Los Toros

[el gringo]

Ben and Maria,
I love your podcasts for their help in conversational Spanish as well as their interesting content. However, I think you must be careful when you are discussing a controversial subject and you both take the same side. In the interest of fairness, you should have a representative of the other point of view participate. Your discussion of Los Toros, although it tried at times to make points to understand it's existence and economic importance, was completely against this cultural phenomenon. As long as you intend to discuss controversial ideas(admirable in itself) please try to present the opposing point of view, even if you have to invite a guest. If you wish, I can send you the names of people in Madrid who would be happy to participate. Keep up the good work.
El Gringo

[Margot]

Ben and Maria,
I think you must be careful when you are discussing a controversial subject and you both take the same side. In the interest of fairness, you should have a representative of the other point of view participate. As long as you intend to discuss controversial ideas(admirable in itself) please try to present the opposing point of view, even if you have to invite a guest. If you wish, I can send you the names of people in Madrid who would be happy to participate.

As a member of the forum I really don't think that Ben and Marina have any obligation at all to "present the opposing point of view within their podcasts"......after all they are not "a public trust".

"Opposing points of view" are always welcome and encouraged in the FORUM however; it's open to all viewpoints and extremely democratic; I believe it becomes quickly apparent that all members are encouraged to express divergent points of view - so long as it's done in a respectful manner; if and when anyone feels differently about an issue...they're free to express that difference and they do!..... it makes the forum a vibrant site. Furthermore I do believe that controversial subjects have always elicited such discussion.....look at the thread regarding "Los Cambios Climáticos"...just to cite a recent example.
Finally - this reply to your post is, in itself, an expression of an opposing point of view. I think we'd all be interested to read your views about bullfighting. But again - postings to the forum are confined to members - which anyone can become - including those people in Madrid to whom you refer in your message.
I hope this doesn't sound confrontational - but I felt that Ben and Marina were being lectured to (I don't think you meant it that way...but it just came out like that) and I also happen to disagree with you...hence this reply.

[Ben]

Hi el Gringo, and welcome. I understand your point of view, and indeed in the case of the Toros we do at some point plan to do a podcast with people who support this huge cultural phenomenon. However, it is not always possible to seek out people who have different views on a particular subject for each podcast, and as Margot pointed out we always suggest that people come to the forum to put forward their ideas on a subject afterwards. having said that, and despite the fact that the podcasts do represent our point of view, we always try to include real life facts and figures, in order to try to provide some balance. In any case, I appreciate what you are saying, that you would like an even sided debate, and will take it into account in the future.

[Edith]

The fact that 70 % of the Spanish reject bullfights outright speaks for itself. Cultures evolve, and traditions disappear as a consequence of changing values. We have discussed this topic before, nuff said! ;)

[Ben]

nuff said! ;)Edith are you sure you aren't really English!? :D

[Edith]

Edith are you sure you aren't really English!? :D

;D

English no, a Beeb addict yes! :D

[Pepino]

I'm undecided about bullfighting myself, but tend to lean towards Ben and Marina's opinions on the subject. I've considered going to one just to see for myself and then make my mind up based on what I see and not the two arguments of the opposite sides of the debate, but I do feel a bit uneasy about going, and I don't think it'll be something that I'll actively push to do.

As far as always giving opposing opinions, I'm not sure that's really necessary in this context. NFS/NIS isn't the BBC, (and although it's one hell of a public service ;)), it's not intended to do anything other than give an insight into all things Spanish, as seen from the viewpoint of two people who happen to live there and know it well. The whole thing grew out of a blog at the end of the day, and what's a blog if it's not a way to give personal opinions, and then receive replies of all types - for and against?

One of the many things I like about the podcasts is that you know the opinions given are those genuinely held by Ben and Marina (and their occasional interviewees) so it makes the whole thing more real. The push to always be balanced 50/50 makes for blandness at times as everyone is too uptight to give a real opinion.

And as for Edith's English, it's the bees-knees! ;D

[greytop]

Got to agree with those of you who think it would be better not to have bulls killed for fun. We had a similar argument about fox hunting in the UK and it still goes on despite a law against it. Trying to educate people is probably going to work better in the long term but a shove from the law makers in the right direction might be necessary.
I do watch a corrida very occasionally on the TV and can see that being there would be quite an experience but so far I've chickened out, partly because I don't want to support it financially. (I particularly don't like the bit with the guy on a horse gouging bits out of the bull to weaken it)
Whatever you feel about it the matadors & picadors are very courageous & skilful to do what they do and even the best get it wrong sometimes and get hurt. Even a weakened bull is a lot of animal if it hits you.
There are also a lot more events in Spain with live animals being taunted for fun, even if they are not killed. Cock fighting still goes on, bull running is very common, duck catching and so on.
Compared to the human suffering inflicted by power crazy politicians round the world it is a minor thing, but at least by not supporting it we may hasten its demise.

[el gringo]

I appreciate your reply, Ben and again am willing to point you to people who offer a different view.

I do not intend to get into a forum debate about bullfighting. This is a useless exercise, because in the long run, no one ever changes sides on this emotional topic. You either like it or not(toros).

I was not lecturing to Ben and Maria, just expressing myself, as others do; that there are differing viewpoints on certain subjects. Yes, this is not the BBC. But that's not a bad standard either.

Again thank you for your interest.

[Edith]

One of the many things I like about the podcasts is that you know the opinions given are those genuinely held by Ben and Marina (and their occasional interviewees) so it makes the whole thing more real. The push to always be balanced 50/50 makes for blandness at times as everyone is too uptight to give a real opinion.

How very true! Apart from that, Ben & Marina's podcasts are very lively and natural, and at some point there is always a funny moment, which I really like.

And as for Edith's English, it's the bees-knees! ;D

I'm still trying to learn one or two new words every day, and to avoid the pitfalls of Dunglish...! ;) Thanks for that little gem by the way, I didn't know the expression but I do now! :D

the bee's "corbiculae", or pollen-baskets, are located on its
tibiae (midsegments of its legs). The phrase "the bee's knees",
meaning "the height of excellence", became popular in the U.S. in
the 1920s

[Pepino]

I was actually on the verge of saying "the dog's bollocks". It means much the same thing, but it's "muy poco fino" as Marina would say! jeje

[Edith]

I was actually on the verge of saying "the dog's bollocks". It means much the same thing, but it's "muy poco fino" as Marina would say! jeje

;D ;D ;D

[Margot]

As far as always giving opposing opinions, I'm not sure that's really necessary in this context. NFS/NIS isn't the BBC

The push to always be balanced 50/50 makes for blandness at times

....or Fox News ("Fair & Balanced") at other times:eek:

[eldeano]

Yes, this is not the BBC. But that's not a bad standard either.


It's got to be good - it doesn't show LOST. ;)

[Edith]

....or Fox News ("Fair & Balanced") at other times:eek:

Fox News, LOLOLOLOL ;)

[omeyas]

I was actually on the verge of saying "the dog's bollocks".

Or slightly more refined, the "mutt´s nuts"! :) There is of course a popular beer (http://www.wychwood.co.uk/cgi/pd/pd.cgi?image=/pd/images/art_dogsbollocks_brag.jpg&title=Dogs+Bollocks+Postcard&form=form-basic.html) here in UK of the above name

[richardksa]

I had just spent the morning sending e-mails with huge attachments to a colleague. When done he sent me a message that said, "Thanks. That's the dog's bollocks. I owe you one!" So, should I be waiting for a small package to arrive any day soon?

[OzSimon]

I'm undecided about bullfighting myself, but tend to lean towards Ben and Marina's opinions on the subject. I've considered going to one just to see for myself and then make my mind up based on what I see and not the two arguments of the opposite sides of the debate, but I do feel a bit uneasy about going, and I don't think it'll be something that I'll actively push to do.

I have been to a bullfight myself (many years ago now) so have found this whole discussion very thought provoking. Like most live events that one can go to I have to say that the atmosphere and spectacle that I experienced is something completely lost on TV. The pomp and ceremony was truly amazing and as others have said the skill and experience of the matadors impressive. I was genuinely suprised at how excited and involved the crowd got in the whole thing.

Did I enjoy the day? Yes I did.
Would I go again to a bullfight? No I wouldn't.
Would I mind if there were no more bullfights? No I wouldn't.
What does that make me? I don't know. :confused:

[omeyas]

[quote=richardksa;21012That's the dog's bollocks. I owe you one!" So, should I be waiting for a small package to arrive any day soon?[/quote]

Or a large package, if it's a crate of beer. :)

Time you changed your sig to "Envejecer es obligatorio, crecer es opcional"! :)

[richardksa]

Hecho!

[gary]

The fact that 70 % of the Spanish reject bullfights outright speaks for itself. Cultures evolve, and traditions disappear as a consequence of changing values. We have discussed this topic before, nuff said! ;)

Less than 40% of the voters in the UK voted for the government - thus proving that all politics id a load of old Bull?

[Alison30]

It's got to be good - it doesn't show LOST. ;)


Lost is good tho???!

[Edith]

Less than 40% of the voters in the UK voted for the government - thus proving that all politics id a load of old Bull?

Well, in the West we abolished some cherished old traditions like slavery and the death penalty too, didn't we? And the Dayaks of Borneo no longer practice head-hunting... :D