Immigrants to Spain deported back to Senegal

[Brian]

España repatría a 189 senegaleses en siete vuelos secretos

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/135279/0/senegal/inmigrantes/repatriados/

It seems that Spain is busily deporting some of the new immigrants who arrived at the Canary Islands in little rafts-- with compassion. They sent them back with 300 Euros in hand, on night-time flights.

Of course, 189 deportations is only a drop in the bucket compared to those who are arriving in the Canaries in droves-- a big problem for Spain.

If you were in government, how would YOU handle the situation?

[Alan]

The €300 is a good idea, but for many Senegalese and other North Africans, they're paying a lot more than that for the crossing in the first place.

The only thing that is going to change the situation is improving Senegal, and I think that Europe should be very active in improving business links with the whole of North Africa. With trade comes prosperity for both Africa and Europe.

[Brian]

The €300 is a good idea, but for many Senegalese and other North Africans, they're paying a lot more than that for the crossing in the first place.

IMO, they're quite lucky to get the 300 Euros, considering that they could have found themselves in jail f

[Brian]

The €300 is a good idea, but for many Senegalese and other North Africans, they're paying a lot more than that for the crossing in the first place.

Considering that they're breaking the law in the first place, I suppose that getting 300 euros for their effort is a pretty good deal.

[Edith]

IMO, they're quite lucky to get the 300 Euros, considering that they could have found themselves in jail f

Jail is probably paradise compared to what they have been through... apart from that, I don't think these people are criminals. Whether it's Africans heading for Spain in pateras or Mexicans and Central Americans trying to cross the desert borderlands in order to reach the United States: it's one and the same thing. These people are economical refugees. How can this problem be solved? Perhaps, sustainable development is the only answer. The culture gap between the US and Mexico is probably less, too.

[Alan]

I think that's a bit harsh Brian. The quality of life we enjoy in Europe (or that you enjoy in the US) is a world away from the people of North Africa yet it's only miles away. I think I would be very tempted to "break the law" if I found myself in that situation. It's easy to judge these people from our comfortable Western homes but I think it's very hard to properly understand what they're going through.


I have some friends who have worked in Kenya, Tanzania and Ethiopia and although it's probably not fair to compare these countries to the countries of North Africa they have come back with some horror stories. These are certainly not places you want to live if you don't have money or power. They are not democracies in the true sense of the word and they are largely lawless. Attitudes towards women leave a lot to be desired and anyone who is not of a local race can expect to be met with mistrust. When people try to leave their countries legally, passports are held without trial and all monies paid kept by Governments. But please note that these comments are made on anecdotal evidence (which I cannot prove :) ).

When faced with persecution, illegal emigration is often the only solution - and costs well over €300.

[Brian]

I think that's a bit harsh Brian. The quality of life we enjoy in Europe (or that you enjoy in the US) is a world away from the people of North Africa yet it's only miles away. I think I would be very tempted to "break the law" if I found myself in that situation. It's easy to judge these people from our comfortable Western homes but I think it's very hard to properly understand what they're going through.

It may come across as a bit callous, but I'll qualify my position by saying that I didn't develop my opinion from my comfortable "North American perch." My family has been mugged, beaten, and robbed at gunpoint by illegals from Africa. Maybe I need to grow a little compassion, and I do realize that most illegals aren't criminals, but from my perspective, it's a matter of security.

[Alan]

It may come across as a bit callous, but I'll qualify my position by saying that I didn't develop my opinion from my comfortable "North American perch." My family has been mugged, beaten, and robbed at gunpoint by illegals from Africa. Maybe I need to grow a little compassion, and I do realize that most illegals aren't criminals, but from my perspective, it's a matter of security.

Of course I see where you're coming from, but remember that by having this opinion, you are tarring every African with the same brush. I have been mugged by white people, or by teenagers, or by 5'9" people, however you want to class them but they were muggers. The majority of muggers are desperate people from any race or colour.

Don't let your bad experiences with these particular criminals affect your opinion of an entire continent.

[Brian]

you are tarring every African with the same brush.

No, I'm not. My prior post noted that most that come from Africa are NOT criminals.

Without a doubt, it's an unfortunate situation, but governments of developed/developing countries cannot support illegals. I don't blame illegals for leaving their home countries, and I am not quite sure what the answer is, but I recognize that it's impossible to expect the government to financially support those who creep across the borders.

[ValenciaSon]

Well there's always going to be some rough spots when some new element enters a system. We all know what happened when the europeans creeped into the western hemisphere, not exactly in a manner that recognized the local laws. Fast forward a few centries and now we want to maintain a selectively permeable membrane because the outsiders should recognize what a hardship it places on the insiders, ironic.

[Edith]

We all know what happened when the europeans creeped into the western hemisphere, not exactly in a manner that recognized the local laws.

How very true! These are your and my ancestors... There is a cartoon somewhere on the Internet which shows two Native Americans on a beach watching the Mayflower approach. Says one Native American to the other one: 'Our immigration laws should have been much stricter' or something to that effect.

[ValenciaSon]

In the USA:

[Edith]

In the USA:

LOL! How very true. :D

Agriculture in states like California would be lost without the influx of immigrants from Mexico and Central America.

In Europe the situation is slightly different because some immigrants are not able to find work that easily. I'm not sure what happens to most of the Africans who end up in Spain every year. I've got the impression that most people who work in the agricultural sector in southern Spain are either from Morocco, Ecuador or from eastern Europe, not from sub-Saharan Africa. Perhaps someone else on this forum can tell us some more about that.

[Ben]

In Madrid the sub-Saharan Africans tend to start by selling pirate cd's, dvd's etc on the street (known as 'top manta'), though I imagine there are a lot working in agriculture in the south as well (though as you say, this work is dominated by Moroccans and South Americans).

[greytop]

In Madrid the sub-Saharan Africans tend to start by selling pirate cd's, dvd's etc on the street (known as 'top manta'), though I imagine there are a lot working in agriculture in the south as well (though as you say, this work is dominated by Moroccans and South Americans).
We get a lot round the Costas as well, also they sell cheap electrical gear, watches and fishing rods etc. I've seen them arriving in cars with boots full of goods so there is some form of organisation in place.
(Remember the nonsense rhyme: "Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite them, little fleas have smaller fleas and so ad indinitum." These guys are the smallest I guess)
There have been problems with totally overloaded Canary Isles sending plane loads to Valencia without proper warning or provision for their care. Many sleep rough under the bridges until the inadequately resourced social welfare departments can get them settled or deported.
The only answer long term is to help them get their own countries in order (and they can then expect an influx of settlers in the other direction no doubt) Progress via G8 aid and debt relief etc. is painfully slow and as the US/UK/UN have proved on many occasions, stepping in physically usually causes more problems than it solves.
The "get a job" approach does not work if you don't have papers unless to be exploited by agriculture or sweat shops. I was in Italy in the mid seventies and they had a similar problem then with guys from Albania and its neighbours, often well educated & qualified, who got daily work picking melons etc. for very little money. They had a camp for them to live in whilst they tried to get another country to offer them permament homes (Canada/USA seemed favourite).
All we can hope is that we never end up so desperate and show some compassion and/or charity.

[Brian]

We get a lot round the Costas as well, also they sell cheap electrical gear, watches and fishing rods etc. I've seen them arriving in cars with boots full of goods so there is some form of organisation in place.

And they point at their wares, saying, "Bueno, bonito, barato."

[greytop]

And they point at their wares, saying, "Bueno, bonito, barato."
Well being right 33% of the time beats the politicians!

[Edith]

Well being right 33% of the time beats the politicians!

:D

[Brian]

The only answer long term is to help them get their own countries in order (and they can then expect an influx of settlers in the other direction no doubt) Progress via G8 aid and debt relief etc. is painfully slow and as the US/UK/UN have proved on many occasions, stepping in physically usually causes more problems than it solves.


I agree wholeheartedly that the answer lies in fixing the problems in their home governments. However, as Alan astutely pointed out, most of those governments are hopelessly corrupt. The subsahariano countries have received a LOT of aid from the US/UK/UN. The problem is that many of these countries are run by corrupt governments that don't allow the aid to reach the people that really need it.

It really is an overwhelming problem, to be sure. People who are way more brilliant than I have failed at solving these issues. But I agree with you-- until change happens in the leadership of these countries, the flood of illegals across their borders will not stop.