Any bad experiences in Spain? [Archive] - Notes from Spain and Spanish Forum

wil129

13th February 2007, 10:18 PM

Hi everyone some friends of mine just got back in the US from Spain and they were telling me that they had a bad experience in Madrid with some "skinheads". I didn't think you could use Spain and Skinhead in the same sentence. They said they did not have any problems with them(skinheads) it was they were marching in the streets with banners and different colors of flags.And does anybody know of an origination called combat Espana?
My Friends saw these(Combat Espana) banners in Barcelona, Zaragoza, and in Madrid does anyone know what this is just curious thanks.

Ben

13th February 2007, 10:40 PM

I once had a bad experience in Spain with a friend from the Dominican Republic. we were going to see Real Madrid and went drinking in one of the plazas near the stadium beforehand. He was very dark skinned and after a couple of minutes some of the 'ultra sur' supporters, many of whom were skinheads, came over and started mocking us, asking me what I was doing with a 'puto negro'. I said he was my friend and at the same time said to him and the other two guys we were with that we should get going immediately. We left in a hail of badly aimed kicks and stones and were really shaken up by the experience. There were no police anywhere to be seen, though there were plenty just around the corner in a less conflictive street. The thing was that I had drunk in the same plaza in the past without anyone paying any attention to me and my other white friends - then I had just thought it was fun to be with the real 'hardcore' supporters. I had no idea they were racist scum until this happened. To be honest it put me off Real Madrid enormously, as these people, the 'ultra sur', are pretty much accepted and supported by the club.

So that was a bad experience, but I do want to point out that it was very isolated. In general there is no racist violence in Madrid. Just keep away from the heavy drinking plazas before big footy games and everything should be alright. If you want to know more, read a book called 'Diario de un skin' (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundolibro/2003/01/28/anticuario/1043249493.html) by a journalist who infiltrated the hard right here in Madrid. I hear it is an excellent book... and that he now lives under a new identity for fear of reprisals...

Dave_K

14th February 2007, 12:17 AM

Hi Ben, could you elaborate on what 'ultra sur' is/means? Is this a group of racists devoted to a particular sports team? The article you posted refers to "el neonazismo y los ultras del fútbol".

I've seen the odd swastika spray-painted on walls in Spain, but I'd estimate that such things don't occur at a higher rate there than here (mid-Atlantic US). But I was surprised as I assumed skinhead neonazism was a US/UK thing.

greytop

14th February 2007, 07:59 AM

Although I've not had any bad experiences I see reports from time to time in the papers about anarchist behaviour in Valencia. It is mostly associated with skinheads and has involved desecration of churches and retaliatory behaviour when "okupas" have been moved out of properties where they have been squatting. Recently they retaliated (allegedly) by setting fire to rubbish containers and cars for several nights after one such eviction.
You are never sure with these type of reports as to how prevalent such behaviour is. The papers never report peaceful activity!
Are the riots and anti-social behaviour in France not another example?

ValenciaSon

14th February 2007, 10:35 AM

I remember reading last year in La Marca that some football players of color in Spain complained because ultra sur members present at the match were harassing the footballers of color and they've complained that the ultra sur also harass their families. One player vowed to leave Spain permanently. I've only read it once though.

Ben

14th February 2007, 10:58 AM

There certainly isn't a big skinhead/neonazi movement here and what there is is mostly connected to football and the 'ultras' - Ultras are hardcore football (soccer) supporters who tend to be violent (looking for fights with other football supporters from other teams etc) and do often take on the causes of neonazism and so on. The ultra sur is the Real Madrid version - they sit at the bottom of the south stands in the stadium, hence the sur in their name. Mostly they just wave nazi flags, get very drunk and have the occasional scrap. I for one will never go drinking on the south side of the stadium before games again after the experience I talk about above. The thing which really gets me though is that the clubs support these hooligans. Real Madrid will often give them free transport and tickets to away games and they have a special room in the stadium in which to store there flags etc.

Dave_K

14th February 2007, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the explanation. I asked my wife and she said, "Oh, they're Houlihan's" ;D (a restaurant chain here). "Hooligans?" "Yes".

wil129

14th February 2007, 05:24 PM

Thanks Ben you ansered one of my questions about the skinhead population in Spain. What about these banners about Combat Espana have you herd anything about this org?

Ben

14th February 2007, 05:34 PM

Nothing I'm afraid... it sort of rings a bell though...

rhodian

14th February 2007, 08:09 PM

broadening to more general bad experiences... but still staying with racism a bit...

everyone i met one summer (in granada) who had visited madrid with friends had a great time; everyone who went alone got mugged. so i thought to myself - hmm, must go to madrid someday, and bring a friend!

so two years later, that's what i did. BUT we had arranged to meet in granada, and we took an overnight slow train to madrid. well, in the space of that journey we just got so tired and grumpy with each other that i was sick looking at him, so we agreed (at my rather selfish suggestion - he had no spanish) that we part and meet up later.

FIVE MINUTES later, i was alone in a long metro tunnel and suddenly this kid with a knife appeared from nowhere and was asking me for money!! happily, as i was fumbling in my pockets, some passers-by passed by and i just sort of... walked away.

anyway, i was really shaken up and told several authority figures and random barmen about it. they all insisted that it MUST have been a morroccan. it wasn't, though - he was spanish.

[ps i've since returned to madrid many times and had wonderful experiences, even alone. and the metro is probably one of the safest in europe. just don't hang about too long looking lost!]

wil129

14th February 2007, 09:09 PM

www.combatespana.org (http://www.combatespana.org) did some research on google and yahoo but don't know what this is about.Is there anyone who can translate this Please.

greytop

15th February 2007, 08:48 AM

www.combatespana.org (http://www.combatespana.org) did some research on google and yahoo but don't know what this is about.Is there anyone who can translate this Please.
Although I'm not the ultimate authority on transslation of Spanish it seems to me that they appear to want to provide a platform to change public perception of "la juventud nacional revolucionaria" - the national revolutionary youth. They would do this across a broad set of issues, such as immigration, unemployment, lack of affordable housing, rights of Spaniards to stay Spanish etc.
More obviously "También queremos cambiar la forma de pensar de la sociedad y de algunas de las llamadas fuerzas nacionales, los cuales a nuestro movimiento, y más concretamente, a los skinheads, nos han tachado de violentos y sin ideología política." We would like to change the way society and some of the national authorities think of our movement, and more concretely the skinheads, as being violent and lacking political ideology.
They seem to work via poster campaigns and attendance at public meetings and events and hope to be represented right across Spain.
I don't think I'll be joining

Paco

15th February 2007, 11:43 AM

They are "getting organized" I read all the messeges in YouTUbe, and that's what they are doing. When I went to Madrid a year ago they talked to me and they gave me some info of his group, but I thought back them they were just a bunch of punks, smoking grass, and they maybe be but if you read the history of the Nazi Party in Germany they were a bunch of Punks at the begining probably smoking garbage too. and no one paid attention to them until Adolf was the "president of Germany" I think we have to look at them seriously. after all Spain was a facist country for a while. What do you think? Inever had a bad experience in Spain but I look like the regular Joe in Spain, and I can even fake the accent, (which I do) but I did have several bad experiences in Paris, and one of them I was looking to buy Floss, and I was unable to find it. Until we went to a drug store close to the AMerican Embassy and I got on box, and They charge me 5 dollars for it. so if you know somebody in Paris, you know what you could send them for CHristmas.
Paco.

wil129

15th February 2007, 03:47 PM

OK thanks everyone for your input,my wife and I are planning to go to Madrid in 2008 is there any places or sides of town we should avoid?

eldeano

15th February 2007, 03:54 PM

OK thanks everyone for your input,my wife and I are planning to go to Madrid in 2008 is there any places or sides of town we should avoid?

Don't wander along the road through Case de Campo up to the Teleférico. You might get propositioned!

Paco

16th February 2007, 02:44 PM

wil129

16th February 2007, 09:48 PM

If you are non-white I advise to you my friend, to go out only in groups or during the day. I just found out a friend of my family had problems in Madrid in the middle of the night, he is japanese. (And my brother told me in a small town they tried to kill two guys HISPANOS, I beleive they were Gutemalans), I haven' yet talk to him or his wife, but, it happened in the middle of the night but I dont know where. I am telling you guys, keep an eye on these punks. Is not the first time in history of Spain this happened. This is sad very sad..... Paco.

Thanks for the advice PACO I am not worried about me my grandmother is from Spain the País Vasco region (San Sabestian) then she (my grandmother) moved to Canary Islands. People that I meet from Spain say that I look like a “clear Spaniard” does anyone know what this term is referring to? It is my wife that I am concerned about her family is from Mèxico, and is very dark skinned.

Ben

17th February 2007, 08:33 AM

Really I think you will be fine. Spain is not a dangerous place if you use the same common sense you would use anywhere else. Steer clear of dodgy looking areas and all should be fine.

Paco

17th February 2007, 11:06 AM

If you could fake the accent you are going to do better. Just be careful dont go to places where "no men went before" if you know what I mean.
My Skin Head experience was in the middle of the night in the Metro en Madrid, I never saw "cabezas de piel" during the day. Maybe is only me, but I avoid as much as possible to "hit the road" at night. The last time we did so. I did it with two other couples, and one of my friends is a huge, a 6'4" blond viking decendent from Scandinavia, married to an American girl from Pennsylvania,USA. he intimidate me an he is my pal. He doesnt speak Spanish but people in the streets called him "el gigante". We spend the night out we went to pubs and to Flamenco Dancing Places I love that.and we didnt have any problems maybe because of my friend.... HAHAHAHAH. We did have problems with people seated in the bleachers when we went to LOS TOROS. They complained because My Friend was too big. HAHAHAHAH:D Paco.
IF you look like them you have no problems. Usually and this is my experience again they dont pay too much attention to ladies.

richardksa

17th February 2007, 04:09 PM

Don't wander along the road through Case de Campo up to the Teleférico. You might get propositioned!

There is no "might" about it. I made that walk from the lake up to the teleferico, just two Sundays mornings ago and was propositioned twice. It was a beautiful sunny morning, but not exactly warm. The first "lady" I met was small, black and appeared to be dressed in hot pants and a tee shirt which left much belly exposed. But when she turned away from me the whole of the rear of the hotpants was completely cut away, leaving me with a view of two round brown buttocks. She must have been cold, poor thing. Surprisingly she was plying her trade about fifty metres down hill from where families were watching a game of football and only just a short distance away from the municipal tennis courts.
Further up the hill a rather large lady, who was no longer in the prime of her youth, "Tsked" me as I walked by. I declined, but smiled and she smiled back and beckoned me towards her. What did they used to say in the News of the World? "I made my excuses and left"!

djS

17th February 2007, 04:17 PM

Oldest trade in the World , but was ask on Gran Via and just so you know it 200 euros for 2 hours but say could get that down to 100 euros if real wanted it
jurdy

richardksa

17th February 2007, 07:01 PM

Dammit, I just never carry enough money!:rolleyes:

MrMark

21st October 2007, 05:58 PM

I know a guy who settled in Madrid, and convinced by all the Guiri propaganda that he shouldn't support Real, went down to watch Atleti a few times. Hasn't gone again - aparently their hard-core Ultras make the Real lot look like kittens.
Incidentally it seems as though most of the Latins and EEs settling in Madrid support Real, so let's hope the racist element gets diluted down to a point it disappears.

danielo

27th October 2007, 02:32 AM

allan

27th October 2007, 09:58 AM

The Spanish language papers here in the U.S. are talking about the incident in Barcelona where a young man kicked a 17 year old girl in the face on the train. But I don't think individual incident characterize a country. There are sickos everywhere.

Now they're saying that this Spaniard is mentally unstable. ¡No me digas!

Danielo

This incident was caught on CCTV and shown on TVE news.
He seems to shout at her, then punch her. He then walks away,
returns and kicks her in the face and calmly walks off the train.
Odd thing is, he is holding what looks like a mobile phone (cellphone)
to his ear the whole time.

More disturbingly, there is another passenger in the carriage who
just sits and watches the whole episode looking, frankly, rather bored.

She was said to be Colombian or Ecuadorian, and it's being treated as
a racist attack. I may have some of this wrong as my Spanish, as yet,
isn't brilliant and TVE newscasters do talk very fast.

Allan

Juanjo

28th October 2007, 09:59 AM

This incident was caught on CCTV and shown on TVE news.He seems to shout at her, then punch her. He then walks away,returns and kicks her in the face and calmly walks off the train. Odd thing is, he is holding what looks like a mobile phone (cellphone) to his ear the whole time.

More disturbingly, there is another passenger in the carriage who just sits and watches the whole episode looking, frankly, rather bored.

She was said to be Colombian or Ecuadorian, and it's being treated as a racist attack. I may have some of this wrong as my Spanish, as yet,isn't brilliant and TVE newscasters do talk very fast.

See http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Zorra/inmigrante/mierda/elpepuesp/20071027elpepinac_17/Tes
for details of this racist attack. I can´t work out who is the bigger coward, the rat who attacked her or the wimp he sat by and let it happen!

danielo

29th October 2007, 05:30 PM

The pres of Ecuador invited the attacker to visit Ecuador to see for himself all the great things about the country. If only all leaders took such a calm, peaceful approach!

Grimace

2nd November 2007, 09:49 AM

Seeing that on TV made me sick, especially because of the many nice and friendly Ecuadoreans I've met while in Spain. Still, the guy that did it is in a whole world of shit now and probably will be for a long time.

epicous

22nd November 2007, 01:57 AM

Thanks for the advice PACO I am not worried about me my grandmother is from Spain the País Vasco region (San Sabestian) then she (my grandmother) moved to Canary Islands. People that I meet from Spain say that I look like a “clear Spaniard” does anyone know what this term is referring to? It is my wife that I am concerned about her family is from Mèxico, and is very dark skinned.

Do spanish skinheads look like this mexican football player?

http://www.senorgol.nu/images/gtorrado.jpg

greytop

2nd December 2007, 12:28 PM

Anyone interested in current point of view from within Spain on the subject of racism may like to read this article from El Semanal (http://lasprovincias.xlsemanal.com/web/articulo.php?id=23317&id_edicion=2627) (Las Provincias Sunday magazine). I found the individual stories down the right hand side particularly interesting.

Jordi-fcb

14th January 2008, 12:31 AM

I joined up after seeing this topic on google and from my experiences there are a few Neo-nazis around Spain it's just knowing where and where not to bump into them. I had a bad experience a few weeks back because I was over for the Barca-Madrid game, after we lost 0-1 I was walking along the Avinguda De Roma near the Trains Station and some random person asked me a question in Spanish and I replied in Catalan "Ho Sento No Parlo Espanyol" sorry I don't speak much spanish and the nest thing I know he grabbed me around the neck and pinned me against a wall, this of course was a 30 year old man and I'm only 15, also he had a little gang with him he was shouting in my face puta catalanes, and called me a hijo de puta for not speaking spanish I belive or could of been because I was wereing a Barretina (Catalan Hat), when I thought all this was over he starting saying Murete and of course I know that means die eventally he let go but I'm not sure why so I just ran away.

If anyone needs help in Barcelona for football I'll be sure to help

Ben

14th January 2008, 08:04 AM

Hi Jordi,

What a nightmare experience, I'm glad you got away in one piece. You are right when you say it's all about avoiding the wrong places at the wrong time... the trouble is it can be hard to know where and when those places are!

Jordi-fcb

16th January 2008, 04:36 PM

Yeah true mate

gary

16th January 2008, 04:56 PM

Barca v Madrid waring partisan aparrel (for either side) and being near a train station rings a lot of alarm bells. The home fans know the away fans will be there and those that are looking for a rumble will congregate...
Football in the UK was the same in the 70s and 80s - staying out of town was a good idea on Saturday afternoon after the match even in backwater Barnsley....

Hernández Fiendish

20th January 2008, 08:31 PM

radiobemba

22nd January 2008, 05:53 AM

i was pretty shocked after reading this thread; i didn't notice any of this during my month's stay in madrid. then i again... i could pass for a spaniard (before speaking hahaha).

just to see for myself, i went into this spain chat thing and said some pretty inflammatory things to see what response i would elicit.

the results confirmed what i've read.

* Entered room Spain
[me] VIVA ETA
[SUPER HEROE *ASTUR*] CALLA CERDO
[black site] SUPER BUENOS DIAS SOLDADO
[black site] ARRIBA ESPAÑA
[black site] RADIO BEMBA CALLATE PANCHITO
[black site] LARGATE DE AQUI SUCADA MUGRIENTO Y APESTOSO

etc, more racist insults, swearing.

i find it funny that they were calling me a derogatory name for a south american when i was assuming the role of a basque person, hmmmm.

greytop

22nd January 2008, 10:49 AM

....
i find it funny that they were calling me a derogatory name for a south american when i was assuming the role of a basque person, hmmmm.Maybe they were South American? Next time you're in Madrid try shouting it at a football match ;) That way you'll be able to gauge the response much better - at least for a minute or two.

radiobemba

22nd January 2008, 08:53 PM

I feel very insulted to hear this and don't find it funny at all. You DID NOT take the personality of a Basque person, you defended the undefendable, a Terrorist group that has killed so many people here in Spain that you should be ashamed of yourself to make a "joke" with this.

I understand the indignation of the other members of the chat, even though the terms used were definitely completely out of place.

You did not confirm anything at all with this. Anybody who defends a Terrorist group does not deserve any kind of respect.

well of course it wasn't "funny", as in, ha ha ha, funny.
don't take things so literally.
funny, in that context, meant pathetic, sad, stupid, etc..

and yeah, i realized this morning that ETA was the terrorist group and that i should have just said, viva batasuna, viva cataluña, viva peru, or whatever.

so i messed up there, haha.

anyway, i'm not going to feel ashamed because i had forgotten what ETA was, and i didn't mean that at all :rolleyes:

gary

22nd January 2008, 09:03 PM

I feel very insulted to hear this and don't find it funny at all. .

Funny in this context means srtange or incongruous - its an idiom

radiobemba

22nd January 2008, 09:05 PM

yes. and looks like i have to exclude batasuna from my post above, as i just wikipedia'd them and they're terroristy.

ignorance is bliss :p

gary

22nd January 2008, 09:21 PM

ignorance is bliss :pYou are playing a dangerous game...

Each country has its own terrorists and for an outsider to comment on the situation which he does not fully understand is, to say the least, foolish.

England is a country famed for its tolerance and freedom of speech but there are places where, if you made a crass statement in favour of the misguided young men that bombed the London Metro for instance, you would at the very least wind up in hospital.

Ignorance can be bliss but it also might get you maimed.

With my moderators hat on I reckon that this thread could have taken a turn for the worse, I would ask everyone be careful not to make unintentional inflamatory statements

radiobemba

22nd January 2008, 09:33 PM

Each country has its own terrorists and for an outsider to comment on the situation which he does not fully understand is, to say the least, foolish.

lol, this is the internet, i am in little to no physical danger, and i NEVER would have said this in real life. you guys are taking this wayyyyyy too seriously.

...if you made a crass statement in favour of the misguided young men that bombed the London Metro for instance, you would at the very least wind up in hospital.

yeah, that sort of has nothing to do with anything.

we were talking about racism in spain. i'm not sure when we started talking about islamic fundamentalists.

gary

22nd January 2008, 11:49 PM

what goes on in these forums has no implications on anything.

This is the section that you edited out of your last post.
If you really feel this way perhaps this may not be the place for you...
I would be interested to know why you took this line out of your original post, that is of course, presuming that you are interested in rational discourse as opposed to winding people up.

radiobemba

22nd January 2008, 11:52 PM

So we were...until you brought a terrorist group into the conversation.

I don't think one should joke about these things.

dude, you have no idea what you're talking about :rolleyes:

nobody was ever joking, and there was no mention of joking until you arrived.

also, never at one point was i serious about anything that i said. i told the people in the chat afterwards, and everything was hunky dory.

also, your faculty of vB code is masterful :rolleyes:

gary

22nd January 2008, 11:54 PM

Enough youre gone

jonk

24th January 2008, 05:51 AM

This is a very general statement. One seems to understand that only the Real Madrid has followers who are "ultra". Never heard of the Boixos Nois (Barsa) and the Frente Atlético (Atlético de MAdrid)??
Here, in all these groups, we are not talking a bout Madrid followers, Barsa followers or Atlético followers , but a bunch of idiots and weirdos.

I gather this is the same in most countries, isn't it?

We have almost zero football related violence in Australia. Since the new league started, someone got hit by a coin once, other people had glass on their face when a window was smashed, a few punch-ons.... in 3 seasons of football this is all obviously quite minor.

The police have hospitalised more people than anyone due to copious use of capsicum spray. (Recently seen at the Australian Open)

jonk

25th January 2008, 03:26 AM

We can certainly count Australia out then. I have heard and seen this all over European football though. The tifosi from "Lazio" Italy, the hooligans from Liverpool, the fanatics German followers...all over Europe you can see this phenomena.

I have never heard "capsicum spray". What is it used for? What does it do?

saludos:-*
Capsicum spray is our name for ... pepper spray... like in America. I think it's pepper spray

(Red and Green Peppers are called Capsicums in Aus.)

In case you still havent heard of it, when you spray it in someones eyes it hurts a lot. The clouds of it blow around and hit other people as well. The police sprayed some supporters so much that they hospitalised some people standing 100m away...

There's a bunch of fans in Aus who admire the "tough guy ultra" mentality in Italy, greece etc and want to copy it. Thankfully they are a small minority.

gary

25th January 2008, 09:23 AM

I have never heard "capsicum spray". What is it used for? What does it do?

saludos:-*

If you have ever been chopping hot chillie peppers and absentmindedly rubbed your eye you will have a good sense of what pepper spray does...:eek:

Juanjo

25th January 2008, 11:10 AM

If you have ever been chopping hot chillie peppers and absentmindedly rubbed your eye you will have a good sense of what pepper spray does...:eek:

...... and don't even mess with the CS spray that UK police use, sometimes indiscriminately, unless you like puking and thinking you are dying! They are now gradually progessing to Tasers which can kill you if you have a weak heart:eek:

Juanjo

EnergyRecrui

17th November 2008, 04:21 PM

At the risk of patronizing, to me Spain harkens back to a more wholesome time, like, say, the Eisenhower era in the USA. I think during the isolation of the Franco years, Spain got stuck in time. After Franco, the country worked overtime playing cultural catch-up (witness the El Destape movie phenomenon of the late 70’s). The generation gap between Franco-era parents and post-Franco children is enormous, and yet these Franco-era parents still dominate the picture, with their lead role in the extended family. Almost certainly the Franco-era mother was and is principally a housewife, while the husband was the breadwinner (just like in ‘Leave It To Beaver’!)

tajo

17th November 2008, 08:10 PM

Reading this thread I must say I feel very lucky to be living in Ronda. Most people here support Real Madrid, but I don't think I've ever seen a skinhead, or anybody who wants to cause trouble. Sure, there is some crime in Ronda, but I can honestly say the horror stories being related here seem a whole world away.

@Gary, good on you for moderating!

kenpeace

17th November 2008, 09:28 PM

If you have ever been chopping hot chillie peppers and absentmindedly rubbed your eye you will have a good sense of what pepper spray doesI used to work in a small pharmaceutical company. One of our raw materials was capsicum extract - imagine extracting and concentrating all the hot parts of chillies into one material. I don't want to offend anyone so I will just say that everyone in that lab was very careful about washing their hands before visiting the toilet.

kenpeace

17th November 2008, 09:30 PM

.... oh yeah and does anyone remember the old Viz comic article, how to tell if you are a chemist or a drug dealer?

You spend your days weighing out powder in a laboratory - CHEMIST
You spend your days weighing out powder in a lavatory - DRUG DEALER

Great days.

gary

18th November 2008, 01:36 PM

speige

24th April 2009, 01:02 AM

I went to mexico for a few months and had a great time with great people, but i was warned about a few bad neighborhoods not to go to... I'm sure there's good and bad everywhere, just depends where you go.

reflex

26th April 2009, 12:23 PM

I'm not for one moment trying to defend the attack on you but wearing a barretina in the aftermath of a Madrid-FCB game and replying to a question in Catalan is plain stupid.Plain stupid?? That is so twisted as to say that women provoke rape by the way they dress or act.

I wonder if you realize that you're blaming the victim of an assault. Besides don't you forget football is just a game FGS!