Be my Green Michelin guide.

[DUH CAR]

There is a new Michelin guide coming out shortly for Spain and we usually use that as the basis for planning what towns to see in a European country that we haven't been to before (three stars = a must see, etc.)

So, in absence of that, could I ask the forumites what their three star places are and why.

We will be in Spain for the first for three weeks in October and have a car.:confused:

Thanks in advance, John from Toronto.

[Ben]

The best of the best? I'll start the ball rolling with my Andalusian favourites: Granada (the Alhambra and the Albaicin quarter), Cordoba (Mezquita), Costa de la Luz (wild beaches)... which parts of Spain do you want to concentrate on?

[disco]

Throw out your guide book and get blogging. I recommend Castillia La Mancha. The whole region is beautiful. Cuenca, Lagunas de Ruidera, Albacete and many more.

[Ben]

Cuenca definitely, but not sure about Albacete. The Spanish say 'Albacete, caga y vete' ('Albacete, have a shit and get out of there!'). You'll have to convince me why it's worth a visit!

[DUH CAR]

... which parts of Spain do you want to concentrate on?

Well, I don't know what to concentrate on, that's my problem. That's why I like the Michelin Guide. If there are ten three-starred towns in the south and two in the north, then I'll be planning to spend most of my time in the south.
I'm also hoping that posters recommend their favourite places and maybe some commonality in their choices will help me too.

One thought would be to set up "base camp" in one town for 4/5 days and fan out from there to explore the surroundings. We have done that in Italy for Tuscany (San Gimignano) and in Portugal (Algarve) and it's worked out quite well.

We have three weeks, so maybe the Basque area, then the south, the west and then finally Madrid as we fly out of there again?

[DUH CAR]

Throw out your guide book and get blogging.

Why do you say blogging? Blogging is more inefficient -- forums rule!!
With forums you are posting in a place of like-minded people that provide answers. Also blogging is becoming ore popular, but people are more used to forums.

[disco]

Cuenca definitely, but not sure about Albacete. The Spanish say 'Albacete, caga y vete' ('Albacete, have a shit and get out of there!'). You'll have to convince me why it's worth a visit!

"Qué pasa en Albacete? Que cada uno fuma de su paquete" is more appropriate.

Castillo de Alcaraz, a 13th-century fortress, Plaza de Toros de Albacete, La Feria de Albacete is only second to the one in Sevilla, the knives, the fresh bread in Albacete is the best anywhere on PLANET EARTH.

Pack your bags and get on your donkey.

[disco]

Why do you say blogging? Blogging is more inefficient -- forums rule!!
With forums you are posting in a place of like-minded people that provide answers. Also blogging is becoming ore popular, but people are more used to forums.

:D
It is not either or, I prefer a combination since you will get a better result out the two. Take this excellent pages for example. The blog part informs as well as the forum.

I still love Albacete and the surrounding areas, maybe because it is still real old SPAIN with its rich culture and traditions. Of course, you should stop in Toledo the capital of Castilla La Mancha.:D

[DUH CAR]

I Googled Cuenca and it looks great. I'll add it to my "possibles" list. Toledo is already on it.

[DUH CAR]

I checked on the weekend and the new 2006 edition for Spain had just come in and they only had one so I bought it immediately!

Looks like there are four main areas where there are a number of Highly Recommended places. I'm sure people will have their favs not on the list but this is what I have come up with, along with some must see towns nearby:

1) Madrid - El Escorial, Segovia, Salamanca, Toledo, Caceres
2) Barcelona - Santes Creus, Poblet, Sant Pere de Rodes
3) Costa Verde - Santiago de Compostela, Oviedo
4) South - Cordoba, Granada, Sevilla

So does it sound feasible to spend 4-6 days for each area and pick a small town to set out from each day to explore?

If so, any suggestions on towns for each of these areas where we could stay in a moderately priced place that we could come back to each evening? Any hidden gems that Rick Steeves doesn't know about yet ;)

[Ben]

My immediate reaction is that Cacares and Salamanca are both a long way from Madrid, about 2 plus hours each, and not all that close to each other either... Maybe you could do Salamanca on the way to Santiago de Compostella? I would base myself in Madrid for Madrid visits and Toledo (go by train for a day), then drive to Segovia via El Escorial and sleep in Segovia... Hmmm, tricky... any more thoughts anyone?!

[DUH CAR]

Thanks Ben. I'll take a look at what you suggest. I don't mind driving 1+ hours to get to a place but 2+ is a bit much. Maybe do Madrd and as much as possible by train first, then rent a car and set off from there.

[angeliufus]

All I can say is that the charm of Spain is not in the travel guides. Is in the small medieval towns where Spanish weekenders go to escape the bustle of the main cities. They have second residences, they go for lunch at restaurants that are really hidden gems,etc

I can recommend a few
in Castilla: Pedraza, Ubeda, Jarandilla de la vera
In Catalunya: Pals, Peratallada, Monells, Besalu, Palau-Sator, Calella de Palafrugell

For more info you can check my website: www.gowherespanishgo.com (http://www.gowherespanishgo.com)

Also I would recommend to check the local festivals during the time you are going to be there, participate in one if you can.

Since Spain is a country of contrasts (weather/people/food/art/architecture-wise)If you have some time I would visit 2or 3 ot these very different regions:
e.g.: Catalunya/Andalucia/Castilla/Basque country/Extremadura/Galicia

I hope you have a great time, October is a perfect time to visit Spain, mild weather, uncrowded and you can even still go to the beach in Andalucia if you wish.;)

[DUH CAR]

All I can say is that the charm of Spain is not in the travel guides. Is in the small medieval towns where Spanish weekenders go to escape the bustle of the main cities. They have second residences, they go for lunch at restaurants that are really hidden gems,etc

I agree wholeheartedly! My problem is that I have never been to Spain -- I have to start somewhere. Right now, places are just a dot on a map to me. A travel guide describes each place.

I am hoping that this forum and an ongoing dialogue with all will provide me with these hidden gems. So thank you for those names!!

[angeliufus]

I know you need the travel guide, trust me,I have been in 23 countries in the last 3 years and never without the Lonely Planet of that country.
I just wanted to plant the seed in your mind, to go and explore out of the guide book.
Spain is one of the few places, where the average tourist miss the best part. Spain has one of the world's greatest number of cultural heritage sites by UNESCO and sadly 80% remains unvisited.
It is maybe our way to keep these places for ourselves!;)

[Ben]

Another gem in Castilla, just beyond Pedraza mentioned above, is Sepulveda - especially if you like roast lamb! They have the best in the world up there...

[Ben]

And in Andalucia don't miss the Alhambra Palace in Granada and Cordoba's Mezquita; obvious, but needs to be said! Go to the Mezquita before 10 at a weekend, nearer 9 a.m. even better, and it's almost empty and free of charge.

[John]

John,

If this is your first trip to spain there is alot to see in 3 weeks - if you told us more about what you liked you might get more specific advice.

Spain is a very exciting country to visit and there is alot on offer.There are alot of places of historic and cultural interest as well as beautiful landscapes and architecture. You can't see them all - but here are some tips from me

When travelling about with a car i try to stay in the paradores (www.parador.es) if i can afford it. there are usually deals on - sign up as an amigo (free) and join their points programme (points turn into free stays)- you also get a free drink on check-in and free parking (which usually costs around €15 per night) They do a 5 night card at €85 per night - restrictions apply (at the minute there is a €60 deal april - june for amigos) (sign up as an amigo and you can see more deals online)

i really like Carmona (14th century arab fortress) between sevilla (30 mins) and cordoba (60 mins) with pool in small town there are ones in the other places mentioned in this thread .... but historic castles or 15th century convents as your hotel can make you stay more memorable - also check out how much to upgrade a room - with balcony (can be as little as €10) (or 4 poster bed €30)

Check out the website for their photos - you'll find some you like -
as for areas in spain - i love andalucia - beautiful beaches cadiz/costa de la luz - good walks - national parks - the moorish architecture leaves you speechless.

i love extremadura (raugged, raw and underpopulated)which is a great place to see eagles in Monfragüe National Park between Plasencia & Trujillo - Merida has great roman ruins and the monastery in Guadalupe is awesome ....also has castles built by the knights templar - although the towns here can be quiet (this is all quite off the beaten track)

The basque country is very green and quite like Ireland, San Sebastian is a very attractive city ...

toledo salamanca granada bilbao córdoba santiago ....

you know there is so much good stuff to see - you should just work out a route and travel about. I have friends who live on the french border and i enjoy the drive across spain so much stopping off en route to explore new places. Driving outside the cities is very pleasant - most roads are not too busy - although driving through old cities can be scary (v narrow streets) (park your car in seville - i usually park in car park under the gardens next to the alcazar you can walk to most places from there - other wise you get stuck in narrow one way systems and cant get out)

madrid and barcelona are great cities - but you cant fit all this in ....just remember it will be warmer in the south and wetter in the north - you might appreciate the end of summer sunshine ...

where ever you go im sure you will have a great time ....

[outpostbabu]

Somewhat off-topic but I think it's interesting that Ben says a two hour drive from Madrid is a long way. To me a two hour drive is really close for a major attraction or to see family. But then, the US is huge compared to many countries. Are there differences in the perception of time and distance in different countries? Whats a long drive? Also, with the superior rail system of Spain, I would look forward to such a journey.

[angeliufus]

After living in Texas, I must admit we are just spoiled rotten in Spain. Road network in Spain is great and there is good public transport,train,buses to and from almost anywhere.
Concept of driving time is also very different in Europe. In 2 hours drive from Barcelona( where I am from) you are in France, so yes for us it is a long drive... In the US or Australia you drive 2 hours just to go to the next town if you are lucky. In Houston you need at least 2 to get out of the city limits...:eek:

[Ben]

For me 2 hours would be a pain for a day trip but fine for a night. 4 hours would warrant a weekend and 6 hours at least 3 days. Maybe its just that I hate car travel these days as we have had several bad weekend traffic jam experiences ouutside Madrid. The train is another matter though, I love train travel in Spain. The best time for diriving however, is definitely outside the weekend rush.

By the way, I would second the suggestion of the Parador de Carmona. Make sure you go to the Caromona museum cafe - amazing tapas, just order anything involving ham!

[DUH CAR]

If this is your first trip to spain there is alot to see in 3 weeks - if you told us more about what you liked you might get more specific advice.

When travelling about with a car i try to stay in the paradores if i can afford it. ....

Let me address paradores first. We stayed in one in Portugal and I don't feel the extra money is worth it. I'd rather stay in a family run place in a town.

As for what we like: Good food and wine are very important (www.chowhound.com (http://www.chowhound.com)). Also scenic vistas, walled towns, seeing people going about their daily life, market days -- all are interesting. You contrast your own life with theirs. Cathedrals and museums are fine in moderation, but after you have seen alot of them on a trip they start to get tiresome. Nature and parks are farther down the list as they are readily available here in Canada, and not alot of difference as opposed to some of the previous things. I guess it is the contrasts that I like. We like the ocean and coasts, but won't go out of our way for the costas in Spain this trip. If we are nearby, we'll visit. We like the Carribbean ones.

Thanks for all your tips -- I'm saving them.

Interesting discussion about driving times. In Toronto, a work commute of an hour is pretty common. I work at home so I'm not affected. I like driving, so two hours is fine for me.

Places that we've liked in Europe in recent years: Bath, Wales, Sienna, San Gimignano, Bellagio and the Lake Como towns, Positano and Ravello, Mykonos, Santorini.

John in Toronto

[DUH CAR]

just order anything involving ham!

Gee, after listening to the Podcasts, I get a feeling that you are mad about ham. You must be starting to grow a little curly tail!!

[Ben]

It's only a matter of time ;)

[ValenciaSon]

What exactly is a Parador?

[angeliufus]

Paradors were established by the Spanish government during the Franco dictatorship era. Some say is one of the few good things he did for Spain;) ...Many of the eighty-five Paradores in Spain are in converted Moorish fortresses, medieval castles, convents and monasteries, old palaces and manor houses, some are in more modern buildings in desirable and convenient locations. Spanish people often celebrate weddings or business lunches and meetings in them. They normally offer very good traditional Spanish cuisine and service is good but in the old fashion way ...e.g.:Waiters are usually a bit older and lacking English or other languages.
Regarding previous postings, paradors in Spain have nothing to do with Pousadas in Portugal, price or quality wise.
Personally I regard them as an excellent option for accommodation in heritage buildings for a reasonable price.

[timg]

We've stayed in a few paradors. With the exception of Salamanca, they have been great experiences. The one in La Gomera (Canary Islands) is a relatively new building, but built in the colonial style, and you really wouldn't know that it was modern.
*However* - the one in Salamanca is a 70's concrete monstrosity (okay that's probably a bit strong, but it seems just like any other 70's hotel and the rooms looked distinctly tired a couple of years ago). Let's hope it has (or has had) a refit, because as I say the paradors generally are excellent.