Aún si, Aunque, y Aún asi.

[DocMolly]

I've heard and made these mistakes many times, and so I thought I'd post them here.

Aun sí:
Even if I were to have seen him, I would not have said "Hi."
WRONG:
Aun si lo hubiera visto, no lo habría saludado.
RIGHT:
Aunque lo hubiera visto, no lo habría saludado.

When to use the subjunctive with aunque:
It uses the subjunctive when you want to say "even if," But when when you just want to say "although," you usually use the indicative. Examples:

Aunque soy joven, entiendo a los ancianos a quienes cuido.
Although I'm young, I understand the elderly I care for.

Aunque fueras de mi edad, no saldría contigo.
Even if you were my age, I would not go out out with you.

Aun asi:
This is like "even so."
I studied very hard, even so, I did not pass the exam.
Estudié mucho, aun asi, no aprobé el examen.

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I MADE ANY MISTAKES.

[Berti]

I've heard and made these mistakes many times, and so I thought I'd post them here.

When to use the subjunctive with aunque:
It uses the subjunctive when you want to say "even if," But when when you just want to say "although," you usually use the indicative. Examples:




That is a very good working tip for this grammar point, which I also had to take some time to understand . But I still make a pause when constructing it verbally and the reason is simply that in my original study book the grammar point posted by Doc Molly was not stressed enough.


In fact I remember a book which used examples of “although “with the subjunctive, when in fact the example referred to “even though “. Because of that (in my opinion poor explanation) I also struggled for some time over this point.

So to add to the previous post I have a rule that when using “aunque” in the form of “even if “or “even though “i.e:

when something expected is in fact denied or contradicted. Or an action has yet to occur or is not known to be occurring use subjunctive. The use of “even though” with subjunctive or indicative is for me the tricky part as examples of both exist.( see e.gs. below of paella eater and beach going people)

Egs:

Aunque llueva mucho vamos a la playa.

Even if it rains we are going to the beach.
(e.g. of action yet unknown i.e. will it be raining when we go to the beach?,/ subjunctive)

Aunque llueve, vamos a la playa.

Even though it’s raining, we are going to the beach.
(eg of action actually occurring now it’s raining now : indicative.)

Aunque sea español no me gusta la paella.

Even though I am Spanish I don’t like paella.
(e.g. of something expected but is denied/ contradicted: subjunctive)

No lo confesaría aunque le mataran/ matasen.

He wouldn’t confess even if they killed him.
( e.g. of action not yet having occurred i.e. they have still to kill him. : subjunctive)

Aunque su madre cocine, no me quedaré

Even if your mother cooks, I won’t stay.
(e.g. of action yet to occur, we do not yet know if mother is going to cook : subjunctive)

Aunque yo sepa la repuesta, no te la diré

Even if I know the answer, I won’t tell you.
( e.g. of action yet to occur, we do not yet know what the question is : subjunctive )

Dijo que no saldría con José, aunque la invitara/invitase

She said she would not go out with José even if he invited her.
(eg of action yet to occur José has still to pop the question: subjunctive )

Aunque sea difícil, voy a aprender el subjunctivo

Even if it is/ Even though it is difficult, I am going to learn the subjunctive
(e.g. of action not known to be occurring : the speaker may already be studying the subjunctive, but it is not clear : subjunctive.


En fin! Doc Molly’s advice using « even if « is a very good pointer, which I also use and I hope my own note adds some clarity to those who have an interest in this tricky grammar point.

[Berti]

Even if it is/ Even though it is difficult, I am going to learn the subjunctive
(e.g. of action not known to be occurring : the speaker may already be studying the subjunctive, but it is not clear : subjunctive.

I should have indicated that in the last example quoted above, there is also doubt as to the level of difficulty (to learn ) perceived for the speaker, which in turn is another trigger for subjunctive use.

Gotta love the subjunctive.:p

[Petrichor]

Firstly, I don't know the difference between 'although' and 'even though'. Can anyone explain?

Aunque sea español no me gusta la paella.
Even though I am Spanish I don’t like paella.
(e.g. of something expected but is denied/ contradicted: subjunctive)
Would it be wrong to say "Aunque soy español no me gusta la paella."

Aunque su madre cocine, no me quedaré.
Is this any different than saying "Aunque su madre cocinara no me quedaría"

Aunque yo sepa la repuesta, no te la diré.
Similarly, "Aunque yo supiera la respuesta, no te la diría."


Clarifications from experts will be greatly appreciated.

[yunouguaramin]

I've heard and made these mistakes many times, and so I thought I'd post them here.

Aun sí:
Even if I were to have seen him, I would not have said "Hi."
WRONG:
Aun si lo hubiera visto, no lo habría saludado.
RIGHT:
Aunque lo hubiera visto, no lo habría saludado.


I don’t know if this is grammatically not correct but you can hear it a lot by here.
If on the phrase you put you say 'aun si' instead of 'aunque' no one will look at you like saying ‘is wrong’.
But in another phrase like 'aunque me duela', the use of 'aun si' is totally wrong.
I'm afraid I only add a bit more of confusion... well, I would say that
'aunque' is ALWAYS fine, but 'aun si' is not.


Aunque sea español no me gusta la paella.
Aunque soy español no me gusta la paella.



There's no need of subjunctive here, any, but I would say in this kind of phrases ‘sea’ is far more popular than ‘soy’. I don’t know even if the subjunctive here is grammatically correct, but most people here would say ‘aunque sea …’ . I think there’s a rule not written in the books, ‘No pinta nada el subjuntivo aquí, pero suena mejor y no desvirtúa el sentido de la frase, asi que..”
And I don’t know why, but in most cases the subjunctive ‘sounds better’.


a - Aunque su madre cocine no me quedaré.
b - Aunque su madre cocinara no me quedaría.



Un intento de explicación intuitiva, no académica; a mi también me gustaría ver la explicación gramatical.

La diferencia entre ambas es vaga y son intercambiables en ocasiones, y dependiendo de la zona también cambian los usos de estos tiempos verbales.

Aunque las dos expresan una incertidumbre, si la madre va a cocinar o no, la frase A denota solo un interrogante de distancia, decimos ‘aunque su madre cocine’ picando al timbre de casa de ‘su madre’.
La frase B requiere mas de un interrogante de distancia, por ejemplo estamos planificando un viaje para dentro de unas semanas y ‘casa de su madre’ es una entre varias posibilidades; si en este caso decimos ‘aunque su madre cocine’, da a entender que YA está decidido viajar a casa de su madre.

----
Interrogante -> cuestión dudosa, problema no aclarado.

[tad]

Not only didn't I know any of this, I didn't know that I didn't know it.

[Petrichor]

Thanks for the explanation, yunouguaramin. I think I have understood.:)

[yunouguaramin]

Not only didn't I know any of this, I didn't know that I didn't know it.

No sabía que no sabías nada de esto.
No sabía que no supieras nada de esto.

Las dos frases significan exactamente lo mismo, pero seguramente tú escogerías una y yo la otra.
----

Ultimamente ma ha dado por fijarme en como las mamás y los papás hablan a sus bebés que están aprendiendo a hablar y como los bebés contestan.
La mamá no dice 'nene coger babero del suelo y dar a mamá', sino 'coge el babero del suelo y dámelo' o '...que cojas el babero del suelo y me lo des'.
Hay muchas correcciones como 'no es ponido, es puesto jiji jaja', pero aun no he visto una corrección 'interesante', solo obviedades.
'Lo cogen todo al vuelo', se dice de los niños.

Petrichor, otro intento de explicación.
'aunque tu madre cocine' indica una incertidumbre.
'aunque tu madre cocinara' indica una incertidumbre que a su vez depende de otra incertidumbre.

[DocMolly]

Wow!!! How great to come back and see a that people have expanded on this topic! Thanks for explaining it further!!