Why SHOULDN'T I live in Spain??

[Cynthia]

So, I have a long, well-developed list of reasons why I want to move to Spain, but there must be some downside. I'm not really looking for someone to talk me out of it, but I'd like to hear some of the less-than-wonderful things about living in Spain (if you can come up with any! ;))

I've tried to make this list on my own, but I can really only come up with the housing prices as a downside. What are some others?

PS--Sorry for starting a depressing thread about things you don't like about Spain, but I've got to know! :)

[jt_skip]

Good prudent question Cynthia, It is easy to get "caught up" in an idea like starting a new life in an exotic place... I think about it everyday. I think the important thing to take with you on this adventure is absorb your new place, in otherwords, really go into it with open arms and embrace the culture, enjoy the attitudes, and live the dream. having said that, I cannot share any personal stories, but my good friend has just moved back to his home country from 2 years in Barcelona, and His experience was less then he had hoped. These are his opinions, not mine, so take them with a grain of salt. 1. Things tend to take longer in Spain, perhaps because of the laid back attitudes (some people think lazyness)? or maybe they just aren't demanding everything now... like us americans. Some examples: licenses, banking, any official business. 2.Spanish people can be exclusive, and not so warm & welcoming. I think this is true of anyplace really, it all boils down to the person. if you go into it with an open mind, and don't wear your own culture on your sleave? so to speak, then you can expect a better interaction from new found friends. 3.A certain male "macho" attitude, it was hard for my friend to explain this, but according to him there was a prevelant macho-ism that presist in the Spanish Culture... best of luck....

[greytop]

....1. Things tend to take longer in Spain,....
2.Spanish people can be exclusive, and not so warm & welcoming. .....
3.A certain male "macho" attitude, it was hard for my friend to explain this, but according to him there was a prevelant macho-ism that presist in the Spanish Culture... best of luck....
1. Agreed, although if you get the paperwork right first time or use a gestor this can be overcome. I've found the bank every bit as efficient as in the UK but maybe I've been lucky.
2. True until you make contact and then they are very welcoming and friendly. See Alan's posts in other part of forum! It would certainly help to have a Spanish partner, like Ben, but keep trying, in Spanish, and it gets better.
3. I think this may be down to a certain amount of selfishness rather than machoism. Although sometimes very formal in social situations, in everyday life people get a bit edgy and pushy. Part of this can be seen in the driving, parking, blocking of pavements, dumping rubbish etc. Not sure if I've put that any better than your friend! My Spanish paper runs a series of daily reader's photos with examples in the urban environment.
4. It's a noisy place. Nothing unusual to have loud fireworks way past midnight. Also an endless succession of fiestas with bands, discos etc attached. This could also be a reason to come of course. Plus the dreaded motos screaming around the streets. :)
5. It is not like home. Obvious but this sometimes seems to take people by suprise, especially if they have spent little time here other than the odd holiday week. Trying to do anything requires much more effort and a steep learning curve. If things do go wrong (medical or personal crises and the like) it can seem overwhelming. You need a support network which is probably why guiris tend to mix with each other.

Whatever you end up doing you'll never know how you will react to the experience, even if 100 of us enjoy it you may hate it!
Buena suerte
Brian (4.5 years here without a trip home and loving it)

[Alan]

I just want to second all of the above. Certainly in Valencia, I find it very noisy. Fireworks are normal after football, during weddings, or at any celebration. They´ll even throw them on the roads. You see who is used to it by watching people´s reactions.

The comment that Spanish people can be closed is true, but it changes depending on where you are in the country. Here, they are supposed to be closed, but I have to say that I haven´t had any problems making friends. I have a full weekend and I´m not meeting with a single non-Spaniard. I have also been offered a room to stay in should I ever come back to the region and that´s after meeting someone three times. That´s not closed :)

I think a lot of the exclusive attitude comes down to the number of foreigners who are in the country. I´ve noticed a certain disdain for the vast influx of sun-seekers. Imagine your coastline being taken over by people who have no interest in learning about your culture and who are only really there for the sun. Of course, they bring a lot of money and that is the upside, but they take a lot away from the cultural value of a trip to Spain. I can see why Spaniards WOULD have an exclusive attitude towards these types of people.

I, on the otherhand am learning Spanish, interested in the culture, and although I am Scottish, I am as welcome as a Spaniard because I do not fall into the category above.

Personally, I could easily live here. Perhaps not in Valencia, because I think city life is just a bit too busy for me, but in one of the pueblos close to a city.

Here´s a reason not to move here: the roads are feicin dangerous!

[Chris M]

"Water is going to be a problem in Spain due to global warming...in around 10 - 20 years time"

I heard this from somewhere..

I don't know much about this issue, but is it true?

[Alan]

It´s a problem now :) I´m sure it will get worse in the future.

[greytop]

It´s a problem now :) I´m sure it will get worse in the future.
Especially as it is regionally controlled!

[Edith]

So, I have a long, well-developed list of reasons why I want to move to Spain, but there must be some downside.

Every country has got its pros and its cons, including our countries of origin, so wherever we live there will always be some aspects of local culture we do not like. In Holland, where I'm from, I'm often appalled by the total lack of simple manners - people will just bump into you without saying sorry, and they will jump the queue/line very frequently because they can't wait their turn. I also feel we are dumbing down as a nation, and crime is on the rise as well. People can be so incredibly grumpy here - e.g. on the bus or in the streets - and all they think about is work work work, hurry hurry hurry! I do not like the Calvinist aspects of our culture which de-emphasize the importance of pleasure, the arts, good food, etc. - things the Mediterranean countries are known for. And Holland is no longer the clean, well-organized country it used to be twenty years ago. And the winters are too long, gloomy and wet. And and and... of course I'm exaggerating a little, because there are many things I DO like about my own country. But the 'pull' factor is definitely there.

So, I've been thinking about moving to Spain too. The climate is an important factor but I also like the language and the relaxed way of life there. What I do not like are bullfights but you will just have to live with that if you move to Spain. I don't always agree with the way animals are treated in Spain. And I would certainly miss the BBC and the English-language bookshops of Amsterdam... ;)

Some people tend to idealize their new country and IMO this always leads to disappointments. Just do not expect people to be perfect I guess, and be prepared for some cultural differences, however small. don't think machismo is much of a problem in Spain any more (someone has already compared Spain to Italy).

[Chiny]

I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

--
Chiny

[omeyas]

I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

--
Chiny

We avoid July/Aug time, 40 degrees plus can be a bit uncomfortable! :blush:
We have also spent some time on Costa de la Luz, and some days it´s lovely on the beach, other days, same beach, and you can hardly stand, you literally get sand blasted. Great for the surfers etc that flock there, but impossible to sit on the beach. But we have just got back from 8 days in Andalucia, and had perfect weather! It could not have been better!

[Edith]

I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

--
Chiny

You could spend your summer vacations in Galicia! :)

[Marina]

I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

--
Chiny

The coast line near "El Estrecho" can be terribly windy.
I guess that is why is good for surfers;)

[Cynthia]

So, I've been thinking about moving to Spain too. The climate is an important factor but I also like the language and the relaxed way of life there. What I do not like are bullfights but you will just have to live with that if you move to Spain. I don't always agree with the way animals are treated in Spain. And I would certainly miss the BBC and the English-language bookshops of Amsterdam... ;)

Some people tend to idealize their new country and IMO this always leads to disappointments. Just do not expect people to be perfect I guess, and be prepared for some cultural differences, however small. don't think machismo is much of a problem in Spain any more (someone has already compared Spain to Italy).

The bullfights are a bit problematic for me as well. From what I understand, they are already outlawed in Catalonia (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's hard (and not very friendly as an outsider of their culture) to argue with people who see it still as the national sport, so I generally don't try to argue with the Spaniards I know about it. Although, I also think that fox hunting has been outlawed in the UK (correct me on that, too, if I'm wrong), so it seems that there is hope in that aspect.

And I agree, every country/culture has its downsides. I've lived in the US all my life, and I have found that there are definitely some things about our culture that I do not like at all. So, hopefully I'll be able to view Spain with open eyes and decide how I feel with everything in perspective.

[parubin]

From what I understand, they are already outlawed in Catalonia (correct me if I'm wrong).

Bullfighting is not prohibited at all in Catalonia. The regular bullfighting festivales are held every year in Barcelona as well as in many other towns and cities across Catalonia. Here's the link to the 2006 season which took place recently in Barcelona's "Plaza Monumental". [http://www.portaltaurino.com/barcelona/barcelona_2006.htm]

This issue has sometimes been put to question, but with no real consequences.

The only place in Spain where there is a special legal estatus that bans fullfighting is in the Canary Islands, which has also been the only region in Spain with no bullfighting tradition.

I'm not about to defend or critizise bullfighting, I personally like it somewhat (without being a big fan), but I also see the obvious downsides of the show, and I believe some changes will have to happen in the future about this issue.

Bullfighting enthusiasts are wrong to elude the debate about the suffering and pain of the noble animal, and bullfighting opponents are equally wrong when they only focus on the 'torture' of the bull without taking into consideration the cultural meaning and the artistic side of the fight.

Needless to say that both views are very unlikely to ever converge.

I don´t want to digress a lot about this interesting topic, but I will try to sum up what's been said so far.

I agree that Spain is a noisy country.

I disagree on the stereotype of the Spanish macho culture. At least on the majority of the middle age and younger generation (Spaniards wich are in their 40's and younger are not more macho than the average briton, american or irish -to name the nationals which I think I kind of know-).

Over whether Spain is more of a laid back country than the rest of Europe, I can´t come to a definite conclusion.

Obviously because of the weather, we like to spend more time out of doors, and even live more by night, but on the other side some recent polls have shown that the Spaniards have about the longest working hours of all of Europe (no more siesta time anymore). Working culture can be as frantic and stressing as in the US or any other EU country. All major multinationals are well stablished in Spain, as well as the new (and not so new) Spanish multinationals which are doing quite well lately in competing with their european counterparts, and they have succeded in completing bigtransnational buyouts.

I will finish this post with pointing out another great downside of Spanish culture, that I particullary find annoying if comparing with the British Isles or the US :

Being well-connected is Spain is quite often more important than having talent or being the most suitable person for a particular job. Having contacts is sometimes neccesary in order, for instance, to get a job.

Nepotism is a clear disadvantage of Spanish society, when comparing to the US or England, as far as I've been able to notice.

[Cynthia]

Bullfighting is not prohibited at all in Catalonia. The regular bullfighting festivales are held every year in Barcelona as well as in many other towns and cities across Catalonia. Here's the link to the 2006 season which took place recently in Barcelona's "Plaza Monumental". [http://www.portaltaurino.com/barcelona/barcelona_2006.htm] (http://www.portaltaurino.com/barcelona/barcelona_2006.htm%5D)


Ah. Thanks for the correction. I had been told that by...someone...though I can't remember by whom at the moment. I probably should have done a little research before I posted it. :blush:

[PeterC]

[quote=Chiny;9433]I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

Peter adds:
The weather yep!
Were I live it ranges from -15C to 45C.
45C is normal, the -15C was rare, it happened two winters ago, or was it three. If we have clear skies during the day, it drops to freezing or below at night. Today I drove from home to Cartagena, the temp was of the way was 4C. Loads of snow around on the hills and mountains.
The 45C we get in summer is a very dry heat, 90 mins away on the coast it will be 35C, but very humid. Our 45C is bearable, the clammy 35C isn't.

I have solved the cold problem, by installing central heating. I have range where one fire (wood), provides cooking, hot water and CH. I use one gas cylinder a year on my outside grill. Solar panels are incorporated to provide hot water when the range is unlit.

[deecree]

I think the weather (overhot summers) and the lack of greenery would get to me. Just back from Cadiz/Jerez where the wind was impressive; a new (to me) Spanish weather feature.

--
Chiny

I have to agree with the lack of greenery thing. In my part of the world anything green is "artificial".. heavily watered parks with large palm trees that really wouldn't be there without help... nice and all, but after a few months you start to notice it for what it is.
After a while I travelled to where greenery and trees are abundant (the amazon) and you realise just how arid some places are. It's the smells of trees and plants, even the smell of rain on concrete you miss.

[Chiny]

Today I drove from home to Cartagena, the temp was of the way was 4C. Loads of snow around on the hills and mountains.

A couple of days ago I was near Cartagena and the weather was perfect; blue sky and 23 degC. Unbeatable.

--
Chiny

[PeterC]

[quote=Chiny;12575]A couple of days ago I was near Cartagena and the weather was perfect; blue sky and 23 degC. Unbeatable.

The low temperature I quoted was crossing the plateau from Granada to Puerto Lumberos. The pass above Granada was 3C at 1030.

I am writing this in Cartagena, blue sky today, blowing a gale, severe wind chill occuring, Ok out of the wind though.

[PeterC]

[quote=Cynthia;9294]So, I have a long, well-developed list of reasons why I want to move to Spain, but there must be some downside.

Peter replies:
!Pillows¡
The pillows in the hotels are very hard, (except AC Hotels, who supply four large soft ones). When travelling by car, I take my own.

[omeyas]

Things wrong with Spain?
Power cuts! I've never lived there, but have holidayed there for about 20 years, and we always seem to have al least one. Living here in UK, I can never, ever remember a power cut, but they seem part of life there. And their electrical system, all too often you have to be very careful what appliances you have on at the same time, or it all trips! Reading in another forum, a chap living there was saying he lives on a hill, and the power lines come across the valley, and every time it gets a bit windy, the wires touch, and he's without power! Seems a supply of candles is essential.
Never heard anyone have a good word about the postal service there, it seems very hit and miss. Here I often upload photos to an online printer, and provided it is before 4.30 in the afternoon, I get them back the following morning, less than 24 hours. That seems highly unlikely in Spain, there are loads of horror stories concerning the mail in the forum I read.

[greytop]

Things wrong with Spain?
Power cuts! I've never lived there, but have holidayed there for about 20 years, and we always seem to have al least one. Living here in UK, I can never, ever remember a power cut, but they seem part of life there. And their electrical system, all too often you have to be very careful what appliances you have on at the same time, or it all trips!
The power supply seems more reliable now than it was 5 years ago, at least where I live. You can get a higher rated supply in your house but it costs a bit more.
Never heard anyone have a good word about the postal service there, it seems very hit and miss. ....Agreed it is less than perfect but after a while I stopped worrying as it usually gets here in the end. Round here it normally takes 3 to 5 days from UK so not much slower than parts inside UK! You do have to collect your own parcels which annoys me ever so slightly.

[Ben]

We have about 2 power cuts a year, in summer when everyone has the air-conditioning is on full power and some local transformer plant catches fire. Where my parents live in the UK, near Oxford, there are several power cuts a year still, usually whenever there is a thunderstorm.

[omeyas]

The power supply seems more reliable now than it was 5 years ago, at least where I live. You can get a higher rated supply in your house but it costs a bit more.


Yes, I realise you can uprate the system, but you should be able to, say, use the washing machine and a few other things at the same time, without having to uprate the system. We have stayed in places where there is a list of things you can have on at the same time etc. It's a bit third world! :) In another group I visit, they frequently stress the importance of a standby UPS system, to at least let you save whatever work you were doing on the computer.
Probably one of the most asked question in the forum is how to pick up Brit TV, what boxes, dish size etc is needed!! Seems that despite moving to Spain, they can't live without their beloved soaps! I'd have thought that was a good reason for moving! :)

[Marina]

Yes, I realise you can uprate the system, but you should be able to, say, use the washing machine and a few other things at the same time, without having to uprate the system.

This problem can be easily solved and the only person to blame is the owner of the house. Usually when you sing up a in a electrical company they ask you what electrical appliances you have at home (if you have air condintioning, vitro, oven etc) then according to that list you are advised to get more power or less. And this reflects in your monthly bill. I guess the owner of the places you've stayed is trying to save some pennies by avoiding you using too much energie at the same time.

I agree with you that the postal service is not as efficient as in the UK, but I would say that these days is equally trustable.

[greytop]

Yes, I realise you can uprate the system, but you should be able to, say, use the washing machine and a few other things at the same time, without having to uprate the system. ....
The minimum supply is I believe 750 Watts - admittedly designed for the very poor and very cheap (I think it said in the paper that there were <100K users on this one).
My old town house was wired with bell wire and small 2 pin sockets, any more than a few light bulbs and it would probably have burnt down!
Many rental places probably only have round about a 5 KW supply, hence the need to switch things on in sequence rather than together. When I moved to a modern flat I had the maximum size breaker they would give me and we can now run mostly everything, including the AC, at once. Most of the interruptions are now due to construction work (mad digger drivers) or electrical storms, much as anywhere else I've lived.

[omeyas]

Most of the interruptions are now due to construction work (mad digger drivers) or electrical storms, much as anywhere else I've lived.

I think there is a bit more to it than mad digger drivers! ;-)

Sudden surges of demand from Spaniards and the growing number of tourists have provoked fears of a return of the power cuts that have blighted recent summers. The tourist regions of Catalonia in the north-east, Andalucía in the south, and the Balearic islands are often the worst hit.
Minutes before much of Majorca was hit by a seven-hour power cut last July, the local electricity company had urged people to reduce consumption, much of which was blamed on air-conditioning units and fridges. Recurrent cuts in the Costa Brava resorts led hoteliers to take their electricity supplier to court last year, claiming that while energy consumption had boomed, the power distribution system had remained untouched for 20 years.
"The root of the problem is the almost complete lack of investment in production and, above all, in distribution by the electricity companies between 1997 and 2002," Professor Roberto Centeno, of the Polytechnic University in Madrid, told the newspaper El Mundo yesterday.
This, he said, had led to a drastic fall in reserve capacity to deal with peak consumption during heatwaves.
Spain broke its record for summer power consumption on Monday but, with the heatwave continuing, the record was not expected to hold.
The electricity companies deny under-investing and lay part of the blame for the cuts on environmentalists and councils which block the erection of new pylons.

[rod]

Here in Cardiff we get power cuts three or four times a year. Only last an hour or so each but just long enough to mean you have to re-set all the clocks on everything. Sets off a cacophony of house alarms too. And no good reason most of the time, no thunderstorms, no apparent cause of excessive demand. Shouldn't really happen in this day and age - I'm not convinced that the Spanish urban electricity supplies are any worse.

I agree about over efficient circuit breakers in Spanish rented property though - using a kettle could cut off the electricity for the whole building.

[PeterC]

[quote=omeyas;12613]Things wrong with Spain?
Power cuts!

Peter adds:
The electricity supply companies are fined every time they have a power cut. Last year it cost Sevillana Endensa dearly, according to my local Cordoba newspaper.

My power goes off for a split second most mornings. I now have UPS's on my computer and Skybox, which keeps them going.

[omeyas]

[quote=omeyas;12613]


My power goes off for a split second most mornings. I now have UPS's on my computer and Skybox, which keeps them going.

You're not alone!
http://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9318&highlight=power+cuts

[PeterC]

[quote=omeyas;12613]Things wrong with Spain?
Living here in UK, I can never, ever remember a power cut, but they seem part of life there.

I agree, I lived in three houses in the Devon, that never never had a power cut, but this could have been due to the fact that did not have electricity! One was a hotel, it's refrigerator was driven by parafin (kerosene). Lighting was by our own generator. The other two houses, were lit by parafin lights. I still have one which I used on my yacht, puts our 60 watts and is unpressurised, so no noise.

A lot of properties in my area rely on solar for lighting.

[Tali]

My experience has been that, generally, customer service is just not done in Spain. Most shop assistants, telephone operators, people who work for any kind of official body, etc just don't give a monkeys what kind of predicament your in. An experience that springs to mind is trying to get the papers for my car sorted. Apart from having to make 3 separate trips to Malaga city (and Brian is right, ALWAYS use a gestoría), I had to collect and fill out about 15 different forms. I was pointed to several different desks where I could find said forms (ask 3 different people, get three different answers) and when I found the right desk, the lady was talking on her mobile to her boyfriend. I waited for about 3 mins and then interrupted her. If looks could have killed, I would have shrivelled up there and then. She licked her index finger and rounded up the forms. "15 centimos" in a tone that could have frozen ice. I paid and didn't wait for change! Now, she could have been in a really bad mood, but it seems that anyone in a position to help you either doesn't want to or doesn't have a clue! Other examples include Telefonica and Corte Ingles (they move the departments round almost weekly and no one ever knows where anything is!)

But apart from that, life is positively peachy :)

[richardksa]

I decided that I needed a Spanish phone number. I have always used Vodafone and thought, why change. So off I went to Corte Inglés as everyone seems to recomend it. As soon as it was obvoius that my Spanish was not wonderful the assistant lost interest. I tried the Vodafone office in Gran Via and was told, "No aqui", which was followed by fast and furious directions as to where to go. (Take that as you may!) A few paces down Gran Via and I happened on the Moviestar shop. As soon as I asked in my halting Spanish about a "tarjeta sim" two assistants pounced and began speaking English. They were helpful, cheerful and explained everything I needed and helped me later when I screwed up the instructions and almost invalidated my new sim. This was on a busy Saturday. So I experience both good and bad, which proves that not all spanish assistants are poor at customer relations. And naturally, I now recomend Moviestar.

[timg]

Funnily enough, I've had almost the opposite experience in the Corte Inglés. I was in Valencia during las Fallas. The young helping me was struggling with my poor Spanish and her poor English, but we were getting along just fine and she was really helpful. This in spite of her obviously being half ready to go out in the processions of the afternoon (she had her hair all done up in traditional fallera style, with all the gold adornments), so would have been only too keen to get rid of me. Similarly, I ordered a DVD from the Corte Inglés over the internet. It was broken when it arrived. Again, the customer service people were great. When I couldn't quite understand what the lady at the other end was trying to say, she went off and found a colleague who spoke some English, and all was sorted. No complaints whatsoever, so far!