggestions, criticisms or refutations, are welcome below:

[Dan]

How old is too old to work in Spain? In Central and South America you are considered too old to work at 35.

[Ben]

I would say that here the answer would be the same for the UK or the states.

[Cynthia]

You're making it far too easy for me to "miss my flight" back home when I visit Spain! ;)

(PS I do think "cashpoint" is a British term. Thanks for clarifying that it's an ATM, though--I got worried for a split-second because I didn't have one of these things!)

[Viajero26]

I visited Spain for a couple of weeks last year and absolutely fell in love with it. Since then I've been trying to find ways to get back to Spain- and stay. For a while I was quite discouraged when reading about the ability of North Americans to be employed in Spain, but this forum has definitely reinvigorated my desire to return to Spain. Thanks for the advice!
PS- The podcast is amazing, Ben & Marina- keep it up!

[Edith]

How old is too old to work in Spain? In Central and South America you are considered too old to work at 35.

:eek:

But too young to apply for a pension! :rolleyes:

[richardksa]

Ten years ago I was turned down for a job in Europe as I was too old at 46. They never hired above 35 I was told. But they also needed 12 years experience and the ability to speak French!!! Within a week though, I had got my present job here in Saudi and found I was working for a company part-owned by the company that had turned me down. Suddenly we had a lot of young engineers sent to us for training. There's a moral there somewhere.

[Viajero26]

I noticed in your initial post that you advised to be prepared to spend. While I know that the cost of living in Madrid can be relatively high, I was wondering exactly what numbers you could come up with for someone who was thinking about traveling to and staying in Madrid. Does a job search last very long (for someone wanting to teach English) and is it very expensive?

[acmench]

Does a job search last very long (for someone wanting to teach English) and is it very expensive?

Hi, Viajero,

I can't speak about the cost of living in Spain, now as I lived there a little over 3 years ago. However, I did work for 2 years as a "all cash" English teacher. :)

Regarding the job search, simply finding a job in Madrid was fairly easy. The best places to look for job listings are the Spanish newspapers and a pretty popular English language magazine, In Madrid. http://in-madrid.com/class.html It's also an okay resource for finding rentals, flatmates, etc. You can also just look up language academies in the phone book and give them a call to see if they're hiring. In my experience there's fairly high turnover, particularly among the academies that hire Americans. There are a number of schools (some of the best, in fact) that won't hire you without papers. But there also PLENTY that have no problem hiring Americans (or Canadiens, Australians, etc) and some even prefer to.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of academies don't have their normal arsenal of teachers and classes during the summer. A lot of students choose to take that time off. If you are hoping to work in the summer, a good option is to find a job at an English summer camp. There seem to be a lot of those, although I never did it myself.

I would say you should put together a resume, include your picture, and, once you get there, start calling around. Good luck!!

[MateoB678]

Hello, I'm new to this site and I simply love it all, the podcasts and the forums. Great Work!!!;D

I had a quick question about teaching english. I plan to move to Spain in March and will need some income fairly soon after I arrive. My question: is it worth the investment of time and money to take a course to get your TESOL certificate, or would I be able to find a job right away without any certifications. I've seen some websites that offer the course and help find you a job after completing the course. Any tips or experiences or information would be greatly appreciated!!!!;D

Thanks,
Matt

[melissinda]

i am brand new to the forum and to the podcasts, but i can't get enough of them! The moment i hear the sweet sound of the madrilenan accent i nearly cried! :blush: I spent this past year in madrid studying at Complutense, and as seems to be a popular response, fell absolutely in love with it. They had to force me on the plane to go home. :p

As i graduate from college this coming may it is of course on my mind to find a way back to spain, even for a brief time (brief being a few years!) i met many people, even some americans, who teach english in madrid and have for years, however... they all somehow have EU passports, this of course was discouraging as i have nothing of the kind.
I have a few questions about what Ben posted... if you enter the country they know if you have bought a one way ticket? and they will make you buy your return ticket on the spot?

if i was to go over and teach english without papers, and i didn't leave the country until a few years later, will they question why i was there for x number of years? the excuse that my studies went on longer seems like it might not hold up in that instance.

is it possible to get working papers through an english school, if they hire you, will they help you get your papers? or do you need them before you even apply?

also, is an international company such as starbucks an option. is it possible, if you work at a starbucks in the states to request a transfer in other countries?

sorry, so many questions! Thank you again!

[acmench]

Hey, Melissinda,

I know how you feel about loving Madrid and wanting to get back there. I lived there for 2 years and have been away for about 3 1/2. My husband (a Madrileño I met while there) and I are moving back over there in April. I CANNOT wait!!! Anyway, here's my insight into being an American working in Spain...

i met many people, even some americans, who teach english in madrid and have for years, however... they all somehow have EU passports, this of course was discouraging as i have nothing of the kind.
I have a few questions about what Ben posted... if you enter the country they know if you have bought a one way ticket? and they will make you buy your return ticket on the spot?

I lived in Spain for 2 years and didn't have an EU passport. I left and re-entered Spain from the US probably 5 times and re-entered from elsewhere in Europe another 4 times or so. I was never asked to show a return ticket when entering the country. In all likelihood when you are first entering from the States you'll have a return ticket anyway; it's much cheaper to buy them that way.

if i was to go over and teach english without papers, and i didn't leave the country until a few years later, will they question why i was there for x number of years? the excuse that my studies went on longer seems like it might not hold up in that instance.
I was asked once when leaving the country why I had a return ticket to Spain. I fed them the line about roundtrip tickets being cheaper and they were satisfied with that. In my experience the Guardia Civil working the passport booth at the airport took about 3 seconds to glance at the picture and then turned to the next empty page for the stamp.

is it possible to get working papers through an english school, if they hire you, will they help you get your papers? or do you need them before you even apply?
I worked for 3 different academies and none were willing to help with papers. I've heard that occasionally they will but I think it's mostly for teachers they've employed for years.


also, is an international company such as starbucks an option. is it possible, if you work at a starbucks in the states to request a transfer in other countries?
While there I taught English to an executive at Shell Oil. Being a civil engineer and an American, I thought it possible they'd have a position for me. My student asked around but was told that hiring undocumented Americans is low on the list. They must first offer the job to Spanish citizens and residents, then to EU citizens, and then to outside foreigners. That's not to say that a company wouldn't transfer you, but I don't see it being overly likely.

Hope this helps and good luck!!!
Amy

[melissinda]

Amy,
thank you so much for all that information! ;D It helped a great deal! It is always nice to know that it IS possible, as difficult and frustrating as the process may be, it is a possibility. One which i must pursue asap! thank you again!

melissa

[ogando]

What happens to people who are over 35?
Are they forced to wear black and sit in parks feeding the pigeons.
We must be working somewhere.

[Acosta]

How old is too old to work in Spain? In Central and South America you are considered too old to work at 35.

So what does one do with the other 35 to 45 years of their life, in those areas?

[sandy]

is it possible to get working papers through an english school, if they hire you, will they help you get your papers? or do you need them before you even apply?


My experience is from many years ago but I am quite sure the regulations have not changed much. You need to have an offer letter from your employer before you can even apply. Once you get the offer letter, you need to have get a medical exam, a local police clearance, fill out some forms and go to the Spanish consulate to apply for an entrance visa. That will take a few months at least. Once it is approved, they will notify you at an American address since you are not supposed to be working in Spain yet.

Once you get the visa, which is a sticker in your passport, you can then go to Spain, to apply for the working permit. You have 30 days to do it. The working permit will take another few months. Whether you can work in the meantime is in the grey area. I was told even I didn't have a working permit yet, I could start working. But then you have to sort out how your employer pays you until you get the proper documentation.

Conclusion, it takes a long time to get the working permit, and the application starts with the Spanish Consulate before you come. If you want to do everything legally, find an employer early.

In any case, I was told that the Spanish government keeps an eye closed when it comes to people holding an American passports. Don't quote me on that.

Someone (sorry I forgot the name) has already posted that you will not normally be asked to show your return ticket when you enter the country. I never had to do it in any country as a matter of fact.

sandy
-------------
www.excelwines.com (http://www.excelwines.com)

[MonikaD.]

Hola all!

Seriously thinking of moving to Spain, I'm concerned about job opportunities for English teachers who are not native speakers of this language (like myself :)). Obviously, we can hardly compete with you guys, but do we stand a chance?

[eazyebeneezer]

Hola all!

Seriously thinking of moving to Spain, I'm concerned about job opportunities for English teachers who are not native speakers of this language (like myself :)). Obviously, we can hardly compete with you guys, but do we stand a chance?

TEFL certification will definitely help. that's your calling card and proof of not only linguistic, but teaching qualifications. sometimes non-native speakers make better teachers, having already learned the language themselves. and judging from your three lines, you have no issues with english :)

[Damian Corrigan]

you will find work ... maybe tour guiding



I'd be careful with this - tour guides need to be officially certified (and you'll need to be legal to get this). If you try working this way, you'll be breaking the law in two ways. Especially in Madrid, police/trading standards officers grab people who look like they are giving guided tours and ask to see your ID. If you are working illegally, you ought to keep your head down a little, so running guided tours is a dangerous thing to do.

I've also heard that bars are clamping down on illegal works - again, they're quite visual. Teaching is easier, but even then, I've found schools have rejected US teachers for academy work, because, again, they're easily caught - they prefer to send them to business classes, because no one is going to be checking 8am classes! But Madrid and Barcelona are packed with US citizens teaching illegally, so don't worry, you'll find work - I'd say only a third would turn you down. But a TEFL qualification will aid you more than a legal citizen - they're more likely to stick their neck out and hire you if they at least know you're qualified - taking an illegal AND unqualified/inexperienced teacher is a little risky and the school would need to be quite desperate to do so - thankfully, many schools ARE desperate!

Damian

[RojiBlanco34]

is there a reason that nobody has mentioned other jobs such as Cafés, or cervercerías, etc? are those type of jobs untouchable?

[Spanish people]

It depends on the city, but official guides are very few and the tourism market is so big, running guided tours is NOT a dangerous thing to do.

[tierra-de-olas]

I thought anyone who wanted to officially work in Spain needed to take and pass the DELE, the Spanish equivalent of the TOEFL?

[DCkid]

Here´s my 2 cents on this.

Bar work is usually found in the more touristic areas such as Benidorm, Marbella etc. My father owns a place in Marberlla, but usually hires Argentinians, when they are not complaining. Expect to be explioted. No matter what your always going to find an employer taking advantage of your situation here. I can´t even tell how many people I known that have had falling outs with "friends" hiring them for bar work. Business is business

Best Advice is to prep from the States. If your looking for a job, before getting over here try www.infojobs.net all 3 jobs I found here in Spain working for large multinationals I got through that site. If you type english in the search you will find tons of work. Send resumes´s explain your situation. If your good they might take the chance. So sell yourself :)

Hope this helps

[meghan]

hey all! I am planning to move to Madrid in September and was wondering if anyone knows or has heard of anyone that has applied for an internship in Spain from overseas. Two agencies, Instituto Hemingway and BEST Programs, offer (for a fee) to find housing and an internship in a specified field in addition to language classes, an orientation, etc. I have not heard much about how accredited these organizations are or how likely it is that I would be able to find a decent internship, but if any of you have suggestions, please let me know. I am actually looking to work in the art world in some capacity (a museum or gallery) but because I don't have much experience, I was thinking of looking for an internship first. Thanks! Any leads or help would be greatly appreciated! -meghan

[Beckett]

hey all! I am planning to move to Madrid in September and was wondering if anyone knows or has heard of anyone that has applied for an internship in Spain from overseas. Two agencies, Instituto Hemingway and BEST Programs, offer (for a fee) to find housing and an internship in a specified field in addition to language classes, an orientation, etc. I have not heard much about how accredited these organizations are or how likely it is that I would be able to find a decent internship, but if any of you have suggestions, please let me know. I am actually looking to work in the art world in some capacity (a museum or gallery) but because I don't have much experience, I was thinking of looking for an internship first. Thanks! Any leads or help would be greatly appreciated! -meghan

Meghan,
Save your money. You would be better off contacting galleries in Madrid on your own and offering your services to volunteer there. I assume that you're willing to work for free, right? In Spain, the paid internship doesn't exist and there is a lot of exploitation in the labor market.

[ryanjames]

hello
i have been living and working in spain
without papers for about 5 months now.
i must return to the states for a family
emergency, but i want to come back
to finish working.

if i leave spain and stay a week or 2 in the US, will i be able to re-enter spain
without a problem
thanks
rj

[Beckett]

hello
i have been living and working in spain
without papers for about 5 months now.
i must return to the states for a family
emergency, but i want to come back
to finish working.

if i leave spain and stay a week or 2 in the US, will i be able to re-enter spain
without a problem
thanks
rj

Technically, you've overstayed, but whether or not you get stopped at the airport will depend on whether the airline and/or the Spanish Guardia Civil at the Spanish airport you fly into take a closer look at your passport and decide to stop you. It can go either way.

[ryanjames]

so what happens if i get stoped,
and it would be better to fly into a larger airport then

[Kevin Salami]

Could you help me out on these questions?

1)I am moving to Madrid Spain. The employer told me that the income tax on 100,000 Euro is around %45! Is it true? the government take half of the money that we make there?
2)how much is the rent for a 3 bed 2 bath middle class family in Madrid?
3)what is the living expenses for a 2 adults and a baby there?
4)can I bring my car over from U.S?

I appreciated for your time.
Kevin

[Beckett]

Could you help me out on these questions?

1)I am moving to Madrid Spain. The employer told me that the income tax on 100,000 Euro is around %45! Is it true? the government take half of the money that we make there?
2)how much is the rent for a 3 bed 2 bath middle class family in Madrid?
3)what is the living expenses for a 2 adults and a baby there?
4)can I bring my car over from U.S?

I appreciated for your time.
Kevin

Congrats on your new job! Yes, taxes are much higher in Europe but don't worry. You're receiving an excellent salary. An annual salary of 100,000€ probably puts you in the top 10% of wage-earners in Spain. Regarding your car, depends on the make and model. Cars in Spain tend to be rather small, in comparison to the average vehicle in the U.S. Gas prices are higher and parking is hard to come by in the city and would be impossible to deal with if you're driving a SUV or some other large vehicle.

Regarding housing costs: www.idealista.com
Also, worth a look: www.SpainExpat.com. They have a category on moving to Spain as well as access to cost of living calculators.

http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/cost_of_living_in_spain/

Good luck!

[Beckett]

Another thing...I assume that your new employer will assist you with relocating from the U.S. A talk with their relocation service or somebody in their HR dept should also be able to answer some of these questions. ¡Suerte!

[meghan]

Hello to everyone. To all of you who have replied from Spain (or who lived in Spain), your advice has been particularly helpful, and I'm so grateful! Of course thanks to Ben and Marina for the podcast and website- its awesome and much needed! On one of the "Notes From Spain" podcasts, on living in Spain I guess, I think ya'll (Ben and Marina) mentioned the importance of an ID card for doing a lot of different things in Spain. I am from the US and am moving in about 3 weeks to Madrid to work in the education department at the Museo del Prado for basically a 3-month internship (that I hope to extend!). According to the company I applied through who has found housing for me, I do not need any sort of visa for this- just my passport (as a "tourist" i guess). I'm a little worried about this/confused and am wondering what the visa for residency actually entails. Furthermore, pertaining to my first issue, will I literally HAVE to (theoretically) obtain an ID card to be able to use my credit card- I guess I can answer that because I assume for "tourists" or those without a visa, one just shoes his/her passport as ID. Can you see any reason I would HAVE to have an ID card for the next few months if I will be working as an intern (maybe earning a stipend) and (hopefully) working (illegally, I guess) as an English tutor/teacher? Thanks again for your help and for everyone's comments. I'd appreciate any advice/suggestions!

[Beckett]

Hi Meghan,
Welcome to the forum! Regarding the ID card you mentioned, it's called the "tarjeta de extranjero" or the NIE. Unfortunately, as a U.S. citizen you will not be able to get this card without a valid visa issued by the Spanish consulate. You can go here for more info: http://www.maec.es/consulados/nuevayork/es/home (http://www.maec.es/consulados/nuevayork/es/home)

That web site is for the NYC Spanish consulate. You can search on Google for the Spanish consulate closest to where you live.

By the way, the NIE is not a work visa/work permit. That is a separate document.

If you don't have a NIE, you can use your passport as identification when using your credit card. By the way, make sure to make a photocopy of your passport AND be sure to register online with the U.S. Embassy in Madrid. That way if your passport ever gets lost or stolen (God forbid), or something happens to you while in Spain, all of your information will already be in the system, expediting any request you may need to make.
U.S. citizens are allowed to stay in Spain for up to 90 days without a visa.

Good luck!
beckett

[holaquétal]

Hello everyone - I just joined the forum and I am really hoping that you guys have some answers for me because I have been searching the web for hours to no avail. It is really hard to find info regarding work.

Okay here is the deal - I am an eeuu citizen in spain on a student visa for 9 months and I really want to find part-time work in the restaurant sector - I don´t really care in what aspect - kitchen, front of house, whatever... I really don´t care about the money or the exploitation - i just think it would be good for my spanish and my psyche and yes, even my wallet a little bit. So I guess my question is...is this legal? I have seen conflicting explanations. It seems that maybe I can work part-time if it doesn´t conflict with my studies?? (but can´t seem to find any specific info to support that) Or if it is ilegal - is it possible and how? Would I get deported, as some say? (that seems highly unlikely if you ask me, but than why do they say it?) Can I just walk into a bar that has a sign up and ask? Also what does it mean when they want ¨documentación en regla¨ - can i fill out that documentation? Well, I guess you get the gist for now. Please respond - if working is a really bad idea I need to know now so I can move on and stop wondering. Thanks!!!!

[holaquétal]

So, if one has the student visa, can you explain how to get the nie card. I need to do that too. Thanks!

[Eve]

Hi there, I'm a New Zealander, so I assume the same rules apply to me as Americans?

I'm heading over to Spain next year to do my CELTA course and then teach English (hopefully!) and what i'm wanting to know is whether I should apply for a Spanish student Visa for this?? Or do I just come into the country as a tourist and then sort the 90 day issue out later once I have a job.

If anyone can shed some light on this I'd be most grateful! thanks!

[greytop]

I came across this site (http://www.spainlawyer.com/guialegal/guialegal.cfm?IDCAPITULO=08040000) (spainlawyer.com) that has info on studying/living/working in Spain. Check internet sources though as they may be out of date & don't come with guarantees!
I hope it helps somebody!

[virgeved]

Hello everyone - I just joined the forum and I am really hoping that you guys have some answers for me because I have been searching the web for hours to no avail. It is really hard to find info regarding work.

Okay here is the deal - I am an eeuu citizen in spain on a student visa for 9 months and I really want to find part-time work in the restaurant sector - I don´t really care in what aspect - kitchen, front of house, whatever... I really don´t care about the money or the exploitation - i just think it would be good for my spanish and my psyche and yes, even my wallet a little bit. So I guess my question is...is this legal? I have seen conflicting explanations. It seems that maybe I can work part-time if it doesn´t conflict with my studies?? (but can´t seem to find any specific info to support that) Or if it is ilegal - is it possible and how? Would I get deported, as some say? (that seems highly unlikely if you ask me, but than why do they say it?) Can I just walk into a bar that has a sign up and ask? Also what does it mean when they want ¨documentación en regla¨ - can i fill out that documentation? Well, I guess you get the gist for now. Please respond - if working is a really bad idea I need to know now so I can move on and stop wondering. Thanks!!!!

A student visa en Spain allows you to work a maximum of 20 hours a week, in a job that does not conflict with your school schedule. for example if you have class in the afternoon you can only work mornings. You need to go to the police station in the town you are living...first apply for the NIE card with your visa, this might take up to 3 or 4 months, but they will give you a paper that you can use the same as the card, and once you have the card, or resguardo of the card you can apply for the work permit.

once you have the permit to work, alot of times employers will let you work more than the 20 hours alotted (off the record)

Good luck!

[greytop]

If you're thinking of earning a bit outside the system this (http://www.expatica.com/es/articles/news/Immigrants-forced-to-work-55_hour-week-for-EUR-230-wage.html) may be of interest.
From other posts & news items about the sub-1000 € per month workers, they weren't being paid that much less than legal workers although the hours were longer. Interesting to know what the agricultural workers pick up!
Unfortunately there is no follow up as to what they are supposed to do now, presumably without any income at all.

Immigrants forced to work 55-hour week for EUR 230 wage 13/02/2008 00:00

The owner of a restaurant in Bilbao has been detained by police after it emerged that he was forcing his illegal immigrant staff to work 55-hour weeks for a salary of EUR 230.

[katya]

Hi all,
I am in Barcelona and have been here for a week now. It's March and so my 90 days will be up at the beginning of June. I'd like to stay here at least through the summer. I'm in a Spanish school and only enrolled for two months.

1)If I extend my studies in the school through the summer, can I get a Student Visa while I'm already in Spain? Or do I have to go home to Boston's Spanish Consulate?

2)The 90 day rule applies to the EU, no? If you are in Spain for 90 days, you have to leave the EU for 90 days until you can come back? Or can you go to another country in the EU, say France?

Thanks for your help!
-Katya

[eldeano]

Hola Katya. Bienvenida al foro. :thumbs-up:

[kronos]

Hey everyone,

I lived in Spain off and on for nearly six years without having any visas or work permits, and I know plenty of other non-EU folks in the same boat. Finding work as an English teacher is not a problem -- even the academies who claim in their ads that they only hire EU passport holders will almost always hire non-EUers as well (it's a bit of a tax break for them anyways...) Unfortunately it's a lot harder to get any other sort of job (like bartending, tour guide, etc.) if you're not legal because you're a lot more "exposed"... With teaching English, the academy sends you off to the clients' homes or offices, so it's more difficult for authorities to track you down.

Hope this helps, and good luck to all the Americans who want to join us in Spain!

kronos

www.allthingsspain.net (http://www.allthingsspain.net)
http://eslhell-thepaininspain.blogspot.com/

[ErnieLG]

Hey everyone,

I lived in Spain off and on for nearly six years without having any visas or work permits, and I know plenty of other non-EU folks in the same boat. Finding work as an English teacher is not a problem -- even the academies who claim in their ads that they only hire EU passport holders will almost always hire non-EUers as well (it's a bit of a tax break for them anyways...) Unfortunately it's a lot harder to get any other sort of job (like bartending, tour guide, etc.) if you're not legal because you're a lot more "exposed"... With teaching English, the academy sends you off to the clients' homes or offices, so it's more difficult for authorities to track you down.

Hope this helps, and good luck to all the Americans who want to join us in Spain!

kronos

www.allthingsspain.net (http://www.allthingsspain.net)
http://eslhell-thepaininspain.blogspot.com/
Does anyone know any academies or other businesses that have no problem hiring sin papeles? Is it safe to assume that most will hire you?

[MarsQ]

Hi all,
I'm an American citizen and I've been living in Madrid for almost 8 months now. I've been studying Spanish and in the last 4 months, I've started teaching English as a part-time job. However, just like many others, I would love to find a full-time/ professional job in an office. I have few friends that I met from school that are able to find jobs in offices easily because they are Europeans. But as I've heard, it is really difficult to get hired in a professional job since I am not an EU citizen. I've been feeling depressed and desperated. So, I just want to ask if anyone out there has the experience of finding an office job? Any Americans out there working in professional jobs in Spain? How do I find those jobs? And is there a job-search website(s) that posts English jobs?

Your information is greatly appreciated!
Thanks very much!

[Legazpi]

Hi MarsQ

The most popular site is www.infojobs.net (search for the word "english" and you should get several pages of results). Getting the work permit is another matter - I believe there may be a few tricks, but apparently it's very difficult (we get the same problem if trying to find work in the USA).

Do you have any specific skills that might help you find a job?

[MarsQ]

Hi Legazpi,
Thanks very much for your prompt reply and information. I will try my luck on the website info you've given me. Well, I think it's going to be tough for me because I have my academic degrees in Urban Planning and Environmental Science- both are specialized and small sectors which makes it pretty hard to find a job, as comparing to "Business Administration". I know it will be tough to find a job in those sectors in most countries. And in the states, I worked in an environmental nonprofit organization doing public education and accounting. I have few years of Administrative and research experience, which I hope it would qualify me in an office job. And I am a Chinese-American, so, I am bilingual (fluent in Chinese and English). But I still need to improve my Spanish. I need to look for American companies, I hope it would be easier with them to hire Americans. With the down-hill trend of the economy, I feel that the possibility to find a job here is getting more and more slim.
Thanks so much for your information.

[Legazpi]

Hi MarsQ

You might have luck targeting large multinationals who outsource to China and require your language skills. I searched for "chinese" on infojobs and got this vacancy that only requires a student visa:

http://madrid.oferta.infojobs.net/receptionist-chinese-english-spanish/of-i104332961156482185538439226203

You really need to fire off applications to any job for which you feel suitable, even if you feel under qualified. There are very few people in Madrid who are bilingual in Chinese and English, if you can get your Spanish skills up to a reasonable level you might find yourself in quite a powerful position for certain jobs.

Good luck

[MarsQ]

Legazpi, thank you so much again for your wonderful help. Your information certainly gave my energy a boost. I will give that job a try and just send my CV to other jobs that I may be qualified for. And indeed, I really need to sharpen up my Spanish skills.
Your help is very much appreciated!

[jenny102]

Hi

My situation is a little different. My husband ( a spaniard) has been living in the US for the past year on a very restrictive dependant visa. This visa basically gives you no rights with respect to any work or education . He has even been turned away from volunteering because he doesn't have a SSN! Uncle Sam however, finds no problem in asking him to pay taxes (to breathe the american air, I suppose!). He is quite depressed about his usefulness.My career (I am 27) is the only thing keeping us here.
Ironically, he was an self-employed english teacher in spain for over 10 years and paid taxes four a times a year!

I am not sure if working illegally anywhere is ever the right thing to do.


Just my two cents.

[Ivett]

Hi acmench (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/member.php?u=591),

I saw that you lived in Madrid for 2 years and worked teaching English. I was wondering if during that time you applied for a residence permit. Did you pay taxes? Or did you just stay under the radar? If the later were you able to rent an apartment and open a bank account with no problem? Thanks so much for all the advice. I'm new on the forum and have already received so much good info.

[greytop]

What's that thing they have in the U.S.? Oh yes, the fifth amendment ;)

[acmench]

Hi acmench (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/member.php?u=591),

I saw that you lived in Madrid for 2 years and worked teaching English. I was wondering if during that time you applied for a residence permit. Did you pay taxes? Or did you just stay under the radar? If the later were you able to rent an apartment and open a bank account with no problem? Thanks so much for all the advice. I'm new on the forum and have already received so much good info.

Hi, Ivett,

During my two years teaching English I never applied for my residency as I didn't really think there was much of a point. No taxes. All under the radar more or less. I rented an apartment and had a bank account (Banco Popular) for years. I necer had any problems in that regard. Let me know if you have any other questions. Suerte!!

[Skipper]

Hola a todos.

As a Spaniard native, I must say you that not everything in Spain is Madrid or Barcelona, and not every work here for english speakers goes through a Language School.

I live at Alicante, in the Mediteranean seashore. This is a full touristic area with a very pleseant temperature the whole year, and as touristic area is full of foreigners that have decided so coming here for a few days... or for not so few years. They come from all around Europe, from UK to Norway, Sweden, Germany... And beeing the english the more extended international language, as you can imagine there are a lot of english speakers working options, from translators to doctors, from barman to lawyers, from car rental clerks to airport workers... and sure... guides and english teachers :p

Now, there is a very big crisis all around the world, and Spain is not an exception, but if I had to look for a job in Spain now, I would try to find it via internet and I think that will be easier to you to find a future in Spain through this way on webs like www.infojobs.net (http://www.infojobs.net) or www.infoempleo.com (http://www.infoempleo.com) .. These are the more usuals, but you can type on your google or similar "Buscar Trabajo España" and you will find a lot of options.

I hope to have been helpful for you. Don't hesitate to PM me for any question.

Un saludo.

[Skipper]

Sorry for the mistake, greytop, and thanks for the edition. I just wanted to help.

Well, reading a local newspaper, today I've seen the a title as follows:

CASI 800 UNIVERSITARIOS ELIGEN CLASES EN INGLÉS.

And in a smaller letter you can read:

LA FALTA DE PROFESORES QUE DOMINEN EL IDIOMA, LA PRINCIPAL DIFICULTAD PARA IMPLANTAR EL TRILINGÜISMO

As you can see, Alicante University has no enough english speaking teachers...

Regards.

[Katie L]

Interesting discussion going on here. I am also curious on how one goes about finding a "real" job in Spain as an American.

I am about to finish up student teaching and will be a certified Spanish and journalism teacher (high school) here in the U.S. Does this carry any weight in terms of finding a teaching job in Spain? Would it be possible to get hired as a high school (instituto?) English teacher at a public or private school?

And lets say it is possible for me to locate some school that thinks I'd be a fabulous teacher. What are the legal requirements for secondary school teachers in Spain? Would I have to have an English or TESOL degree? Are there exams, etc, that teachers must take for certification? Would it be easier to work in a private secondary school?

It might be a totally unrealistic idea, but I'd be qualified in theory...as a language teacher and native English speaker.

[reesesc]

I'm trying to get a feel for how I should be going about this 'grey area' business. I'm taking CELTA in September at Hyland Language Centre and hope to stay in Madrid working as an English teacher. My question is that even though the tourist visa is for three months and I could make up an excuse as to why I stayed longer than that, how do I get back in if I leave? I'm just wondering if I'll be able to return to the states to visit (or leave the Schengen states at all). The rule says you can only live for 3 months out of every 6 months in Spain, so would they question me after seeing my passport on my way back to Madrid? I'd love to get a work visa but I don't know if that would ever happen/how long it takes to become autonomo....any thoughts?

[kaci]

What happens if you have a roundtrip flight but its not for seven months out? i plan on staying in Spain most of the time but traveling outside also and i dont want to be forced to buy a flight bc my return ticket is out of the 90 days? also I got my tefl certificate and plan on teaching English but im having a hard time finding any job openings?

[alicia21]

A: The happy-go-lucky no-work-Visa way:

Here are a few tips I picked up from a recent chat with an American girl who has been working out here for over two years with no EU citizenship and no problems whatsoever. (Of course these rules apply to all non-EU citizens.) Please don't hold me responsible if any of the following changes with time! (With your help we can keep this info up-to-date).

One: You can work!
If you turn up in Spain without a work visa, you will find work, mostly English teaching, bar work and maybe tour guiding. Employers in these fields are prepared to pay non-EU nationals - in cash. But don’t worry, you can open a bank account in Spain with no trouble at all.

Bigger cities will have more work opportunities, so if in doubt start with Barcelona or Madrid.

Two: The return ticket.
Arriving at a Spanish airport from the US with no return ticket is likely to be an expensive mistake. You will probably be forced to buy one there and then, in the airport, at a hugely increased price. You may be able to get a refund afterwards though, so it might not be the end of the world.

Three: The 90 day rule.
In theory your entry visa is good for 90 days, but don’t worry, if you spend longer in Spain you will not be thrown into jail or banned from coming back when you try to leave. Just have an excuse handy (”My Spanish studies lasted longer than I had anticipated…”, for example…)

Four: Spending.
Don’t turn up with travelers cheques, they are a pain to convert into cash. Just your regular cashpoint card is fine. Match the symbols on the back with those on Spanish cashpoints if you get confused! (Is ‘cashpoint’ only British English? ATM’s then…) And be prepared to spend. The dollar is better than it was but many a traveler arrives in Spain expecting the cheap country it once was. Times have changed…

---------

Any further info on American citizens working in Spain with or without a visa, comments, suggestions, criticisms or refutations, are welcome below:
great article. I will bookmark this

[borideponce]

my wife just left to Ibiza..she is American and is looking for work..does she need to contact an embassy or what should she do?

[itwasthewind]

Hello All -

I wanted to visit Barcelona for just a few weeks (about 12), so under the legal limit for time I can spend there. While I am there though, I would like to teach either English, or more specifically GMAT if possible (I have a very high score, and will be attending a top school in 2010). Would it be possible for me to find that sort of work either through an academy or privately?

If I want to try to secure students before I arrive, what online resource would one recommend I use?
Also, while I am an American citizen, I am also of Indian decent ... would that have any bearing on people being less willing to hire me? I don't know whether there are any preconceptions folks would have about my English teaching capabilities?

Any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks everyone!

[Beckett]

Hello All -

I wanted to visit Barcelona for just a few weeks (about 12), so under the legal limit for time I can spend there. While I am there though, I would like to teach either English, or more specifically GMAT if possible (I have a very high score, and will be attending a top school in 2010). Would it be possible for me to find that sort of work either through an academy or privately?

If I want to try to secure students before I arrive, what online resource would one recommend I use?
Also, while I am an American citizen, I am also of Indian decent ... would that have any bearing on people being less willing to hire me? I don't know whether there are any preconceptions folks would have about my English teaching capabilities?

Any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks everyone!

Welcome to the forum. :)

I'll get right to the point. Your ethnicity is the least of your concerns. As long as you are a native English speaker who sounds like a native speaker, you'll be fine, if you wish to teach English. No problem.

The real problem you've got is your U.S. nationality without a work permit status. Language academies are reluctant to take on U.S. citizens without work permits or student visas. Sure, you can find some but the pay is lousy and the exploitation is high. Also, there are plenty of European Union citizens who speak English fluently who are vying for the same jobs and they don't have the extra baggage of the immigration paperwork.

The current unemployment rate in Spain is almost 16% and rising. The recession means companies are cutting back on English classes and students who are willing to pay for private lessons out of their own pocket are looking to pay less. Keep in mind that people who sign up for private English classes are notoriously fickle, unreliable and prone to canceling classes at the last minute, so you can't count on getting paid for those hours. Also, you'll be competing against more established English teachers already living in Barcelona.

Offering yourself up as a GMAT instructor might be a viable alternative but you're going to have to market yourself like crazy to get some traction and you will have to offer your prospective clients something structured and worthwhile. Having a high GMAT score is great. It shows you know how to take the test. But does that mean you can adequately coach people on how to take it, particularly people whose first language is not English? A student may meet with you once or twice but then bail if what you're offering is light on actual test-taking content and heavy on "Well, when I took the test..." chit chat. Sorry if this sounds harsh but let's be honest... how much real value can you offer prospective students studying for the GMAT if you only plan to be around for 90 days? More important, exactly how hard are you willing to work during those 90 days in order to offer your students real value?

If you need to work in order to cover your travel expenses while in Spain, my advice would be to stay home and increase your savings until you have enough money so that you can comfortably cover your expenses and be able to fully enjoy your three months in Spain. Why give yourself a headache running from place to place, trying to round up clients, coordinating schedules, spending your time developing lesson plans and then hounding those clients or academies to pay you? It will really be more trouble than it's worth.

If you want to work in order to have contact with Spaniards, you're better off doing an intercambio (conversation exchange) or doing volunteer work with a non-profit or charity in Barcelona.

If, after all this, you still want to try your luck at teaching English for 90 days in Spain, you can post an ad at Loquo.com, which is the Craigslist of Spain. You'll probably need to post your ad daily or every two days in order to keep it visible on the first page of listings.

Suerte y ¡que te vaya bien! :)

[richardksa]

Just introducing a little debate into this question of classroom assistants: A friend of mine, a Spanish schoolteacher who teaches in English has an American classroom assistant. The problem is she cannot understand his very strong regional accent. When she speaks English it is very "British" English, (which probably stems from (far) too long association with me!), and so the children are, she says, a little confused over the "correct" pronunciation.
Instances she give are his pronunciation of "Hat" as "Het", "Stand" as "Sternd" and "Madrid" as "MERdrid".
Now I know that English is pronounced many ways and that to be competant ALL accents should be understood. (Although even I, as a native Brit, have problems with southern US and New Zealand vowel sounds.) But when there is such a marked difference as seems to be between my friend and her assistant, is it in the best interests of the children?
I haven't made up my mind on this yet and would be interested in the views of others.

[ValenciaSon]

If the assistant is clearly not making the effort to enunciate clearly, he should be told. We aren't talking about being nit-picky here, after all he's supposed to account for the barriers of communication in the course of his work.

Sidebar: Richard, was I difficult to understand to your ear?

[richardksa]

Sidebar: Richard, was I difficult to understand to your ear?
José, not at all.
Your points about making the effort are good ones. I have had a couple of US volunteers with the English Speaking Group and I have been forced to take them aside to tell them they need to enunciate more clearly and slow down the pace at which they talk. There is also a tendancy for some Americans to think that all the world understands your culture. i.e. Your school system, (I didn't know what a grade point average or a "major" was until someone explained,) your sports, (Hockey is played on GRASS and baseball is a girl's game in the UK called "Rounders" where I come from!) your food (what the heck is "Crackerjack"??). This is NOT a criticism of the US, but that some of your citizens need to be more aware of cultural differences when they come to Europe. I might also add, so do some British when they come to Spain!
That said, I do think that exposure to all the accents in which English is spoken is good for any learner. I would be useless here if I only understood Madrid Spanish.

[Acosta]

José, not at all.
(what the heck is "Crackerjack"??).

Crackerjack is a popcorn kids treat, made out of popcorn, nuts and sugar caramel covering.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Crackerjack2.jpg

Course the brit "Horlicks" well is a bit of an unusual name for a yank like me

http://www.andhranews.net/India/2008/February/4-Horlicks.jpg
(http://www.andhranews.net/India/2008/February/4-Horlicks.jpg)

[Don Nadie]

Acosta; you forgot to mention the most important thing about CrackerJack...the toy surprise in every box!

[Acosta]

Acosta; you forgot to mention the most important thing about CrackerJack...the toy surprise in every box!

quite true

[ValenciaSon]

Yankee Intervention: We gotta get Richard to the US, to a baseball game and to a box of CrackerJacks!

[Acosta]

Yankee Intervention: We gotta get Richard to the US, to a baseball game and to a box of CrackerJacks!


Dodger-dogs :)

[richardksa]

Yankee Intervention: We gotta get Richard to the US, to a baseball game and to a box of CrackerJacks!
Just send the tickets! ;D

[tigerlily]

Teaching English in Spain is my DREAM! However, I have been very discouraged by the research I've done so far on the internet, especially regarding Americans. I read that a minimum of $5,000 is needed to start up, which is a lot of money no matter what, but a hell of a lot if I end up never finding a job! I also read that jobs can be extremely tough to find and that EU passport holders (i.e., the Brits) are preferred over Americans. From what I've read on the forum it sounds like work visas aren't a big issue since working illegally is apparently very common, so I guess that worry will move to the bottom of my list. Mostly I'm concerned about the money I have to put out up front and the possibility of a long and fruitless job hunt, especially with the way the economy is these days and the value of the dollar compared to the euro.

Does anyone have any advice, or know what the odds are of finding a job that will earn me enough money to survive in Spain? I am a recent college grad and would plan on taking a TEFL/TESOL course, but I have no teaching experience thus far, and am not fluent in Spanish (but I know enough to get by). I would be incredibly appreciative of any info anyone could give me!

I really want to do this but I'm afraid of making a huge mistake! I don't want to give up what I have in the States (apartment, job) just to end up crawling back broke and defeated! :( Thank you so much if you can help!

[Evamar]

I have no teaching experience thus far, and am not fluent in Spanish (but I know enough to get by).

I really want to do this but I'm afraid of making a huge mistake! I don't want to give up what I have in the States (apartment, job) just to end up crawling back broke and defeated! :( Thank you so much if you can help!

Hi there tigerlily,

I can only speak as somebody that used to attend English lessons with teachers from several parts of the world, all native English speakers. For what my Spanish friends with kids say, it´s quite the same now, as they do end up deciding on the teachers for their kids.

You should be able to at least communicate in Spanish, but depending on the type of teaching, not being bilingual might even work in your favour. I remember that getting to a class with a teacher with very poor Spanish actually was more expensive than to the class of another teacher with good Spanish. Reason behind it, true or false, was that if they could not speak Spanish the students would be forced to find they own ways in order to communicate in English. Well, it worked out for me, I had to go through quite a lot of pain to get that guy to understand what I was saying! It really helped me and now I recommend this approach.

Accent is VERY important, I am sorry to say this, but it is true. Many people do not like American accent, and would not be happy to pay if they don´t like the teacher´s accent. If you accent is very thick you will definitely have to work on it before you go to Spain. In 2 occasions I changed classes because of this. Sure, the guys were very nice, but I felt I was wasting my money, and I decided to go for British teachers. But that is me, not every student is that picky; even with British accents, I wouldn´t go for people from some regions!

On the other hand, business guys dealing with the USA would surely prefer this accent, so you only need to make sure that you know your strenghts.

At the end of the day, you have to study the market you are selling yourself to, and the agency is not the only one to decide as they know that the students have the last word. Some will prefer British accent, some will want American.

But always remember that even if it doesn´t work out, at least you will have tried. :)

[Beckett]

Many people do not like (an) American accent...

I've found this to be generational. Younger Spaniards tend to gravitate toward a North American accent over a British accent because they find it easier to understand since they've been exposed to it from TV shows, movies, if they are into watching it in versión original. Middle-aged and older Spaniards might prefer a British accent because of the posh factor and a (misguided) belief that British English is "better" than American English, as though they were totally different languages.

[switch007]

I've found this to be generational. Younger Spaniards tend to gravitate toward a North American accent over a British accent because they find it easier to understand since they've been exposed to it from TV shows, movies, if they are into watching it in versión original. Middle-aged and older Spaniards might prefer a British accent because of the posh factor and a (misguided) belief that British English is "better" than American English, as though they were totally different languages.
I've met a lot of young (18-25) students from all over Europe and they prefer American English. The older Spaniards I know prefer Northern English or Scottish accents! I couldn't believe it - being a born-and-bread southerner (thus have an aversion to all northern accents.;D) Their reasoning was that they were easier to understand :confused: Even I have trouble with a mancurian/liverpuddlian/scottish accent sometimes. Each to their own I guess!

[Apostile]

Hi,
i think there is no any reason but if they didn,t mentioned,, maybe they don,t want to do that kind of jobs are they have missed to mentioned it bye chance...etc...
:'(

[gary]

Don’t turn up with travelers cheques, they are a pain to convert into cash. Just your regular cashpoint card is fine.


This is what we do - look for the "Telebanco" signs - beware the banks will offer to charge you in your own currency at their "discount' rate with 'no commission', my advice would be to take the money in Euros and let your own bank give you the rate - you will pay an overseas useage charge for both types of transaction - about a couple of £ if youre from the UK. You pay about £4 less for €200 at current rate if you take the money in Euros - usually the "NO" option on screen. Below are the actual numbers, same machine same bank same amount as the transactions appeared on my statement - the only way to find out was to do it.....

Their rate charged in £ to my account
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MADRID, URB. 12
CD 1855 26MAY09 183.92
CASH CHARGE
CD 1855 26MAY09 2.75

Taken as Euros and my bank did the conversion
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MADRID, URB. 12
EUROS 200.00
XR 1.11377
CD 1855 27MAY09 179.57
CASH CHARGE
CD 1855 27MAY09 2.69

[tigerlily]

Thanks, Evamar! I am able to communicate in Spanish, more or less, and I'm sure I would pick it up very quickly once in Spain. Your comments about the British vs. American accent are very interesting. I think Beckett and switch007 may be correct about the generational differences...I remember when I visited Spain, the young people I met also preferred the American accent, but I don't know how widespread that is. Fortunately I don't have a regional accent, so one less thing to worry about. :) Thanks for your response!

I am still wondering though what the general job market is like. Are jobs very sparse right now? Competitive? How long of a job search should one plan on - weeks, months? Is there anyone in Spain now (or was recently) who might know??

[bcnWiso]

Hello Everyone,

I have been in Spain for about 2.5 years on a student visa. At the same I am working. I teach for a company here, but they pay the company I work for in the states. Still, the money comes to a bank account in Spain. Is this a problem? I work 24 hours every month more or less, and it does not interfere with my studies whatsoever.

Thanks

p.s. it has been great reading through this thread...very sound statements!

[ArielleRDJ1]

I basically just read through this entire thread and I have to say how impressed I am with the wealth of knowledge you guys have all been sharing. Thanks for all the helpful information!

[SharonGist]

Hi--

I saw a link in here the other day that I'm no longer finding that is like the U.S. Craig'sList in Spain. Could you tell me what that site is? Thanks, Sharon

[steph]

Hi Sharon,

I believe the link you were referring to is Loquo.com : )

[SharonGist]

Thanks, Steph. I'll be in BCN 9/5/09, which is right around the corner. Sharon:o

[DianaG]

I am toying with the idea of moving to Spain for a year. I'm in my 30's though and not exactly someone that could do so without some security. I have a master's degree in counseling and speak Spanish. My spanish is not college level, so I don't know if it would be possible to get a job in my profession in Spain. My husband has a masters too in the same field, but doesn't speak any Spanish, in fact one of the main reason's I'm thinking about this is for him to learn Spanish. I am curious if it would be possible for us to get a jobs as social workers, which requires less spanish that therapy.

I found out recently that I can apply for dual citizenship USA/ Spain, but my husband is American. Would that make getting a job easier dispite the minor language barrier?

Anyone know about the social work/ psych field in Spain?

Thanks,
Diana

[LauraMN]

Wow, I guess since I'm pretty young in comparison, I haven't had to chance to see how many people were interested in the same exact thing as me. :) I was doing all the research on the internet and was becoming rather discouraged by the results. I wasn't sure how I wanted to end up working in Spain, but by this forum, it looks like it would be easier to take a vacation there and "accidently" end up staying illegally? Not what I expected, but if that's the way to do it. :confused:

[Elcocinero222]

I am a chef in California i am looking for jobs in some of the best restaurants that spain has to offer. I would like to stay and study for 2-3yrs should i go and try and get a work visa from the consulate or work under the radar? all suggestions please

[bre91]

I want to move to Spain, however living in a big city like Madrid or Barcelona seems too expensive for me. Would I be able to find jobs teaching English in smaller cities? Also if I'm going to we working illegally, do I need any teaching certification? I am a native English speaker and speak Spanish at a college level.

Thanks 4 the help!

[holller.]

So I just moved to Madrid after traveling around Europe for a month to au pair. I have been here for 3 weeks and love the family and the kids, but now the question of visas and long term stay is coming up. I am curious about visas and what not.....I know I can apply for a student visa, but in all honesty I would rather not. I would like to come back and stay from mid Jan. to mid June and thought I would be ok without papers but recently read some scary stories about people getting deported and would love some advice!

Thanks!

[keelayconcarene]

for obvious reasons, don't want to purchase one, but don't want to run into the issues Ben mentioned. Gracias

[picazoa]

I am married to a Spanish citizen and we are considering living in Spain. I am an elementary school teacher in California and would like to teach at an elementary school in Madrid. What are my possibilities. I will have a work visa.

[sweisbrot]

Hey guys, here's my situation:

I graduated with a BS in Psychology almost 2 years ago and moved to China immediately after to teach English. I also have a TESOL certificate. I'm still in China now with a contract that ends on June 30th. I'm flying back to the states to see my family on July 1st, and figured then would be the best time to move somewhere new. As a result, I'm considering Spain and had some questions.

You mentioned applying for a visa from your local Spanish consulate, however if I applied once I got back to the states, it'd be hard for me to get a job there before September because of the time you all said it takes. Could I apply from a Spanish consulate in China?

By the time I make the move from China to the US and then a few months later to Spain, I'll have about $5000 USD saved (hopefully). Is this enough to cover my initial expenses and be safe for some time?

Should I move into a hostel to save money, or find an apartment immediately? Is internet expensive (When I did a home stay in Austria, the family was paying like 20 euros a month for 400mb of upload and download streaming)?

I've read all 5 pages of the thread and realized that I should move to a smaller city like Sevilla or Costa Blanca to escape the problems of the larger cities. Opinions?

I'm used to having a contract with the school I work full-time for. It seems like Spain is a pretty shady place (which surprises me because I thought China was the worst country in that sense), so is there a way to get a job at a publicly owned government school (like a public primary school)?

Thank you for your time!!!

[aanunkor]

A: The happy-go-lucky no-work-Visa way:



[B]Three: The 90 day rule.
In theory your entry visa is good for 90 days, but don’t worry, if you spend longer in Spain you will not be thrown into jail or banned from coming back when you try to leave. Just have an excuse handy (”My Spanish studies lasted longer than I had anticipated…”, for example…)


---------

Any further info on American citizens working in Spain with or without a visa, comments, suggestions, criticisms or refutations, are welcome below:

Hello,

I am an American planning to move to Spain this September. I'll be teaching English in Madrid and already have a position lined up with an academy. Now, from this post, I see that people just up and go to Spain w/o proper working papers or Visas, but I am not comfortable with this. I know that it's immensely difficult to get a Working permit, so I'm trying to go the Student Visa route.

Does anyone know any universities, schools, or institutes in which I could enroll in through which I could get a Visa???

I would prefer that they be as cheap as possible (I just graduated from college this past June and can't afford to spend my meager savings on school--again). Also, I majored in Spanish at college, so the quality of the university/school can be awful (I don't need to learn Spanish).

Please, any information you have is greatly appreciated. Thank you soooo very much!!!

-Azuka

[Lupine Chemist]

So I've managed to score a legitimate paid internship in madrid that's supposed to transition into full time work. (After all, I become uniquely qualified over a European for a work permit if it's the job I've been doing ;D) Since I'll start over there on a student visa, are taxes any different? For that matter, are taxes automatically withheld and what are the rates?

In the chance that someone else has gone to be an engineer, what is required for the Spanish engineering license and do you need one on a prácticas contract?

[Legazpi]

So I've managed to score a legitimate paid internship in madrid that's supposed to transition into full time work. (After all, I become uniquely qualified over a European for a work permit if it's the job I've been doing ;D) Since I'll start over there on a student visa, are taxes any different? For that matter, are taxes automatically withheld and what are the rates?

In the chance that someone else has gone to be an engineer, what is required for the Spanish engineering license and do you need one on a prácticas contract?

I don't know what the income tax rates are right now, but they do get taken off my payslip automatically. There is a tax return (declaración de la renta) but I think people only fill it out when they want to claim any tax rebates. I don't think it is obligatory.

I'm not aware of such a thing as a Spanish engineering license. I worked as an engineer in the UK and certainly never needed anything like that, and I haven't heard of it in Spain (although I now work in IT). Maybe you have heard the word "licenciatura" (which just means "degree") and mistakenly thought it meant "license"?

[PobrecitoHablador]

For "Spanish engineering license" you probably mean "colegios de ingenieros", there are different "colegios" for each engineer specialization. I lack knowlege and I have too many prejuices about them to give a good insight.:rolleyes:
Or perhaps you mean "homologación del título", which is, more or less a paper by the Spanish govt. stating that your foreign studies are the same as the spanish stuies of "Ingeniería de.... <something>", I've heard that this may be quite difficult, but probably depends a lot in where do you studied and what exactly you studied.
If you have been already hired I suppose you need neither of them.

For the taxes, let me explain a little our system, at least the most common system for employees, if you are a self-employer thigns are different.
I don't know the American IRS, so can't just point the differences.
First of all, the Spanish income tax (IRPF) is progressive, so you pay a bigger percentage the bigger your income. The actual percentage to pay varies depending on many things, so giving a % based only on your income may be quite misleading.
1. When you start your job, your employer should give you a form (145, if my memory is OK), you may or may not return it filled in to your employer (you give out quite personal info if you do). Based on the info (or the lack of it) you give them and your salary your "retención" is calculated.
2. The "Retención" is the amount of money that your emplyer gives to the govt. for you (usually monthly, as most people here are paid monthly), as your tax paying. It is not exactly paying your taxes, it's more like guessing how much will you pay and getting it to be sure you "will" pay it.
3. Then, when the year is over, you do your "declaración de la renta", which is the "real" taxpaing. "Hacienda" (or "Agencia Tributaria") (the Spanish IRS) likes to over-estimate the "retenciones", so many people get a tax return, but not everybody, and if you get to pay its pretty obligatory.
Most people get a tax return and the govt. gets an "interest-free loan" so everyone is happy.
Doing the "declaración" has become quite easier if you work for a single employer, you ask "Hacienda" for a draft and if you agree with it you simply confirm it (you can do this over the internet).
4. You get your money back, or you pay dependig on your "declaración". Getting your money back has also become quite faster.

If you need to know how much you will pay, you may have a look at this progam provided by "Hacienda":
"Retenciones" calculation AEAT (http://www.aeat.es/wps/portal/ListadoContenidos?channel=c246ec1b090b5210VgnVCM10 00004ef01e0a____&ver=L&site=56d8237c0bc1ff00VgnVCM100000d7005a80____&idioma=es_ES&menu=0&img=0)
but it requieres a NIF number, which you probably wont have.

You also pay more taxes mainly the "Seguridad Social", wich is also substracted from the salary.
here (http://www.irpf.eu/) you may download a excel sheet to calculate both, SS payment and IRP "retención",

Also the IVA (Spanish for VAT) 18% for most goods, 7% form some others, 4% for "Fist Need" (mainly some food). IVA is added to the price of goods most stores display the price with it added, if not they should advertise it.
Some self-emplyers and small stores may ask you "¿Con factura o sin factura?", a polite and euphemistic way to say: "Should I charge you the VAT?" ("factura" is somewhat like an invoice but legally binding).

Hope my limited English was enough for such a complex subject. And hope it helps.

[Legazpi]

....

Your English is perfect. Please could you clarify if filling out the "declaración de la renta" is obligatory. I do it anyway since I claim back tax on my mortgage repayments but, given that it nearly always results in the government giving people some of their money back, I thought the government didn't encourage most people to fill it out.

[PobrecitoHablador]

Fist of all, please understand that I'm not an expert in taxes just talking out of my experiences.
Doing the "Declaración" is obligatory for any "persona física" (You say physical person in English?), that is: any human being for us non-lawyers, that had their "residencia habitual" (usual residency?) in Spain during the last year.
There are excemptions, for example: you don't have to "declarar" if you get your income from the same payer (employer) and its less than 22.000€/year, but you don't get your tax refunds if you don't do it, so....
If you are obligated to "declarar" and you don't do it, I'm not sure what are the consecuences, but they vary dependeing on how much you should have declared, ranging from a fine (or perhaps just a warning "doit or be fined") to criminal ofenses.
But these later ones are quite rare, rich people knows how to pay few taxes legally.

Your English is perfect Thanks, :blush: but speaking it is way harder for me. Since I read tons of English, writing it is just a matter of a bit of practice.