Stereotypes: Are Spanish Men Too Macho?

[ValenciaSon]

Another stereotype I've heard are that Spanish men are male chauvinists. Common sense tells me that a generalization which if it was true, is less so now. What is your experience/impression of this stereotype?

[Alan]

It's fairly true of the Italians, but not of the Spanish :)

[Brian]

I've certainly met Americans who were too macho, as well as Italians, Spaniards, Germans, and any other nationality you might care to mention. Perhaps the culture that a male grows up in molds him to act in certain ways, but by no means do I feel that the stereotype fits all Spanish men.

[Marina]

Take in to account that 30 years ago only a small percentage of Spanish women worked. So the family model was often, the man works and brings the money and the woman stays at home and cooks, clean and looks after the children... And if the woman worked she still would do most of the chores at home. So you can imagine that for older male generations it's difficult to change their way of thinking and I would say that chauvinists are common.

In my generation, I'm 30, it's less common as women tend to live similar lives to men and they are more independent, as earn their own living. However everynow and again you still find a young man that says that women are bad at driving (excuse me SOME women are! but SOME men as well) and that they should stay home cocking.

[ValenciaSon]

That's good to hear because the male spaniards that I know, who are in my father's generation or thereabouts, tend to be chauvinistic, bordering on anachronistic. I suppose it is generational and the family model practiced. I really don't know any spaniards of my generation (I'm 42) so I had no current point of reference. Now I do, in NFS.


Thanks

[greytop]

... women are bad at driving (excuse me SOME women are! but SOME men as well) and that they should stay home :blush: cocking.:blush:

Careful with the English there Marina

[Marina]

That was an unlucky of spelling mistakes. Is it possible that it was the subconscious:rolleyes:

[richardksa]

This subject came up over drinks a couple of visits ago. A Spanish lady of uncertain age remarked that "Spanish men like to be macho until they get married"!! Then they do what they are told, I presume.:o

[Marbella]

I started to type this, and that awful song popped into my head: "So macho, he's gotta be, so macho...". If only I could get rid of all the junk in my head like this and replace it with something useful.

Anyway, according to this story, "47% of Spanish men told researchers they rarely, or never, used an iron or wielded a dustpan and brush", and what's the knock-on effect of this? A low birth-rate! Yes, children take up too much time so less and less Spanish women want them.

You see how smart those Spanish men are ;) !

[Edith]

That was an unlucky of spelling mistakes. Is it possible that it was the subconscious:rolleyes:

LOLOLOL, Sigmund Freud did have a point there, didn't he? :D

[Edith]

Take in to account that 30 years ago only a small percentage of Spanish women worked. So the family model was often, the man works and brings the money and the woman stays at home and cooks, clean and looks after the children... And if the woman worked she still would do most of the chores at home. So you can imagine that for older male generations it's difficult to change their way of thinking and I would say that chauvinists are common.

In my generation, I'm 30, it's less common as women tend to live similar lives to men and they are more independent, as earn their own living. However everynow and again you still find a young man that says that women are bad at driving (excuse me SOME women are! but SOME men as well) and that they should stay home cocking.

I have a lot of admiration for the Spanish people because Spain seems to have changed so much after the death of Franco. At least, this is my impression. Today, Spain is a very modern country and I feel totally at ease there when I am traveling on my own. No catcalls, no whistles, no funny stares. I have been told that Italy is still a bit different in this respect. I agree it could be generational because I remember things were a bit different when I visited Spain for the first time in 1981.

My male Spanish teachers at the Instituto Cervantes were totally opposed to machismo, they hated it and one of them was even a feminist. We discussed piropos in class and our conclusion was that piropos are basically OK because anyone can use them. I remember watching one of Oscar Ramírez' talk shows on TVE (Oscar Ramírez, the Spaniard who looks like a Dutchman) and he would tell one of his guests in the studio that she had beautiful eyebrows (curved, dark and full)... very funny and charming. I can appreciate that sort of thing, it's not machismo in my opinion since a woman can use piropos too. Sometimes it's just nice to complement someone on his (or her) clothing etc. In northern Europe, it's not very common to do so but like I said, I like this cultural custom because it can be a form of positive feedback if used with respect.

Oh, and by the way, one of my colleagues keeps pestering his female workmates with stale jokes about women not being able to drive, he goes on and on and on about it. :mad: Women can't do this, women can't do that, ha ha ha ha, ad nauseam. He totally belies the stereotype of the woman-friendly Northern European man. Which goes to show that clichés and stereotypes are often wrong. :)

[Marbella]

Will add this here rather than start a new thread. It's from expatica but I haven't managed to find this story in the Spanish press yet.

"Spain introduced a controversial new sex-equality law to reduce discrimination in the workplace on Friday."

A couple of things I noticed in this story:

"The law will ban not only direct and indirect discrimination but also sexual http://adserver.expatica.nxs.nl/adlog.php?bannerid=1082&clientid=299&zoneid=6783&source=&block=0&capping=0&cb=ad2395c4dd75e0d9d019d9e52ddb37e8harassment and denigrating sex-based comments, which, according to Caldera, will be "severely" penalized."

So, I'll be careful with the hola guapa now.

"The cabinet gave the final approval to a law which includes a workplace provision of up to two years of maternity leave..."

I'm 100% behind sex-equality but imagine running a business and one of your key female staff comes in the office and says she's pregnant, and once she's had the baby she'll be off for 2 years and wants her job back at the end. Very tricky.

"The law seeks to end the traditional discrimination against women, who in Spain earn 40 percent less than men, double the salary differential of the European Union as a whole."

40%!! Scandalous. how has that been justified???

[greytop]

Further to the "macho males" debate the paper (http://www.lasprovincias.es/valencia/prensa/20061006/valencia/valencianas-dedican-cuatro-horas_20061006.html) published the results of a Proctor & Gamble survey conducted amongst Valencian ladies.
68% men don't help with the cooking
65% of women surveyed thought it would help if men showed more enthusiasm for housework
66% men have never taken part in the ironing
40% men never help with washing the clothes
women spend 4.5 hours a day on household chores
46% get some help from the kids (easier to train than husbands!)

It would be interesting if anyone knows of similar surveys elsewhere in the world. Maybe the Valencianos will be no worse than others.;)

[Flexichick]

and that they should stay home cocking.

Best laugh I've had all day! ;D

I'm sure some men THINK that as well, but few would actually SAY it ;D

[Cynthia]

"The law seeks to end the traditional discrimination against women, who in Spain earn 40 percent less than men, double the salary differential of the European Union as a whole."

40%!! Scandalous. how has that been justified???

Yeah, wow, that's awful! As far as justification, from a political science perspective, there are a lot of ways that such inequalities in pay develop and persist (I won't bore you with them here). But even that it's around 80% of what a man earns in the rest of the EU, and 70% in the US, is far too low.

As for the machismo in general, I really think it depends a lot on who you know. I don't know a lot of Spanish people, and probably fewer than most everyone on this website, but the Spanish men I know aren't like that at all. This could be because they're in their 20's, so maybe it's a generational thing. But I can't really generalize from the 3 Spanish men I personally know, so maybe it's just them who aren't macho...:confused:

[omeyas]

However everynow and again you still find a young man that says that women are bad at driving

¡No me lo creo!
Mujer al volante, peligro constante, ¿no? :)

[Marina]

... and then why do we get cheaper insurance:D:D:D

[omeyas]

... and then why do we get cheapre insurance:D:D:D

Cheaper. Un gazapo, ¿no?
Realmente, ¡no lo sé! :)

[Laguiri]

I would say that machismo defiantely still exists in Spain, but that people from other countries exaggerate its prevalence. When i lived in spain I spent nearly all my time with twenty'somethings, and I definately did not notice a machismo that doesn't also exist in many other western societies...The older generation is obv more traditional, they were under Franco. However I did used to teach a girl from a family very traditional. Her parents were racist and sexist, very disturbing. The boy always sits in the front seat of the car because he's a boy...:eek: This is not the norm however. Also it's being taken very seriously, and people are definatley trying to change this.

[guapo]

well the fight against machismo reaches a new level it would seem as women get the green light (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1944062,00.html). The local town council in Fuenlabrada - described as "a Madrid dormitory town" is going to replace half of all road signs and traffic lights. That is, replace the little walking man symbol with a female version wearing a skirt and ponytail. Can this really be true?

[greytop]

well the fight against machismo reaches a new level it would seem as women get the green light (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1944062,00.html). The local town council in Fuenlabrada - described as "a Madrid dormitory town" is going to replace half of all road signs and traffic lights. That is, replace the little walking man symbol with a female version wearing a skirt and ponytail. Can this really be true?
The local males will probably interpret this as "moving targets" :D