Apellidos

[Cervecero]

Porque Ben y Marina tienen apellidos differentes? Es normalamete el caso en españa cuando personas casan que se llevan sus apellidos originales?

Soy de EEUU. Aquí, cuando se casan, casi todas las mujers toman el apellido de sus maridos. Algunos veces los dos enlacen los apellidos como Ben y Marina Cortes-Diez. Las unicas personas que mantener sus apellidos originales son actores de Hollywood.

Cual es la costumbre de nombres cuando se casan en su pais?

[ValenciaSon]

Yo tambien soy de los EEU pero en las ciudades mas metropolitanas y en los ultimos dos generaciones, la mayoridad de las mujeres mantienen su apellido cuando se casan. Yo veo este costumbre creciendo mas y mas en los EEUU y creo que en un tiempo, alomejor a llegar el proximo generacion, las mujeres no cambiaran el apellido en cualquier parte de los EEUU.

[richardksa]

But how would you address a letter or Christmas card? In the UK it would be "Mr & Mrs XY Smith", with the husband's name used for both. In Spain do you have yo use both names separately?

[Edith]

Cual es la costumbre de nombres cuando se casan en su pais?

En Holanda, hoy día, la mayoría de las mujeres llevan sus nombres originales después de casarse. Tomar el apellido del marido me parece una costumbre muy anticuada que pertenece a aquella época victoriana cuando la mujer tuvo un estátus inferior.

[Ben]

It's very early, so forgive me replying in English, the Spanish part of my brain is still half asleep! In Spain no names change when you marry. Marina keeps her 2 surnames and I keep my one. In fact she gets quite annoyed when my English friends send us Christmas cards saying Mr and Mrs Curtis!

The change comes in for the children. Each child takes the first surname from the father, and the first from the mother. So, I am Ben Curtis, Marina is Marina Diez Jimenez. Our children will have the surname Curtis Diez.

This of course is a bit machista, as the maternal name is always lost as you move down the generations - In Marina's case Jimenez, her second surname, comes from her mother, and is discarded for our children, who will take Diez as their second surname, which comes from her father's side.

[parubin]

In Spain no names change when you marry. Marina keeps her 2 surnames and I keep my one.

The change comes in for the children. Each child takes the first surname from the father, and the first from the mother. So, I am Ben Curtis, Marina is Marina Diez Jimenez. Our children will have the surname Curtis Diez.

This of course is a bit machista, as the maternal name is always lost as you move down the generations - In Marina's case Jimenez, her second surname, comes from her mother, and is discarded for our children, who will take Diez as their second surname, which comes from her father's side.

Lo que dices es muy correcto y está muy bien explicado, con una excepción.

Desde hace algunos años, en España, la pareja puede decidir el orden de apellidos de sus hijos.

Antes era como tú lo explicas : El primer apellido de los hijos será el primer apellido del padre, y el segundo apellido de los hijos seré el primero de la madre.

Siguiendo el ejemplo que propones, vuestros futuros retoños, según la reglamentación anterior, sólo podían apellidarse Curtis Díez.

Sin embargo, con la nueva reglamentación vigente, ahora es perfectamente posible y válido alterar el orden de los apellidos, es decir, llegado el momento del aumento de vuestra familia, podéis inscribir perfectamente al niño/a en el Registro Civil, otorgándoles primero el apellido de la madre. En este caso sería Díez Curtis.

Ambas opciones son perfectamente válidas, y es una decisión que compete únicamente a la pareja.

Sin embargo, es cierto, que la costumbre (después de siglos de imposición) sigue siendo en la mayoría de los casos apellidar a los hijos primero con el apellido del padre y después con el de la madre.

En cualquier caso, esto ahora es una decisión libre y voluntaria de la pareja.

[timg]

Pero ¿qué pones en un sobre cuando escribes a la pareja? "Familia Curtis Diez"? "Señores Curtis Diez"? "Sr Curtis y Sra Diez Jimenez."?

[Ben]

Desde hace algunos años, en España, la pareja puede decidir el orden de apellidos de sus hijos.¡Muchas gracias por la aclaracion! Marina dice que van a ser Diez Curtis - que tampoco es mal idea si tienen que vivir aqui en España.

Pero ¿qué pones en un sobre cuando escribes a la pareja? "Familia Curtis Diez"? "Señores Curtis Diez"? "Sr Curtis y Sra Diez Jimenez."?
Segun Marina "Señores Curtis Diez" o simplemente ""Señores Curtis" esta bien - con lo cual no entiendo porque le molesta tanto lo de Mr and Mrs Curtis!!!

[Jimmy]

It seems the Portuguese have it the reverse:

Portuguese surnames (http://www.portcult.com/10.LANG4_names.htm)

and it also has been quite valid for the men to take on the wife's surname when marrying.

[Marina]

Lo que ha explicado parubin es totalmente cierto, tan solo quiero ampliar la información, y es que el orden de apellidos que se elija tiene que mantenerse para todos los hijos de la pareja. Es decir no podríamos llamar a nuestro primer hijo Curtis Díez y al segundo Díez Curtis. Una vez elegido el orden hay que mantenerlo para toda la descendencia.


Respecto a lo que se pone en un sobre yo pondría los dos apellidos, es decir:
Sres Curtis-Díez o Sres Díez-Curtis

Aun así mucha gente de la antigua escuela pondría solo el apellido del marido, porque aun que la mujer española oficialmente y en papel no cambia su apellido al casarse, hay algunas mujeres que por prestigio u otras razones prefieren usar el apellido de su marido.

Sinceramente, con la fama que tiene España de ser un país machista a mi todavía me sorprende que en Inglaterra haya ciertos comportamientos machistas tan arraigados y aceptados (como que la mujer tome el apellido de su marido) y que las mujeres los acepten sin más. Yo creo las nuevas generaciones de mujeres española está en píe de guerra contra el machismo!

[ValenciaSon]

No era la costumbre antes en España de la mujer añadir el apellido del marido a su nombre con de?

Por ejemplo: Marina Diez cuando se casaria con Ben Curtis se llamaria Marina Diez de Curtis?

Mi esposa se enfada cuando recibimos correo que dice Mr. and Mrs. Jose Leandro. Ella le gusto mi apellido pero lo combino con la de ella. Como se dice "hyphenate" en español?

[Edith]

Mi esposa se enfada cuando recibimos correo que dice Mr. and Mrs. Jose Leandro.

Además, ella no se llama José! ;)

[parubin]

No era la costumbre antes en España de la mujer añadir el apellido del marido a su nombre con de?

Por ejemplo: Marina Diez cuando se casaria con Ben Curtis se llamaria Marina Diez de Curtis?

Mi esposa se enfada cuando recibimos correo que dice Mr. and Mrs. Jose Leandro. Ella le gusto mi apellido pero lo combino con la de ella. Como se dice "hyphenate" en español?

Eso que dices (poner como segundo apellido de la mujer casada el primer apellido del marido) es una costumbre totalmente obsoleta y en desuso que ya apenas se ve en España. Únicamente se utilizaba en ocasiones para dar a conocer que la señora fulana de tal está casada con el señor mengano de cual. Sólo a efectos de publicidad.

Además de estar obsoleta, esta costumbre no tiene ningún estatus legal :

Es decir, y siguiendo otra vez con el mismo ejemplo que estamos usando, Marina podría decidir darse a conocer como Marina Díez de Curtis, pero legalmente (es decir, en su Documento Nacional de Identidad, Registro Civil, Pasaporte y cualquier documento oficial) su nombre seguirá siendo Marina Díez Jiménez.


Al igual que a Marina, reconozco que me llama bastante la atención y no deja de sorprenderme el sistema británico (inglés y norteamericano) de apellidos familiares.Estos son países donde se cuidan muchísimo las formas, donde se respeta hasta el paroxismo la más pequeña particularidad de cualquier segmento poblacional y donde, en ocasiones, se vive bajo una dictadura de lo políticamente correcto que roza el absurdo, y sin embargo, al mismo tiempo, ignoran algo que me parece obvio (que una mujer conserve su nombre sin importar su situación matrimonial).

[barry]

It would make more sense to conserve the female name because at least there would be a reliable way to trace biological ancestory. DNA tests have proven the male line to be completely unreliable, serving only to inform who the matrimonial partner was at the time of birth.

[ValenciaSon]

Lo que es obvio y natural para uno, es absurdo para el otro.

[Edith]

que una mujer conserve su nombre sin importar su situación matrimonial).

¡Bravo Parubin! :)

Otra cosa que me molesta es el uso de una palabra especial (señorita, miss, Fräulein, mademoiselle, etc.) para denotar la situación matrimonial de la mujer mientras no hay una palabra semejante para denotar a los hombres solteros. Parece que el estatus matrimonial de la mujer sigue siendo más importante en la sociedad. En Holanda, la palabra 'juffrouw' (señorita) fue abolida desde hace veinte años y todas las mujeres se llaman 'mevrouw' (señora). En el extranjero siempre me introduzco como mrs.

[Jimmy]

It would make more sense to conserve the female name because at least there would be a reliable way to trace biological ancestory. DNA tests have proven the male line to be completely unreliable, serving only to inform who the matrimonial partner was at the time of birth.


It Ain't Necessarily So... Bro' (Thanks Dr. Karl)

Actually, in the current Genographic (https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html) project tracing the origins of humankind. It is the Y Chromosome (https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/signposts.html) of the male line that is being used to trace genetic origin.

"The Y chromosome is the sex-determining chromosome in humans. While all other chromosomes are found in matching pairs, it is the mismatch of the Y with its partner, the X chromosome, that determins gender - men have a mismatched pair (Y and X), while women have two X chromosomes. Because the Y does not have a matching chromosome, most of it (the non-recombining region, or NRY) escapes the shuffling process known as recombination that occurs every generation in the rest of our genome. This allows the Y to be passed down through a purely male line, changed only by random mutational events." - Genetic Signposts - The Genographic Project.

[sean4]

Si quieres leer algo sobre los apellidos en inglés:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_naming_customs

El enlace tiene más explicaciones sobre los apellidos (de, y/i, -ez, el orden, etc).

[greytop]

Sean - never mind the appelido. How did you go from forero to: NOCTE>noite>noche
Is that a mega number in some strange number base?:D

[sean4]

Sean - never mind the appelido. How did you go from forero to: NOCTE>noite>noche
Is that a mega number in some strange number base?:D

jaja..
Cuando he cambiado mi perfil (para agregar mi página de web), los corchetes angulares se convirtieron! Creo que está bien ahora.

[Lisa]

No, in the genographic project and other similar projects (oxfordancestors.com) the Y-chromosome is only used for males. For females they use mitochondrial (mt)DNA, which is also more widely used and preferred over the Y-chromosome. The Y-chromosome is passed from father to son, yes, but mtDNA is passed from the mother only to both son and daughter, making it far more useful when it comes to human migratory patterns. The Y-chr. was introduced as a genetic marker only to certify the accuracy of mtDNA, kind of like quality control. No scientist in the world would trust soley on the Y-chr.
SOURCE: Seven Daughter´s of Eve by Bryan Sykes.

It is also common in Norway for women to take their husband´s surname, about 80 percent do so. I have never understood this practice. Thankfully, the words for ms. and mrs. are no longer in use. Not in everyday speech anyway. If they are used it´s in a humouristic or sarcastic manner.:)

[chicarcas]

It's very early, so forgive me replying in English, the Spanish part of my brain is still half asleep! In Spain no names change when you marry. Marina keeps her 2 surnames and I keep my one. In fact she gets quite annoyed when my English friends send us Christmas cards saying Mr and Mrs Curtis!

The change comes in for the children. Each child takes the first surname from the father, and the first from the mother. So, I am Ben Curtis, Marina is Marina Diez Jimenez. Our children will have the surname Curtis Diez.

This of course is a bit machista, as the maternal name is always lost as you move down the generations - In Marina's case Jimenez, her second surname, comes from her mother, and is discarded for our children, who will take Diez as their second surname, which comes from her father's side.

Same thing for us Mexicans, and I believe it is the same for all of Latin America: We have two last names: our father's and our mother's.

[Laguiri]

I have to say I really prefer the idea of two last names to the anglo-saxon version, and hyphen. I have my mothers last name as my middle name but I would prefer that it were my surname. I agree with those here who say that the idea of a wife taking her husband's last name is old-fashioned and down-right sexist. Hopefully my and future generations will choose to preserve their last names (maiden name is an irritating term).

[greytop]

..... I agree with those here who say that the idea of a wife taking her husband's last name is old-fashioned and down-right sexist. ....
As far as I'm aware it is optional in the UK. A Woman can continue to use her "maiden" name - or any other name - as long as it is not with intent to defraud etc.
I've been married twice and both times suggested my partner kept her name. Both wished to change it to mine. Does this still make me a sexist? (Probably an optimist getting married twice;D)
Mind you we would probably have spent our lives together explaining to officialdom why we had different names yet claimed to be married, but that's another problem!

[acmench]

It's optional here in the States, too. I think, like you say Greytop, you can actually change your name to whatever you want, within reason. When I got married a few years ago I kept my last name. I always had planned to and marrying a Spanish man made it that much easier. He didn't want me to take his name. But it does bug him when mail is sent to him but with my last name. It's mostly junk mail (since the phone's in my name), and, for the most part, my family understands that we have different last names. If anything they tend to just "give" me his last name.

People who meet me now just assume that my last name is Nacho's. Funny because my last name is Menchhofer, and that certianly doesn't sound Spanish.:)

[Paco]

I never forced my wife to take my name. She took it because she wants to make things easier, and using her words, she wants to honor me... English is for comunication, Spanish is for beutification(some people said for Complication) Is a lot easier to send a greeting Card to Mr and Ms. Carlos Marcano, When You have to do 373 Christmas Cards plus, ( this is big in my family,for us is very important to send Christmas Cards to friends and family, is a family tradition and is another way to celebrate Christ) you appreciate to keep it simpleWe always tried to add her first name to the envelope. Also legally.
Recently I sold a car. My wife did all the paperwork. Not a Problem. legally she has my last name and she owns everything I own. no explanations. If she , kept her single name she has to prove that we are legally married and so. Also with the children and school
no questions asked or problems taking children to schools or meeting or whatever. The Culture is like that. This is not a macho thing or a sexist thing is another difference between English and Spanish Culture. And I was told is based in the bible, where it says "two are going to be one" We are the Perez Family. NO EXPLANATION NEEDED.Not the Perez-Alarcon-Velazques-Goya Family.and you are going to spend your life explaining it,My kids looks american but when they say their name they also ask them, Did you borned here? I am glad they dont have to explain also their parents marrieage status.GO AHEAD AND DO THIS ONE This is not going to die with time I think this is going to stay, "simplify, simplify, simplify" (Henry David, Thoreau).
Also when I was a young lad in Spain, my mother's maids, used to call me Senorito. I dont know if this was changed, but I was el senorito also for people at School and in restaurants. So the term meant I was young and single. My Uncle he had a lot of money never married, they always called him Senorito (he spent his life in Galicia and died of an old age this also means bachelor and a respect title). Once again I dont know if this was changed in Spain. What is your opinion? Or do you know anything about this. Ciao PACO.

[Dave_K]

My wife and I have kept our own last names and haven't had any issues with it here.

What is a problem with officialdom, though, is the Spanish use of two surnames. Add to this the common Spanish practice of going by one's middle name (e.g., Ma Carmen = Carmen) and you have your average bureaucrat thoroughly confused.

For example, a colleague came from Spain to where I work for a couple of years. Let's say his name was Juan Javier Garcia Marquez. He preferred to go by Javier. His apartment lease was in the name of "Javier Marquez", his bank account was for "Juan Garcia", the electricity bill was for "Juan Garcia-Marquez", etc, etc, so that almost no two official documents had exactly the same first and last name. I tried to tell him to pick one first name and one last name, and to stick to them, for official purposes, but he didn't like that idea!

[Paco]

that's my point. Why we have to complicate the story this doesn't make any sence.
Jose Manuel Gonzalo Garcia Cabaleiro Perez Pereida. Is just a nightmare. VS.
Jose M. Garcia. Or Ms. Jose M. Garcia.
SImplify Simplify Simplify.....