Apes get legal rights in Spain, to surprise of bullfight critics

[Legazpi]

Read all about it here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4220884.ece

The point is made in the article that this seems like a rather pointless piece of legislation since there aren't any apes in Spain apart from “the ones that could cross over from Gibraltar”, and the government have more pressing matters regarding the problems the Spanish farmers and fishermen are facing.

[gary]

The point is made in the article that this seems like a rather pointless piece of legislation since there aren't any apes in Spain .....

Snowflake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floquet_de_Neu)in BCN might take issue with this :)

[Legazpi]

Snowflake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floquet_de_Neu)in BCN might take issue with this :)

The article goes on to talk about the 350 apes living in zoos in Spain - apparently they will get better conditions.

[Juanjo]

Read all about it here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4220884.ece

The point is made in the article that this seems like a rather pointless piece of legislation since there aren't any apes in Spain apart from “the ones that could cross over from Gibraltar”, and the government have more pressing matters regarding the problems the Spanish farmers and fishermen are facing.

(pedant mode on) Gibraltar's "Barbary apes"- Macaca sylvanus- are actually monkeys, not apes. (pedant mode off)

[Pepino]

Snowflake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floquet_de_Neu)in BCN might take issue with this :)

What, from beyond the grave? ;D

Never mind rights for apes. What about rights for dead apes! ;)

[gary]

What, from beyond the grave? ;D

Never mind rights for apes. What about rights for dead apes! ;)

My condolences, I had no news of the bereavement...

I admit that Snowflake is unlikely to contact us from beyond the grave seeing as Doris Stokes hasnt been bothered ;D

[Juanjo]

My condolences, I had no news of the bereavement...

I admit that Snowflake is unlikely to contact us from beyond the grave seeing as Doris Stokes hasnt been bothered ;D

Mmm..... as Doris Stokes died in 1987, does that mean you are in touch with her, Gary?:eek:;D;D

[gary]

My condolences, I had no news of the bereavement...

I admit that Snowflake is unlikely to contact us from beyond the grave seeing as Doris Stokes hasnt been bothered ;D

Mmm..... as Doris Stokes died in 1987, does that mean you are in touch with her, Gary?:eek:;D;D


No - no one is as far as I know, thats the irony, the professional meduium that made her living purporting to be in touch with the other side has never bothered to go for a "see-I-told-you-its-not-all-tosh" appearance and sort the argument once and for all

[Juanjo]

Mmm..... as Doris Stokes died in 1987, does that mean you are in touch with her, Gary?:eek:;D;D


No - no one is as far as I know, thats the irony, the professional meduium that made her living purporting to be in touch with the other side has never bothered to go for a "see-I-told-you-its-not-all-tosh" appearance and sort the argument once and for all[/quote]


Perhaps she was a less-than-medium-medium?;)

[gary]

Perhaps she was a less-than-medium-medium?;)

No she was definitely size 18 or over;D;D

Anyway - time to get back on topic....

[ValenciaSon]

No she was definitely size 18 or over;D;D

Anyway - time to get back on topic....What was the topic, clairvoyant apes?

[rod]

Anyway - time to get back on topic....


It's difficult to be on topic with this story. Firstly, it's hardly been a hot issue in Spain - I try to skim across El Pais, El Mundo and 20 Minutos websites every day and I must admit that I didn't even notice it. Secondly, that has to be the most gratuitous mention of bullfighting in a headline I've seen. You have to read right down to the sixth para to even find the one sentence that mentions bullfighting - and that sentence is some unidentified, unsourced critics making a point that doesn't at first sight appear to make sense: surely it would be better to confer rights to apes and then arguing for extending those rights to bulls. What the UK broadsheets think is newsworthy about Spain is sometimes bizarre.:confused:

[gary]

It's difficult to be on topic with this story. Firstly, it's hardly been a hot issue in Spain - I try to skim across El Pais, El Mundo and 20 Minutos websites every day and I must admit that I didn't even notice it. Secondly, that has to be the most gratuitous mention of bullfighting in a headline I've seen. You have to read right down to the sixth para to even find the one sentence that mentions bullfighting - and that sentence is some unidentified, unsourced critics making a point that doesn't at first sight appear to make sense: surely it would be better to confer rights to apes and then arguing for extending those rights to bulls. What the UK broadsheets think is newsworthy about Spain is sometimes bizarre.:confused:

... when they're short of advertising I guess they need the column inches...

[Edith]

Here is more on the new legislation:


http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/06/27/spain-to-grant-some-human-rights-to-apes/

Until quite recently, chimpanzees were used to perform for tourists in Spanish seaside resorts, but I think this has stopped now as a result of rescue efforts by animal welfare organizations.

The article raises some interesting points, e.g. on the intelligence of apes and their evolutionary closeness to humans. Because of their intelligence, primates are often harmed by solitary confinement because this amounts to psychological torture. But this is also true for other intelligent mammals such as dolphins.

Mammals in general are capable of feeling pain, anguish and stress just like humans, and therefore I think the European Union should take action to set legal standards for the living conditions of farm animals, and to help abolish blood sports and other national traditions which involve animal cruelty. If Brussels can dictate the shape of our bananas, why can't they do something useful for a change?

The idea of granting rights to animals may sound far-fetched to some, and our traditional world view (culture) has got a lot to do with it:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13075

According to this world view, any notion of kinship between humans and animals is perceived as a threat to our moral order.

Buddhists have got very different ideas about animals, and so do evolutionary biologists, anthropologists and experts in animal behavior. I hope they will win out in the end, not only in Spain but elsewhere as well.