How do you feel about ex-pat Costa Brits?

[Ben]

A radio feature (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today5_abroad_20060803.ram) on the BBC's Today, about ex-pats on the Costa del Sol, was summed up quite nicely in another post (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584) on this forum:

The radio clip from Fuengirola I just found horrific. The English guy who spoke Spanish in a kind of p1ss taking way is the archetypal Brit living abroad who I try to avoid at all costs. I know they bring a lot to the economy down there but what a nauseating bunch they sounded.
Listen to the radio clip (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today5_abroad_20060803.ram) (you need Real Player I'm afraid) and let us know what you think.

Personally I agree to an extent - the architypal Costa del Sol Retiree is just interested in taking Britain abroad and makes no effort to even learn Spanish (there are many exceptions of course) - but can we condemn them for this? Spain is happy to have them, they keep themselves to themselves, and you will never bump into this lot in a bar in Madrid!

What do you think?

[Brian]

A radio feature (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today5_abroad_20060803.ram) on the BBC's Today, about ex-pats on the Costa del Sol, was summed up quite nicely in another post (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584) on this forum:


Listen to the radio clip (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today5_abroad_20060803.ram) (you need Real Player I'm afraid) and let us know what you think.

Personally I agree to an extent - the architypal Costa del Sol Retiree is just interested in taking Britain abroad and makes no effort to even learn Spanish (there are many exceptions of course) - but can we condemn them for this? Spain is happy to have them, they keep themselves to themselves, and you will never bump into this lot in a bar in Madrid!

What do you think?

It is a crime for the one ex-pat to have such terrible Spanish after 6 years in the country, and a shame to be such separatists.

Round 'em all up and deport 'em if they don't register! ;D j/k

[Marbella]

The radio feature was prompted by this story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5237236.stm)out today on the BBC.

I knew someone who spent a year living in semi-retirement in Torremolinos which is 7km from Málaga. Meeting them just before they went back to the UK I asked what they thought of Andalucia. Had they enjoyed Málaga or Granada? Did they make the trip to Córdoba or Sevilla? Had they learnt lots of Spanish? ¨"No, none of that", they replied, "...but we did go a few times to the theme park in Benalmadena".

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

[greytop]

I think the radio item showed quite well the difficulty faced by UK expats living mainly in urbanisations in parts of Spain and they picked some prime examples!
They don't learn Spanish because they mix mainly with their own countrymen. They prefer UK style restaurants, bars, newspapers.
They don't understand the Spanish rules and laws as they rely on hearsay and (often ill-informed) estate agents. The lady who talked about registration with the UK consulate and the ayuntiamento seemed to think they were the same thing & somehow involved double taxation. The former is advisable if you may need help from the UK authorities via the consul. The latter is a requirement if you own/rent a property in a town, want to register with the health authority, use municipal facilities or vote and it does allow the council to claim the correct allowances from central government. There are other requirements if you spend more than half a year here such as registration for personal income tax which many expats tend to ignore.
There are rules about registering or changing driving licences to Spanish, registering British cars used mostly in Spain, again often ignored and not just by Brits.
Having said all that, yes it is embarrasing to see the antics of many - shopping in beach attire, drunk, abusive to Spanish shop assistants or office staff. I suspect they behave much the same way "at home" though so it is more a lack of education and social skills than not liking the Spanish.
It is also noticeable amongst other nationalities - many social activities are arranged as groups of Germans, Swiss, Norwegians etc.
Maybe we have to accept that people will always feel safer surrounded by things they know and understand whilst being prepared to take what they want from wherever they happen to live.
I found much of the Costa del Sol unbearable but that is a personal choice - it meets others' requirements. Parts of all the Costas invoke a similar feeling but move a few kilometres away and it is a different Spain. The blight is spreading though, as property prices increase along the coastal strips - about double in the last 5 years in the popular parts.

[missmarymackmackmack]

I have a health economists take and a personal take.
As an economist:
1) because most of the Northern European ex-pats do not register their healthcare portability forms as they should and 2) Spanish hospital front-line administration is... well... not motivated(?) to file the paperwork that they do get. Ex-pats are a terrible drain on the health care system.

If I was a Spanish tax-payer (and I may be…I don’t know yet) I would be pissed that foreigners got old and sick on my dime. It's irresponsible for ex-pats to not fill out the silly form and have their hosting country be compensated for their medical care. Additionally, since ex-pats don't learn the language hospitals have to pay for translators (something that the US doesn't do very well).

The problem shows the worst of the ex-pats and the best of Spanish health care. Spain will shoulder the burden so that sick people get treated and these ex-pats won't even fill out the form to compensate them for it.

My personal take is from a naïve place as I have not been personal witness to the retirees in Costa Brava. But, I had a prolonged exposure on a tour of Morocco. (Brit retirees on tour in Morocco wanted nothing to do with Morocco.) And I have a series of non-concrete impressions gathered from just being around. As a Californian who grew up in a beach town I can tell you that there is nothing worse than having to live amongst the non-native retirees. And I mean non-Californian, but from other US states. They are rude, can't drive at all and don't quite get the culture. And I think that our non-native retirees (we can go ahead and call them 'Zoners) are much better guests than the ones here.

I recently asked a Catalan friend how she felt about the retirees coming to Costa Brava. Her response surprised me. She flat out said that she liked having them here because they were quiet and respectful and helped the economy by buying houses, etc. She contrasted this to the younger visitors who come to get drunk cheaply.

Spain is a wonderfully hospitable place and shame on any group who doesn’t receive that hospitality with a little bit of gratitude by showing some respect.

[Alan]

And these are the same people who complain about Asians moving to the UK and not learning English. Not that I agree with that either, but at least I'm not a hypocrite about it. If anyone moves to another country, they should try to fit in. It's only manners.

[Edith]

And these are the same people who complain about Asians moving to the UK and not learning English. Not that I agree with that either, but at least I'm not a hypocrite about it. If anyone moves to another country, they should try to fit in. It's only manners.

I agree wholeheartedly. :) BTW, it's not only the British, it's the Germans and the Dutch as well.

On the other hand, we shouldn't forget that many expats are pensionados, elderly people who didn't know any Spanish before moving to Spain. The older you get, the more difficult it becomes to learn another language and this means most of them will probably never become truly fluent in Spanish no matter how hard they try. Of course, this shouldn't be an excuse for not giving it a try at all! :rolleyes:

[Alan]

Well, yeah, note that I did say try :) EVERYONE should try. Without exception.

[Alan]

I just listened to that wee clip. The British enclave sounds like hell to me. And that guy should have just said that, no, he didn't speak Spanish. I would respect him more.

[Edith]

Well, yeah, note that I did say try :) EVERYONE should try. Without exception.

Absolutely! That man's Spanish was quite atrocious, even George W. Bush speaks better Spanish. ;D

[Pepino]

It was as if he expected the local people to be grateful for his incredible politeness in having the grace to lower himself enough to say "gracias".

I fear the Costas will only have to suffer more of the same given the number of Brits (and others as Edith was saying) buying property out there. For every one person who appreciates the benefits that a little effort brings when living abroad, there seems to be a hundred more who want nothing more than a corner of England, sanitised and re-created for them on the Spanish coast.

... and I bet their plays are crap anyway...! hehe :blush:

[greytop]

Sorry MMMMM - I think your perceptions of the Spanish health system are a little out of date.

As an economist:
1) because most of the Northern European ex-pats do not register their healthcare portability forms as they should and 2) Spanish hospital front-line administration is... well... not motivated(?) to file the paperwork that they do get. Ex-pats are a terrible drain on the health care system. (1) It is unlikely that you will be treated by the health authority without the correct EU forms. Certainly not where I live. Temporary cover lasts for 6 months, permament cover requires more effort dependant on your age and circumstances, but can be obtained.
(2) There is a continuing complaint from the local health authorities that the money passed between countries is not allocated in a fair way within Spain. Tourist areas do not get their share and this is also true of Spanish tourists requiring treatment in different areas. Update 6 Aug 06 (http://www.lasprovincias.es/valencia/pg060806/prensa/noticias/Tema_Dia/200608/06/VAL-TMD-000.html)


If I was a Spanish tax-payer (and I may be…I don’t know yet) I would be pissed that foreigners got old and sick on my dime. It's irresponsible for ex-pats to not fill out the silly form and have their hosting country be compensated for their medical care. Additionally, since ex-pats don't learn the language hospitals have to pay for translators (something that the US doesn't do very well).
Myself and many other expats are also paying Spanish personal tax. Many more probably should! There is no mechanism for us to pay social security unless we are working. That is why the EU social security (including health) agreements cover us from one country to another.
I and many foreigners also buy private health insurance as do many Spanish because there are failings in the state provided systems in most countries that mean paying for peace of mind is well worth it.
Translators are available at our local hospital as part of a volunteer service with voluntary contributions. For outpatient appointments outside the hospital you provide your own.

The state provided health system may not be the best or most cost effective way of providing help, but it sure is a comfort to have it available AS A RIGHT no matter what your circumstances or how they may change.
Hope that makes it clearer.

[Ben]

... and I bet their plays are crap anyway...! hehe :blush:

I can certainly think of a few better ways of spending an evening in Spain!! :D

[Brian]

I can certainly think of a few better ways of spending an evening in Spain!! :D

Ooooh, look, dear! After tea, we can make haste to the club to see "Hamlet-on-a-stick!"

[Ally]

My aunt and uncle bought a place in Mojacar 14 years ago as somewhere to retire after going there on holiday for years. At that time the beach road was no more than a dirt track. They had spanish lessons before moving and still do every week; speak spanish everywhere they go etc etc.

Now however, Mojacar is slowly turning into a Brit paradise with golf courses springing up everywhere (they don't play golf) and when you go to the centro you can hear a lot of english speakers. They hate it but still love Mojacar for what it was/still is to a certain degree and have put roots down there and being pensioners they can't face moving.

Incidentally, I put down Mojacar as my favourite place as I have very happy memories from the last 14 years there, I just wish they'd stop building.

[gary]

Personally I agree to an extent - the architypal Costa del Sol Retiree is just interested in taking Britain abroad and makes no effort to even learn Spanish (there are many exceptions of course) - but can we condemn them for this? Spain is happy to have them, they keep themselves to themselves, and you will never bump into this lot in a bar in Madrid!

What do you think?

Live and let live I am sure they are lovely people - as long as I dont have to live with them on a day to day basis.

They are happy harmless and hopefully contributing to the economy - such a pity that they seem so insular...

I cant imagine moving to spain to live in an expat enclave