something very curious

[NIeves]

I am just listening to some old Podcasts Notes from Spain dating the year 2005. It' very curious: Why do so many english speaking people love Spain and encourage other people who want to move to Spain??

It's nice to know that ;D

[ValenciaSon]

Better Bovril:rolleyes:

[richardksa]

It is the same with the English who move to France or Italy. When you compare dull, wet, cold, overcrowded, over-regulated, over-taxed England with any Mediterranean country, it doesn't stand a chance. And we are not mean and like to share this with our friends.

[omeyas]

I think a lot of it has to do with the weather, can't be the language, as in a Brit forum I read occassionally, hardly anyone speaks Spanish, or seems to have any interest in learning!

[billabongdom]

I would say it has something to do with the social life, here in Spain, if you can keep away from the costas on the med, Spain beats the U.K. hands down. Also, I think coming from London, that the U.K. is a more violent place to live.

Haz el amor! No a la guerra !!!!!!! ;)

[Chiny]

An interesting question. The links between Spain and England go back centuries, encompassing war (allies, enemies), trade and politics, with many reasons springing from those fundamentals.

Since the 50s, most will cite the weather but that can apply only to the Mediterranean; history indicates that the interior of Spain was avoided by most invaders and of course Madrid is modern compared to other European capitals. Personally, having frozen in eastern European winters and roasted in Middle Eastern summers, the weather in England appears innocuous. Next month, Chicago :cool:

Here in Bristol, where the links to Spain go back centuries, I see many Spanish nationals in the supermarkets, cafes, work and hear Spanish spoken locally. In the pub recently, someone first apologised to me in Spanish after accidentally standing on my foot, although did repeat the apology in English. Perhaps you would all like to guess why some Spanish head for the UK.

Somewhere on the BBC web site (can't find the link from a month or so ago), there is a list of countries to which UK nationals go - ISTR that Spain is No 2 on the list.

[Dave_K]

I am just listening to some old Podcasts Notes from Spain dating the year 2005. It' very curious: Why do so many english speaking people love Spain and encourage other people who want to move to Spain??

It's nice to know that ;D

I was thinking the same thing recently.

I also wonder whether any Spaniards love any other place(s) the way many extranjeros do Spain (I don't know any). Will Marina be starting Notes from Oxford soon?;D

[Acosta]

I was thinking the same thing recently.

I also wonder whether any Spaniards love any other place(s) the way many extranjeros do Spain (I don't know any). Will Marina be starting Notes from Oxford soon?;D


Notes from Los Angeles :)

[eldeano]

Notes from Silver Spring ;D

[ValenciaSon]

Notes from Silver Spring ;D

Too much culture in Silver Spring to be covered by a mere web blog:rolleyes:

[Marina]

As much as I love Oxford I think I won't:D:D:D

[Marina]

By the way there are lots of young Spanish professionals that live in England this days... and lots of them stay for good and love the life there. Specially in London.

[omeyas]

By the way there are lots of young Spanish professionals that live in England this days... and lots of them stay for good and love the life there. Specially in London.

Si es cierto, hay un sitio aquí (http://www.forolondres.com/foro/index.php?sid=d8c81b155b42f694ebeea29a727c3bab)que visito de vez en cuando. Es interesante leer del Reino Unido desde el punto de vista española.

[guapo]

It is the same with the English who move to France or Italy. When you compare dull, wet, cold, overcrowded, over-regulated, over-taxed England with any Mediterranean country, it doesn't stand a chance. And we are not mean and like to share this with our friends.

would agree with you on the climate but have my doubts about the over-regulated, over-taxed bit. My experience, based on Italy, is that taxes are higher (if you don't dodge them of course) and the level of bureaucracy and regulation is at times staggering.

[Dave_K]

I've been thinking about this more. Could it be that life in Spain is just better than most other places?

According to The Economist magazine, the answer is "yes". I remembered that The Economist periodically publishes a quality-of-life ranking, which last came out in 2005. Spain checked in at #10 (out of 111 countries ranked), US at #13, and UK at #29. Number 1 is a bit of a surprise (to me at least).

They try to base the rankings on relatively objective factors, but obviously the choice of factors (regardless of how objective they might be) that go into the rankings is going to be subjective.

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

[Ben]

I haven't checked the economist but I'm betting no. 1 was Denmark... no, it was Ireland! I find that strange.... anyway, as for Brits loving Spain I think it is just that it is conveniently close, the weather is great, the rules are laxer, the food pretty good, the violence less, fewer CCTV cameras etc etc ... anyway, I'm sure I am repeating all of the above, but I'm with Richard, we like to share a good find, hence all the enthusiasm here and in the podcasts!

[omeyas]

I haven't checked the economist but I'm betting no. 1 was Denmark... no, it was Ireland! I find that strange.... anyway, as for Brits loving Spain I think it is just that it is conveniently close, the weather is great, the rules are laxer, the food pretty good, the violence less, fewer CCTV cameras etc etc ... anyway, I'm sure I am repeating all of the above, but I'm with Richard, we like to share a good find, hence all the enthusiasm here and in the podcasts!

Sweden used to come out quite high in these satisfaction tables, my brother lives there, and he said, hell, it can be boring! Just looked and see the Finland is ranked 12th, don´t know if it still has, but it used to have the highest suicide rate in the world. Just looked at suicide rates, and it seems the higher up the list, the greater the number of suicides!
Figures for men include UK 11.8,Spain 12.8, Finland 34.6,Ireland 18.4, France 26. The "feel good factor" doesn´t seem to be working.
Don't know about the violence, I guess it depends where you live! :)
Alcorcón looks like a war zone compared with the sleepy little backwater where I live! :)
Not a big fan of the cameras either, although they have their uses. I watched a programme last night about a gang in London fitting false fronts on cash machine, and it was all recorded on CCTV. Plus the failed bombings on the London tubes, they were able to follow the bombers movements wherever they went in London, and provided invaluable evidence for the prosecution.

[Dave_K]

Sweden used to come out quite high in these satisfaction tables, my brother lives there, and he said, hell, it can be boring! Just looked and see the Finland is ranked 12th, don´t know if it still has, but it used to have the highest suicide rate in the world. Just looked at suicide rates, and it seems the higher up the list, the greater the number of suicides!
Figures for men include UK 11.8,Spain 12.8, Finland 34.6,Ireland 18.4, France 26. The "feel good factor" doesn´t seem to be working.


That's a very interesting point. I just looked at a list of suicide rates (probably the same one [WHO] you refer to) and these rates don't have any relation at all to the countries' qualities-of-life. Why is that?

[greytop]

That's a very interesting point. I just looked at a list of suicide rates (probably the same one [WHO] you refer to) and these rates don't have any relation at all to the countries' qualities-of-life. Why is that?
Maybe the ones that committed suicide did not vote / weren't asked how they felt? Statistics can be made to prove almost anything.

[djS]

Ireland been top of the list ..... will more the welcome to it ,
Its taxes , Here are very hight from comapny and people on the top and mid Income

30-40 years ago were a third world country , now leading lot of League tables of the richest place around Got more millionaires per head of captial

Buyying here in Ireland is very Expensive 2-3 bed room house make 3k to 4.5 k in citys and with bite off land 5 k and house price will increse buy 5 %

food has gone throught the roof here from water you buy to meat (in store )
Clothes, Shoes Accessories have all increse by 50% in last 5 years a beer here is 4.50 cent and can pay up 5.50 cents for late Bars

Power , gas car fuel all incressed by 50 % since 2000
Waste Management

Has gone up by 100 % with bin charges by loacl City Council in last year
Water Extra , Parking Charges will be go from 1.50 to 2 euros per hour

My parking cost me 1,300 and add tax with that , 250 euros

The roads in Ireland are shit ( sorry ) but that are there only motor ways in east and living in west the speed limits are 100 km per hour , get one slow driver and you stuck galway - shannon that 2 hours by road and no at 6 am i can do same tip in 1 hour 20 mins

We have 2.3m vehicles on Irish roads - Govt figures (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0201/cars.html) and here what happen to day on one off our main roads Kerry County Council investigates collapse of bridge Kerry County Council is investigating the collapse of a bridge in Lixnaw. Part of the bridge at Ballinagar collapsed shortly before lunch when a truck carrying pigs was traveling across it. The container attached to the lorry detached itself from the truck.

Bridge was built in 1993 ,
All cars/vehicles brought into Ireland (apart from temporary visits of less than 12 months) are subject to Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) around 30 % of the expected selling price. ( that price is off the irish car price )
Road tax here is all so very hight and is car insurance

I could go on and on but real it your Señoras were after Ha ha ha

Jurdy

[Damian Corrigan]

I was thinking the same thing recently.

I also wonder whether any Spaniards love any other place(s) the way many extranjeros do Spain (I don't know any). Will Marina be starting Notes from Oxford soon?;D


Fernando Alonso loved Oxford! But now he's had to move to Woking (presumably) to be with his new team. He shunned the yachts of Monaco for the punting boats of Oxford!

I don't think there is any country that many Spaniards move to, so there won't be a Spanish equivalent. Also, the Brits are lucky because they speak the world's lingua franca -the Spanish would struggle in most other countries.

Also, as was said, the Brits (and the Scandinavians, for that matter) move here because its sunnier and more relaxed. There's few places sunnier than Spain (well, parts of it) and if the Spanish were to move anywhere more relaxed they'd fall over!

Another difference is that while the Brits grumble all day about the UK, no Spaniard will ever say they don't like Spain (they'd probably be excommunicated or exiled). They're a very homely nation - mummy has to be close to hand!

Having said that, I've met a huge number of Spaniards who've spent time in Brighton and Bournemouth (the Costa del Sol of Blighty!) and they all like it there. The Spanish also always speak very highly Argentina, which I've heard people say is more Spanish than Latin American

[GeoOlive]

That's a very interesting point. I just looked at a list of suicide rates (probably the same one [WHO] you refer to) and these rates don't have any relation at all to the countries' qualities-of-life. Why is that?

It probably reflects that the internal environment is more important than the external. I have read that suicide rates are higher in Finland at 27 per 100,000 while the next highest was Norway at 20. The Scandinavian countries are certainly beautiful and good places to live, with Norway, Sweden, and Finland being in the top 12 in quality of life. Finns are noted for shyness, often debilitating, which is probably genetic. I suspect that these genetic tendencies outweigh the importance of the outward environment.

I think it is safe to say that suicide rates have a genetic and cultural etiology. They are much more likely when mixed with alcohol or drugs, which I suppose can be considered a cultural factor.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/179/3/194 is an interesting article, although it's conclusion is simply that more research is needed.

[Diana]

It probably reflects that the internal environment is more important than the external. I have read that suicide rates are higher in Finland at 27 per 100,000 while the next highest was Norway at 20. The Scandinavian countries are certainly beautiful and good places to live, with Norway, Sweden, and Finland being in the top 12 in quality of life. Finns are noted for shyness, often debilitating, which is probably genetic. I suspect that these genetic tendencies outweigh the importance of the outward environment.

I think it is safe to say that suicide rates have a genetic and cultural etiology. They are much more likely when mixed with alcohol or drugs, which I suppose can be considered a cultural factor.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/179/3/194 is an interesting article, although it's conclusion is simply that more research is needed.

Thanks for the link - indeed a very interesting article.

[richardksa]

Also, the Brits are lucky because they speak the world's lingua franca -the Spanish would struggle in most other countries.
Not a good argument. If the Brits come to Spain only able to speak English, the only Spaniards they could speak to are those who speak English. And they could could go to live in England.

And, if you read my article on the blog, many Spaniards are becoming very profficient at English. That was my first ever immpression of the country - the number of English language schools. It's a huge industry here and therefore must have a market. Ergo, Ben's blog about coming here to teach English.

Oh, I have heard a few grumbles about Spain from the Spanish, but then nowhere is perfect!

[Dave_K]

NY Times' "Notes From Oxford":

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/travel/11dayout.html?em&ex=1171429200&en=a6e8a31546233a3c&ei=5070

[sandy]

I can think of a few reasons:

1. The cost of living here is relatively lower than the rest of Europe. Money saved up working in other European countries can go a long way here.

2. Spain is a very safe country in general. Except for petty crimes, you don't hardly hear about random horrible crimes. In fact, I remember there were a few murders in Spain committed by foreigners, not locals.

3. Spanish are happy go lucky people. They seldom complain about life too much even when their disposable income is low. Everyone goes on vacation no matter how poor they are.

4. The weather is nicer than other parts of Europe, even in this area!

5. There are many unknown places to be discovered.

6. You can get a cleaning lady relatively cheaply--a luxury you don't find everywhere!

7. Spain offers lots of good food, good restaurants, and good wines. Eating out is relatively cheap. Where else can you buy a three course meal with wine for 10€? You order a beer for a little over a euro, they even give you a small tapa for free.

It's getting late now, otherwise I might be able to come up with more.

[Culebronchris]

Los of the Brits I know certainly don't love Spain. They thought they would, they thought it wold be like their holidays in Benidorm. They didn't know it gets cold, they thought they could live on ten quid a week and they thought everyone in the World spoke English. Now they're stuck here. They huddle together at quiz events run in English owned bars, hire English brickies and plumbers and moan about each and every Spanish institution from food to bureaucracy. The only reason that they stay is because there is nothing left "at home" and they are short of cash.

[djS]

I could go on and on but real it your Señoras were after Ha ha ha

Jurdy

[omeyas]

I can think of a few reasons:

1. The cost of living here is relatively lower than the rest of Europe. Money saved up working in other European countries can go a long way here.

It's certainly cheaper than UK, but I'm sure there are a lot of the newer additions to the EC that are cheaper than Spain. We have been visiting Spain for 20years, and it certainly isn't the bargain it used to be. I think this is borne out by the number of people now holidaying and investing in other tourist destinations. There are loads of new flight destinations opening up all over Europe. And dozens of properties unsold on the costas, the building seems to be unstoppable. Not sure of the facts, but a programme here said that Spain uses 50% of the cement/concrete used in Europe! Looking at the Costa del Sol (as I pass by on the motorway!) I can believe it.
You´re in the right part of Spain!


2. Spain is a very safe country in general. Except for petty crimes, you don't hardly hear about random horrible crimes. In fact, I remember there were a few murders in Spain committed by foreigners, not locals.

This depends on where you live in Spain, and where you live, say in UK, or the States. I have to say I feel much safer here in UK, but then I don't live in the likes of Manchester, Birmingham etc. I have only ever had my car broken into twice, and that was in Spain. I don't feel the need to have my house looking like Fort Knox, with rejas everywhere, alarms, dogs, private security etc. People we heard about thought they'd do without rejas, until they went to insure the property, nobody would touch it.

3. Spanish are happy go lucky people. They seldom complain about life too much even when their disposable income is low. Everyone goes on vacation no matter how poor they are.

Pretty much agree with that, although I have to say there are grumpy people everywhere! ;-) That's why they have words like gruñón!


4. The weather is nicer than other parts of Europe, even in this area!

Certainly there are months I choose like May, June,Sept, Oct etc which are normally excellent, but we are leaving on Saturday for Spain, and the weather for the week after Semana Santa is showing thunder and lightning! :( As someone has said later in this thread, it does get cold, which seems to come as a shock to some.

5. There are many unknown places to be discovered.

True

6. You can get a cleaning lady relatively cheaply--a luxury you don't find everywhere!

I married mine, but I wouldn´t say she has turned out to be cheap!

7. Spain offers lots of good food, good restaurants, and good wines. Eating out is relatively cheap. Where else can you buy a three course meal with wine for 10€? You order a beer for a little over a euro, they even give you a small tapa for free.

True! Which is fine for us, but Spanish wages are much lower than UK wages, so it probably doesn´t seem so cheap to them.

It's getting late now, otherwise I might be able to come up with more.

That's enough! But warts and all, we enjoy Spain very much, and accept it for what it is, and accept that like everywhere else, it's not perfect. We'll be there on Sat for a month, and just hope that it's not too much a case of "En abril, aguas mil!":)

[djS]

and I could go on and on but real it your Señoras were after Ha ha ha

Jurdy

[sandy]

Los of the Brits I know certainly don't love Spain. They thought they would, they thought it wold be like their holidays in Benidorm...

I think the foreigners sit and bash their host countries everywhere. I do that sometimes. It does not mean I don't like it, but when you are with a bunch of foreigners, you talk about how this country does things differently, and of course, the way we were used to it was the correct one (ha ha).

[sandy]

It's certainly cheaper than UK, but I'm sure there are a lot of the newer additions to the EC that are cheaper than Spain. We have been visiting Spain for 20years, and it certainly isn't the bargain it used to be. I think this is borne out by the number of people now holidaying and investing in other tourist destinations. There are loads of new flight destinations opening up all over Europe. And dozens of properties unsold on the costas, the building seems to be unstoppable. Not sure of the facts, but a programme here said that Spain uses 50% of the cement/concrete used in Europe! Looking at the Costa del Sol (as I pass by on the motorway!) I can believe it.
You´re in the right part of Spain!

You are probably right. I didn't think about the newly associated states.

This depends on where you live in Spain, and where you live, say in UK, or the States. I have to say I feel much safer here in UK, but then I don't live in the likes of Manchester, Birmingham etc. I have only ever had my car broken into twice, and that was in Spain. I don't feel the need to have my house looking like Fort Knox, with rejas everywhere, alarms, dogs, private security etc. People we heard about thought they'd do without rejas, until they went to insure the property, nobody would touch it.

I have heard that Spain has one of the lowest crime rate in Europe. I certainly feel very safe in the streets of Bilbao or Madrid.

Certainly there are months I choose like May, June,Sept, Oct etc which are normally excellent, but we are leaving on Saturday for Spain, and the weather for the week after Semana Santa is showing thunder and lightning! :( As someone has said later in this thread, it does get cold, which seems to come as a shock to some.

Good luck! The weather has been very bad around here.

I married mine, but I wouldn´t say she has turned out to be cheap!

Is your wife reading this? What is her email address? :)