Terrorist Theory

[wil129]

Does anyone have any theory or knowledge as to why Spain continues to be targeted by terriorists?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/27/spain.europe.terror.plot/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[richardksa]

This might seem far fetched, but more than once I have been told by my moslem colleagues (for those who are new here, I work in the Middle East) that Spain is still considered a moslem country that is in apostastcy. Meaning that it is worth a jihad to reclaim it for the faithfull.
And having troops in Afganistan doesn't ease the situation.

[parubin]

I think it's just that terrorism of extremist islamic roots threatens the whole of the western wordl.

Not just Spain, but also, France, Italy, Germany, the UK, the US, Australia, the Netherlands... everybody is in their target.

[greytop]

Plus of course the internal threats from ETA seeking independence for the Basque region.

[Dave_K]

This might seem far fetched, but more than once I have been told by my moslem colleagues (for those who are new here, I work in the Middle East) that Spain is still considered a moslem country that is in apostastcy. Meaning that it is worth a jihad to reclaim it for the faithfull.
And having troops in Afganistan doesn't ease the situation.

Would this be akin to Danes and Swedes committing terrorist attacks against England because a millenium ago it was Viking land? That would be bizarre.

[ValenciaSon]

Would this be akin to Danes and Swedes committing terrorist attacks against England because a millenium ago it was Viking land? That would be bizarre.Lets see them try to take over Spain without a gestor:rolleyes:

[richardksa]

Would this be akin to Danes and Swedes committing terrorist attacks against England because a millenium ago it was Viking land? That would be bizarre.
After the Attocha bombings, which brought this point of view to the fore I have heard this many times from my Arab colleagues. The intelligent ones smile, knowing it will never happen, but not everyone is intelligent.

[jonk]

Dave K, it sounds crazy but there's big cultural differences - which doesn't justify their actions, but help us understand it.

I read some Arabic newspapers, books translated into English and their perspective on history is remarkably different. They have a really long memory in many cases. That's why we, the West, have done so poorly in the Middle East, and also partially why the Middle East has such difficulty getting along. Long memories.

In the case of Madrid, Al Qaeda specifically mentioned apostasy as a reason for their attack.

[Edith]

their perspective on history is remarkably different. They have a really long memory in many cases. (...)
In the case of Madrid, Al Qaeda specifically mentioned apostasy as a reason for their attack.

Which is all the more frightening - these extremists are very good at bearing grudges and they also seem to be thriving on hate. It reminds me of the Balkan, where various factions still grieve over wars fought during the early Middle Ages. And how about Northern Ireland?

Under the caliphs, Spain was a multicultural society but the vast majority of Spaniards never converted to Islam - they have always remained Catholics. Most resident Muslims were expelled from Spain in the end, which of course wasn't justified but this leaves little room for any 'apostasy' on the part of the Spaniards.

Apart from that, people should be free to leave one faith and choose another, or to leave religion altogether.

The Jews have also got ample reason to bear grudges towards los reyes católicos but they would never dream of invading Spain or of committing terrorist acts on Spanish territory to make their 'point'. Remember, they were also evicted.

I'm glad you mention this, though. We have memories, too, and history has taught us to be wary of any ideology which advocates world domination and conquest. This is what Al Qaeda wants. During the last century, two psychopaths (Hitler and Stalin) tried to bring Europe to its knees, killing millions in the process. This should make us wary of anyone with Big Plans for the world.

The indigenous peoples, which were conquered by us in the name of God or Manifest Destiny, also know what domination by force is like. Rigoberta Menchú, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate from Guatemala, deplores the Spanish conquest but she does not hate the Spanish people for it. Nor does the Dalai Lama hate the Chinese, even though he has sound reasons for doing so.

People like Osama Bin Laden, on the other hand, are wallowing in self-pity and they use history as a tool to justify their actions.
That man is so rich he could provide all the Palestinians and other poor Arab countries (like Yemen) with hospitals and schools, but he chooses violence instead. Let's not forget that Al Qaeda's actions have also resulted in the deaths of many Muslims. They don't give a toss about who dies, and I bet they hate moderate Muslims more than anything else.

I don't want to downplay ETA's atrocities but I believe Al Qaeda is infinitely more dangerous to Spain, and to the West as a whole. At some point they might also be capable of attacking any religion which doesn't suit their own world view, such as Hinduism or Buddhism (remember the destruction of the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan?).

OK, this is a can of worms. I don't want to sound alarmist but I really believe Spain should be more concerned about Al Qaeda than about ETA. A couple of weeks ago the Guardia Civil arrested a couple of Al Qaeda suspects in Barcelona who were planning another big attack on Spain. But the Basque issue somehow seems to offend people more. Perhaps because Basque terrorism is home-grown?

[Juanjo]

[quote=Edith;41776]
Under the caliphs, Spain was a multicultural society but the vast majority of Spaniards never converted to Islam - they have always remained Catholics.

Not quite true (this area is one of my particular research interests).

Modern scholarship suggest that by the year 1000, 75% of the inhabitants of al-Andalus had converted to Islam (mainly to escape taxation!) and the conversion rate remained fairly flat after that until the Reconquista.

Even after territory had been increasingly recaptured by los Reyes Católicos, Muslim (mudejar) communities were able to continue there freedom of worship.

This continued right up until the 1492 when, as part of the surrender of Granada, Ferdinand and Isabella agreed that there would be no forced conversion of Muslims to Christianity and that they could continue to be governed by Shari'a law.

Of course, a year or so later. the Catholic Kings reneged this agreement (the Capitulations), started the Inquisitions and eventually expelled Moors and Jews from Spain.

Further, the current boastful wishes of Al Quaeda's leaders to "restore" the Caliphate of al-Andalus ignores the fact the the actual caliphate of Córdoba was opposed by the caliphate of Baghdad, and thus they not able to be "restored" as such- it would be a new conquest.

Juanjo

[jonk]

Two great posts right there, thanks for taking the time to post that up Edith, and Juanjo

[Edith]

Modern scholarship suggest that by the year 1000, 75% of the inhabitants of al-Andalus had converted to Islam (mainly to escape taxation!) and the conversion rate remained fairly flat after that until the Reconquista.

I'd love to know more about this, are there any books or websites you'd like to recommend?

[Juanjo]

I'd love to know more about this, are there any books or websites you'd like to recommend?


Some of the main books (in English) are:

Moorish Spain by Richard Fletcher (1992)
isbn 0 297 81241 6

Islamic Spain 1250-1500 by L.P.Harvey (1992)
isbn 0-226-31962-8

From Muslim fortress to Christian castle by Thomas F. Glick (1995) isbn 0-7190-3349-7

I also recommend for more general reading:

The Alhambra by Robert Irwin (2004)
isbn 1-86197-410-4

La vida cotidiana en La España Musulmana by Fernando Díaz-Plaza (1993)
isbn 84-7640-729-7

Granada de los Nazaríes by Antonio Gala (1994)
isbn 84-08-01185-5

Córdoba de los Omeyas by Antonio Muñoz Molina (2002)
isbn 84-08-04055-3

[Juan Goytisolo also has a good book called "Andaluces" or something similar- I need to check my library.]


Juanjo

[Edith]

Thanks Juanjo! :thumbs-up:

[Edith]

Córdoba de los Omeyas by Antonio Muñoz Molina

Ah, now I understand where Omeyas' nick comes from! :)

[Juanjo]

Thanks Juanjo! :thumbs-up:


¡De na'a!

I also recommend viewing the BBC4 programme "Art in Spain" that concentrated on Moorish Spain this week. Although those of who study al-Andalus might be a bit pedantic about the detail of some of the programme's historical "facts", overall it is excellent with outstanding photography and has some interesting insights.

You can view it be accessing the BBC IPlayer website, downloading the software and the programme free (if you do not have broadband it can take some time to download the 600MB of the video- the software download is quick.).

Well worth watching as it concentrates on the relationship of Moors, Christians and the effect on architecture and art- very instructive.

Juanjo

[Edith]

You can view it be accessing the BBC IPlayer website, downloading the software and the programme free (if you do not have broadband it can take some time to download the 600MB of the video- the software download is quick.).

I'm afraid this is only for viewers in the UK, but guess what - I have got BBC 4 and there is a rerun of Episode # 1 next Wednesday!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/week/printable.shtml

The next episode will be shown on Thursday.

Thanks again for the tip! :thumbs-up:

[josie.bland]

I am researching how the painting Guernica by Picasso has been used recently as a political poster. Does anyone have experience of the Atocha bombings and were they aware of Guernica being held aloft in the subsequent demonstrations - please contact me via Private Message

[una maruja]

We were in the march after the train bombings and my husband has been on most of the anti ETA marches. Neither of us can remember any image of the painting being used, and nor do I remember seeing anything to do with it on the news afterwards. In fact it is not something I would have thought about being used in this connection.
Pam

[Edith]

Would this be akin to Danes and Swedes committing terrorist attacks against England because a millenium ago it was Viking land? That would be bizarre.

Spot-on. IMO they are locos de remate. I understand what they are saying, but I totally reject it.