La Huelga 29.9.10 - How was it for you?

[dimonió]

Anybody notice the strike on Wednesday? I hardly saw any difference to everyday life. According to the local papers, more than half the flights from Palma left OK. I was at a meeting all day at a local hotel and the management said they were a few staff short in the kitchen, but other than that nothing out of the ordinary. Maybe it was different on the mainland.

[greytop]

¿Huelga? ¿Qué huelga?

[SrCandas]

Anybody notice the strike on Wednesday?

In Madrid by 13:10 a major electricity company reported a 15% drop in demand. That was not untypical for major business/industrial areas.

My BIL who works in Madrid was told that the factory would close but he would need to make up the hours - so he couldn't strike. And of course hitting the local transport stopped some people getting to work who might have wanted to.

My step daughter, airhostess, was told work or go!

And in Barcelona they broke windows, but then I've seen that before, and El corte Ingles in Madrid had a strong police presence I was told.

Spain as always divided and disorganised. Very sad; many who wanted to strike couldn't, many who wanted to work couldn't and the unemployed stayed unemployed.

At least the Asturian miners are putting up resistance (I'm sure others as well but being my area I know and support them).

[LindaM]

I live east of Malaga and I was surprised to find all the banks and most of the shops open. The out of town shopping mall also had most of its shops open. However, virtually all the cafes and most of the restaurants were closed! Didn't see any buses - not sure about the airport,

[Legazpi]

Got to work OK in Madrid - had to wait the usual two minutes for a train and could get a seat. Most shops around my office were open, although fewer people around. Seemed a bit like a typical mid-August day in Madrid with many people on holiday. Seems like the strike was a resounding failure.

[richardksa]

I visited several companies. All staff went to work. I had a bit of a wait for my one bus journey, but I noticed no difference with the Metro.
The workmen building our new supermarket all turned up for work, which was annoying as they do make a lot of noise, as did the men repairing the façade of my apartment block. Strike, what strike?

[Lupine Chemist]

I was in alcalá de henares for a few days and it was definitely quiet. But I still saw buses running and services working. It honestly seemed like a Sunday with more business open.

[Tumbit]

The teacher at my daughter's school was 5 minutes late opening up the playground ( She said it was due to a minor protest at a major junction by the Train Station in the next Town along ). Otherwise, other than listening to / watching / reading the news I personally wouldn't have known any different.

[Uriel]

So, tell me -- exactly what gets accomplished by these strikes?

[Legazpi]

So, tell me -- exactly what gets accomplished by these strikes?

In the past general strikes (or at least the threat thereof) have been successful in securing generous public sector benefits in countries such as Spain, the UK, and especially France. However now that the Spanish government really has run out of other people's money and there is no alternative to making cuts, all these strikes do is demonstrate how everything seems to run fine even when half the public sector fails to turn up to work ;).

[fawlty]

In the past general strikes (or at least the threat thereof) have been successful in securing generous public sector benefits in countries such as Spain, the UK, and especially France. ;).

The only General Strike in Britain took place in 1926 and was an abject failure. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_General_Strike#Aftermath_of_the_conflict.

To my knowledge there has not been any serious threat of another General Strike in Britain since.

[Ben]

As far as I can see, the stike was just a protest about things that had already happened, and as has been noted above, was a total failure! Oh well. All was business as usual in our area.

[Legazpi]

The only General Strike in Britain took place in 1926 and was an abject failure. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_General_Strike#Aftermath_of_the_conflict.

To my knowledge there has not been any serious threat of another General Strike in Britain since.

Yes by writing "general strikes" (without the capitals) I was really thinking of mass strikes. When I wrote that I had in the back of my mind the changes to public sector retirement benefits that Blair/Brown were going to introduce a few years ago. I can't remember the details but they backed down, although maybe due to the threat of losing core votes rather than strike action.

There were also many mass strikes in the UK in the 70s and 80s that did influence government policy to varying degrees.

[richardksa]

There were also many mass strikes in the UK in the 70s and 80s that did influence government policy to varying degrees.
Ah, yes! The miners' strike was so successful.
Spain has been quite well politically isolated and financially insulated in past economic downturns and before international investment began to arrive in the late fifties and EU money when they joined basically lived with a "What you don't have you don't miss" situation. Now the population has been used to better times which was bought with grants and loans. Now we have a time of reckoning. Personally I think it will be good for Spain. They will come out of this stronger and leaner. Just not tomorrow.

[Legazpi]

Ah, yes! The miners' strike was so successful.
Spain has been quite well politically isolated and financially insulated in past economic downturns and before international investment began to arrive in the late fifties and EU money when they joined basically lived with a "What you don't have you don't miss" situation. Now the population has been used to better times which was bought with grants and loans. Now we have a time of reckoning. Personally I think it will be good for Spain. They will come out of this stronger and leaner. Just not tomorrow.

There were several miners strikes during the 70s and 80s, and I think sometimes they got their way, but (fortunately) the big one failed.

I hope you are right about Spain - I think there are a quite a few tough years ahead yet though :(

[Acosta]

As far as I can see, the stike was just a protest about things that had already happened, and as has been noted above, was a total failure! Oh well. All was business as usual in our area.


I was really wondering about this. When I saw the strike and as well the following debates, all I could think was.. What's the point other than some show of strength.

Be interested to see how it plays out.

It is always interesting watching the news of another country as a foreigner. I do feel that my perspective is much more objective than for my own country's politics.

[Pippa]

It is always interesting watching the news of another country as a foreigner. I do feel that my perspective is much more objective than for my own country's politics.

Well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. :)

[Legazpi]

I was really wondering about this. When I saw the strike and as well the following debates, all I could think was.. What's the point other than some show of strength.

Be interested to see how it plays out.

It is always interesting watching the news of another country as a foreigner. I do feel that my perspective is much more objective than for my own country's politics.

It almost seems that the unions feel obliged to strike whenever they can in order to justify their existence/fees. Even if they know they're not going to achieve anything. Making token gestures to oppose every reform, even when most people consider them necessary just makes the unions look weak. Which is a shame because they do have an important role to play in protecting employee rights.

[SrCandas]

It almost seems that the unions feel obliged to strike .......

Legazpi I think you may be right there. The unions in Spain are not like the unions in France or the UK. They feel a need to prove they are not tools of the state and the rich. (Sadly I have little faith in them having spoken to a spanish relation who works within one. Corruption is everywhere in Spain :( ).

But one effect of the strike is that we are discussing it here. My spanish stepdaughter discusses it in Madrid. She now realises that reluctantly she will need to leave her country. And my sister-in-law knows she will have to bring up her daughter on less than 1000Es per month (her job goes this week).

Even a failed strike has an impact on peoples thinking and for those who cannot escape lets them see where they stand :)

[Acosta]

Well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. :)

I am not sure if that was what I intended to convey. Rather, inspite of what the crisis is still doing in the US, I know for a fact how much worse it is in other places and countries. So I don't see the Grass as greener, perhaps a different shade of grey.

What I did intend to convey is that watching the news in spanish (my Spanish practice) I find myself being less emotionally attached to one issue or the other issue, or one political party vs the other and see the whole situation a bit more objectively. Or perhaps not being a Spanish national, I am a touch more immune to the emotional and rhetorical traps / methods used in the political discourse (or lack there off).

Thanks

[Uriel]

Legazpi I think you may be right there. The unions in Spain are not like the unions in France or the UK. They feel a need to prove they are not tools of the state and the rich. (Sadly I have little faith in them having spoken to a spanish relation who works within one. Corruption is everywhere in Spain :( ).

But one effect of the strike is that we are discussing it here. My spanish stepdaughter discusses it in Madrid. She now realises that reluctantly she will need to leave her country. And my sister-in-law knows she will have to bring up her daughter on less than 1000Es per month (her job goes this week).

Even a failed strike has an impact on peoples thinking and for those who cannot escape lets them see where they stand :)

You are lucky that you live in a system that lets you pick and choose what country you want to live in. You don't know how lucky! (Not saying the INS is a bunch of bastards. But I'd like to see their parents' marriage certificates....)

[SrCandas]

You are lucky that you live in a system that lets you pick and choose what country you want to live in. You don't know how lucky! (Not saying the INS is a bunch of bastards. But I'd like to see their parents' marriage certificates....)

Uriel not sure I got that. I'm a Brit and yes I do know how lucky I am. I wouldn't wish to be anything but a brit - but I guess that goes for many people of the world and the country that chose them.

I can in theory live anywhere in Europe but as I'm not rich in reality I'm very limited. I certainly couldn't earn a living in Spain.

As for my step daughter (Spanish) she can't even live in her own country. As a brit my country has always been there for me.

I know Americans have to jump through hoops to get to Europe but I believe the same applies in reverse these days :)

[Uriel]

Now that I have a Mexican boyfriend, I am being exposed to the joys of the American INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services -- the word "service" is being used pretty loosely here) secondhand, and it's an education, let me tell you. And every time he comes up against a new barrier or fee or other hoop to jump through that seems outrageous or improbable or just downright capricious, I check with my friends who have Mexican relatives or spouses, and they tell me, nope, that's really how it can be sometimes.

While I have lived and travelled in Europe a bit, it's really constructed on a different mental paradigm. Not saying it's a bad one, but it would be a challenge for me to live in it without really sharing it as a core of my attitudes/belief system. (My dad's wife is European, living here, and I think she struggles mightily with that challenge herself.) That shift in perceived realities is one of the reasons why I asked about ya'll's perspective on the strike, because for my perspective it was a pointless exercise for show, but then we don't tend to have general strikes here (just industry-specific ones), so I wanted to see what it meant for you.

[SrCandas]

Now that I have a Mexican boyfriend, I am being exposed to the joys of the American INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services --

Uriel I can appreciate your frustrations. Unfortunately when dealing across borders then nothing is simple. All you can do is fight the fight and not let the b******s get you down. Yup I know easier said than done.

because for my perspective it was a pointless exercise for show, but then we don't tend to have general strikes here (just industry-specific ones), so I wanted to see what it meant for you.

In spain the options left open to the masses are very limited. A small percentage of them are members of so called unions. However these are not the same as French, British or German unions. The unions felt, and I'm not defending such corrupt state manipulated orgs., that they needed to do something to demonstrate that they are not puppets of the state, and the options open to them were minimal. In the end they found themselves between a rock and a hard place, and went with the strike.

I don't think anyone is surprised that it didn't have spectacular impact. As I said many who wanted to strike couldn't, and many who didn't want to strike were forced to not work. And in parallel the miners of Asturias were already taking action.

My concern is the view that Spain is merely suffering as part of the global crisis and all will be well in the future. That is not true. Spain has and is sliding down the league tables, no matter how you measure them, crisis or no crisis, and would under normal circumstances find its new level in the global and European economies. However it cannot do that as it is tied to a currency who's value is determined by the very successful and impressive industrial might of Germany.

Thus Spanish salaries are dropping, jobs and wealth are disappearing, and prices are rising. (Many now say the cost of living is equal to that of the UK while salaries are much less).

So while the strike might be seen as a failure it could be argued that it was less of a failure than doing nothing. As I said my stepdaughter was able to see the reaction to the strike of her employer, her family's employers, and the country as a whole. It was enough for her to make plans.

[Uriel]

I was in Europe shortly before the euro was adopted (and scarfed up all the coins I could find as souvenirs :p) and then again the year after it had been put into effect. I remember my (German) relatives-by-marriage bitching about it, and I hear more complaints than praise on the internet. Is that just the nature of the beast, that complaints are always more vehement no matter what, or is it really dragging things down? (In your humble opinion; I know it's a very complicated subject.)

My gut feeling was always that it was a terrible idea, although I claim no knowledge of economics.

[Legazpi]

I was in Europe shortly before the euro was adopted (and scarfed up all the coins I could find as souvenirs :p) and then again the year after it had been put into effect. I remember my (German) relatives-by-marriage bitching about it, and I hear more complaints than praise on the internet. Is that just the nature of the beast, that complaints are always more vehement no matter what, or is it really dragging things down? (In your humble opinion; I know it's a very complicated subject.)

My gut feeling was always that it was a terrible idea, although I claim no knowledge of economics.

I've been mentioning that the euro was a crap idea on this forum for years now. But that's just my opinion. What really annoyed me was how difficult I found it to have a discussion with people in Spain about it when it was introduced in 2002. It might have just been the people I hung out with, but all I heard was an argument along the lines of "the euro is a good thing and anyone opposed to it is nationalistic and anti-european".

[Andy.G.]

Some countries jumped onto the euro train in the hope it would help their struggling enonomies, but all it has done for some is delay the problem and now some the countries cant devalue the currency.