Learning the language

[richardksa]

Ok eveyone, I need help. The grammar I understand - it's (almost) quite logical. I can read Spanish and get most of it - with a bit of help from my dictionary. I can even say simple sentences and happily find my way a menu, check into a hotel, but.....that's as far as it goes. :mad:

The problem is retention of the words. How do I recall the words to enlarge my vocabulary. I spend ages with a dictionary, I fumble with flash cards, I label everything in Spanish and spend hours listening to CDs and when I read the word and sometimes on hearing the word I know it's meaning. Then I try to make a sentence and the mind's a blank. I don't want to be able to converse with only waiters and hotels receptionists. Anyone got any tips? :confused:

[Alan]

I found a great program called Vocatude. It's freeware, and you can get it from http://vocatude.gaja.hu/uk/ . It supports all languages as far as I am aware, so it's even useful for learners of Chinese or Arabic. I have a vocabulary list I made up for it if you're interested in that too. Another good one is the Rosetta Stone, but it's pricey.

Your flash cards and dictionaries don't work because your brain needs all the words in context. Organise your vocabulary into topics, and learn the basics first. As for the CDs, most of them go too slowly for it to have any effect. Your brain works VERY quickly. Read a word, learn the translation. Do it again. Pick another. Do it again. Again. Pimsleurs and the like speak too much English and too much time is spent on the same Spanish sentence. You need to hear a word used in MANY different contexts to begin to understand exactly where it can and can't be used. For example, for too long, I was able to ask where the toilets were but couldn't ask where the supermarket was because I hadn't learned how to conjugate the verb in that way.

I find that lack of vocabulary is my problem with French, but the key is to read, read, read. You can't do it any other way. Just do as many things as possible in Spanish in your day to day life. For example, when I want to know the news, I look up El Mundo. I'll watch RTVE for the TV news (available in streaming video) and I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal (I thought a kid's book would be easier . . . :) ). Even switch your DVDs to Spanish if they have that option. I think in Spanish when possible too. The more you keep Spanish as your "working" language, the easier it becomes.

Alan

[ndbutter]

When you're not living somewhere that uses the language and aren't immersed in it, it makes things very difficult. I think the above advice is good. Read and involve yourself in Spanish media as much as possible.

One thing I always try to do throughout the day is think to myself, "now how would I say that in Spanish?" If I'm watching the news and someone got hit by a car, I think, "I know I learned that verb at some point, but what is it? Oh, that's right, 'atropellar'!" The other day I saw someone putting some groceries in the trunk of their car, and for the life of me I couldn't remember how to say "trunk". I ended up having to look it up (something I do only as a last resort). If you force yourself to remember it instead of looking it up, you're less likely to forget it again. However, now that I went through that effort of trying to remember the word, failing, and looking it up, I'll be less likely to forget it.

If you've lived in a Spanish-speaking country for any length of time, chances are you already have a good base. It's just a matter of maintaining and retaining things, which is something I've constantly struggled with.

Another great thing is to keep listening to Notes in Spanish! Every podcast I learn a new word or two. It's fantastic!

[Marina]

I had a great English teacher who used to say that in order to learn a new word you need to use it in a sentence at least 8 times. (We learn by repetition)

It's true that sometimes I've heard a word before and know the meaning, but until I make it "mine" by using it, it'is very possible that I won't use it in a conversation.

So I would organize weekly lists (not very long, 5 to 10 words) and try to build a new sentence for each word every day. You have to be very constant, but it works.

[Ben]

I wrote a post about this a while ago which may help with a few more ideas: click here to take a look (http://www.notesfromspain.com/173/).

[outpostbabu]

I agree with what the others have said. To really get the most out of learning a language, you have to be immersed in it. You can read plenty of grammar books and do plenty of exercises (flash cards, etc) but when it comes down to it, you have to place yourself in situations where you can't escape the language. In my experience studying Spanish, I have discovered that reading, writing, hearing, and speaking are all separate skills that can advance (and decline) independently. For example, because my concentration in Spanish has been focused on independent study and written text, I found it easy to read and write the language but to hear someone speak the same was baffling. You need equal parts of all four (reading, writing, hearing, speaking) to really "get it". The Notes in Spanish podcast is an excellent resource for hearing a normal conversation in Spanish. It would also be beneficial to have a partner who is knowledgeable enough of the language and willing to force you to use it. Another fun thing to do is find some Spanish music that you like, preferably music you aren't familiar with already, and listen along with a prinout of the lyrics. You may find lots of words you do not know but once you look them up, chances are you will listen to the song again and again and the word will be written to that little harddisk in your head. I find methods like this much more useful (and natural) than simply doing written exercises or flashcards. A forum like this would be a good place to connect people trying to learn the language.

[Ben]

A forum like this would be a good place to connect people trying to learn the language.

I'm really open to ideas about how the forum might be used for that. Should there be a seperate section for that? I'm mulling around ideas with the intercambio theme too. Any input would be really appreciated.

[Marina]

I agree, learning songs is a very useful way to learn vocabulary, collocations and prepositions (which I still get wrong all the time). They have helped me lots to get some right answers in many exams.

[timg]

I found it easy to read and write the language but to hear someone speak the same was baffling. You need equal parts of all four (reading, writing, hearing, speaking) to really "get it".

Couldn't agree more. Reading and writing are totally different to listening and speaking. One of the big hurdles is trying to identify the words in the stream of sounds when someone is speaking. This can only come with practice, practice, practice. If you don't have someone to talk with, listen to whatever Spanish language sources you can (radio, TV - great for picking up on physical mannerisms as well, internet radio, DVDs, etc). Only with exposure can you get to identify the "music" of the language. If you have no-one to practice with you could always try repeating phrases that you've heard from one of these sources until you thing you've got the intonation and pronunciation correct. Eventually, though, you'll need to find people to converse with, to force you to think on your feet.

Good luck.
tim

[Ben]

Eventually, though, you'll need to find people to converse with, to force you to think on your feet.

Totally true. Maybe what's needed here is a skype intercambio set up... hmmm... Would that interest anyone, intercambios via skype with Spaniards who also want to learn English? 20 mins in Spanish 20 mins in English for example? Food for thought anyway...

[outpostbabu]

Totally true. Maybe what's needed here is a skype intercambio set up... hmmm... Would that interest anyone, intercambios via skype with Spaniards who also want to learn English? 20 mins in Spanish 20 mins in English for example? Food for thought anyway...

I think something like this would be awesome, via Skype or any of the voice-enabled chat applications out there.

[che escocés]

Hi Ben,

I had exactly the same thought about intercambios over Skype! I think it would be a great idea!

I also have some 'face to face' intercambios coming up so I also would be interested to see what sort of themes/topics are useful for them.

[Ben]

I've opened a new post and poll (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showthread.php?p=302) on this to get some more opinions.

[Ben]

I also have some 'face to face' intercambios coming up so I also would be interested to see what sort of themes/topics are useful for them.

Just imagine it was a blind date! What would you talk about to keep the conversation going with someone you had never met? Work, holidays, family, interests, ambitions.... the sky's the limit! It really helps if you click with the person straight off though. Watch out though, one of my first intercambios went so well that I ended up marrying her ;)

[richardksa]

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. It's probable the lack of conversational practice that is my problem. I'm stuck in a rather remote location and while there are about a dozen languages in use around me all day long, none of them are Spanish.

I have been re-listening to all the notes in Spanish and agree they are a great help in general comprehension. As someone said, each time a little bit more sticks. I just wish I could have some conversational practice, but that will have to wait until July - that's the next time I will be in Spain.

Outpostbabu (I'm sure there's a reason behind that name) mentioned the small hard disk in my head. I have a feeling it has some corrupted clusters!

I shall go off now and persevere, following all the excellent advice you have given. Luckily I do have CDs of Spanish songs. I like Joaquin Sabena as his enunciation is quite clear. And as well as Ban and Marina's wonderful contribution to my education, both lingual and cultural, there is also a podcast called "Hablemos", which is quite useful. :)

[Alan]

Hablemos is good, but I was under the impression that it had stopped. I especially liked it because it was available in both Spanish and English, so you could test your comprehension.

[Mark]

I agree with just about everything that's been said, in particular the theme of daily contact, and also the 4-pronged approach of reading, writing, listening and speaking.

My problem was (is) finding the time, and as i have this desire to learn the language, I would feel some guilt each time I'd let a day go past without studying. Also, I would find that a day would become an week, a week a month.... and so on, so i'd sometimes go weeks without putting in very much effort.

The answer for me was to sign-up for formal study. I'm doing a course which involves submitting regular tests for marking by a tutor, and missing one deadline might be OK, but two or more late submissions wouldn't be accepted so easily. So now I get that daily contact, because the pace of the course demands it. Now the stress is doing the work! rather than the self inflicted stress when I dropped the books for a few weeks.

Good luck with your studies.

[Rabbitoh]

I'd like to extend one hand of empathy and one hand of anecdote. I've studied Spanish since high school (i'm now a post-graduate) and visited both Puerto Rico and Spain twice. My college courses were intense immersion experiences with lots of literature and history. Yet still today I have a terrible time with auditory comprehension. For years I've had varying advice on how to improve my listening skills which all failed for reasons not appropriate here but one thing that has helped me, isolated from Spanish/Latin culture as I am, is simultaneously listening/reading the news. RNE, Radio Nacional de Espana, Canal 5 - Todo Noticias can be listened to live over the web at http://www.rtve.es/rne/r5/index.htm Most stories being discussed on the programmes can be read on the site's main page. For me, hearing and reading about the news at the same time makes some connection in my brain that comes awfully close to participating in actual dialogue. And of course, you learn about the goings-on in Spain. It's a bonus package. I hope this is helpful to somebody. Chau.

[outpostbabu]

Rabbitoh,

That's a great link for people who want to hear spoken Spanish. Some of the people on the broadcast talk really really fast! :eek: Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

[Neil Jaynes]

Anyone with Sky should check out channel 802, some interesting programs, news, documentaries, films.

:eek:

[cubix]

I would not reccomend Rosetta Stone, we used it to augment our work in AP Spanish Language, and unless you want to spend all day matching basic vocabulary(like you first year of spanish)

I have a neat set of Vocab Cards, made by Spark Notes, i have actually found them to be effective, not to teach new words, but to review what i know.

Somethign interesting, I was watching Narnia last, and I was getting bored, so I put on the spanish subtitles. I learned quite a few new words, and some of the grammar structure was interesting. Anyone know how to say beaver(without looking)

Greg

[greytop]

Tried any podcasts? You can repeat all or part of them if you miss a bit. I find it takes me 10 minutes or so with the TV/radio before my ears start working! I´ve been listening to one today aimed at those learning language

SSL4YOU Spanish Segunda Lengua (http://www.podcast.net/show/74589)http://www.podcast.net/img/snd.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:player('http://www.podcast.net/play/74589/8');)

CATEGORIES: Learning & Instruction (http://www.podcast.net/cat/10)/Education (http://www.podcast.net/cat/47), International Podcasts (http://www.podcast.net/cat/89)/Español (http://www.podcast.net/cat/93)LATEST EPISODE:April 10 - Vacaciones (http://ssl4you.mypodcasts.net/index.php?id=35)AUTHOR:Teresa Sanchez

or go to podcast.net/cat/93 for a choice of Spanish articles on religion, travel, computers, music etc. There are probably many more similar sites around.
Living in Spain I´ve learnt to read the paper every day but a trip like this morning´s to the local health centre, to try and renew a health card, reinforces my lack of aural comprehension once more - even after 4 years of trying. Then there is Valenciano......
Buena suerte a todos.

[Polly]

Sorry for coming along so late to this thread -- all the suggestions are very helpful! Thought perhaps I could ad a few of my own:

I have Spanish lessons from several sources loaded up on my ipod
(Good for repetition & reinforcement!) and listen to them, while working out at the gym. Something about the repitition of the words and phrases while performing a repetitive motion (such as walking on the treadmill, or riding the recumbant bike) helps the lesson to really sink in, for me. I program the ipod so that each lesson is broken up by a song or two (in Spanish, of course!) - or perhaps an episode of Notes in Spanish.

Every film I rent, I turn on the subtitle function. If the Film is in English, I turn on the Spanish Subtitles. If it is in Spanish, I may watch first with English subtitles - and then, if time, will watch again with Spanish subtitles turned on. Last month I was watching a Japanese film for my class in Japanese Lit - and ended up watching first with English subtitles to get the main grasp of the story -- and then again, with Spanish subtitles. I thought it would be confusing - but not at all!

Often, where subtitles are provided on regular broadcast television programs (here in the US, anyway) - there is a Spanish option available on the subtitle menu for your remote. I have just started to utilize this function.

I live in a neighborhood with a rapidly growing hispanic population - I do try to do my marketing in the neighborhood bodegas, & grocery stores -- and conduct business en Espanol. The shopkeepers are all starting to recognize me now, and will engage me in more than just "business" talk. Everyone seems to appreciate my efforts - and many are very curious as to how I came to have such a good accent, and still have such a (relatively) immature vocabulary :D

[gary]

I agree about the iPod thing, scince discovering Notes in Spanish about a month or so ago I have been listening to the 31 podcasts in 31 days series by Ben and Marina. When I walk the dog for an hour or so each day I load my iPod shuffle with podcasts to listen to - TWIT, Maccast, Cranky Geeks, mainly tech stuff and some radio comedy. But I always keep at least two episodes of NIS to liten to after the main programme. I have listened to podcast 1 maybe 8 times now, at first mt mind was galloping to keep up, but as you re-listen your brain does not seem to have to resynthesise stuff you have prieviously worked out so you listen and enjoy in spanish as opposed to doing a fast translation in your head. After a while I begun to introduce te second podcast on to the end of the first and replayed both, now I have dropped PC 1 and am rerunning 2 into 3.
Interestingly I find Ben easier to understand than Marina on first listen. There is a certain lilt to the way a native speaker runs words together that is difficult for the foreign ear to pick, but repeated listening helps, and as I progress through the podcasts I am 'tuning in' to Marina's wavelength. The transcripts will be a great help especially when Ben gets a mild ticking off and Marina forgets momentarily to measure the pace of her speech!!

The SSL4You stuff is good too and Sky TV Chanel 802 (I think) carries TVEi the Spanish national TV Channel - it can be so much easier to understand what is being said when you can see the lips move, the facial expression and the body language.

[Brian]

At home, I'm lucky enough to have married a Spaniard. I have to keep reminding her, "Por favor, no me hables en Inglés, porque no lo entiendo!" And of course, I try to engage in speaking Spanish at home as much as possible.

I couple that with a healthy dose of reading El Pais (http://www.elpais.es), often with a dictionary in hand.

I also watch a LOT of CNN+, (http://wwitv.com/l_tv/b1493.asx) which is great for streaming video. There are a lot of Spanish TV channels that you can tune to, but most of it is really bad tv such as info-mercials or mindless game shows.

[lumpsuckerpig]

I found a very old BBC book in my local library a couple of years ago, borrowed it and became immersed. It's called Por Aqui, second year Spanish. It's from 1979 but it's choc full of all the odd stuff and phrases etc you don't hear or read anywhere else, grammar, dictionary, words, verbs. There is tons of reading in it, i.e. 2-3 pages at a time on a theme in Spanish.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0563163119/qid=1147263833/sr=1-12/ref=sr_1_0_12/202-7079089-7943816

There is a an audio track to go with it, but any copy I see advertised never seems to have this with it. I have them on mp3 though if anyone buys the book and cannot get the audio, (Audacity is a great little program for recording tape and encoding to mp3).
This book never leaves my side.
Another book I picked up when I first began to learn the language is Viva España also by the BBC. I found this a very good, easy to get to grips with first step in getting on the Spanish language ladder.
With regard to language learning on cd, I tried quite a few before I settled on the Pimsleur Spanish course. It's quite simply superb and you will be understanding and talking the language from the start.
I tried the Michel Thomas cd's and quite honestly chucked them in the bin after a week, talk about heavy going, and boring to boot too.
I try to spend at least 20 minutes a day either reading, writing or listening etc to Spanish as I find this is enough to keep me up to speed.

[richardksa]

Does anyone know of an on-line dictionary that actually sounds the word? I have a conflict with my learning CDs. For "hijos" one sounds it as " i-hos" the other as "ik-hos" and I'm not sure which is correct for Spain, so a sounding dico would be useful.

[JanesDaddy]

... I was watching Narnia last, and I was getting bored, so I put on the spanish subtitles. I learned quite a few new words, and some of the grammar structure was interesting...
Almost by accident, I turned on Spanish subtitles on a Harry Potter movie last weekend. With an 8-year-old, I've seen it in English dozens of times, and she knows the dialogue by heart now, so it was fun to watch. Then we turned on the Spanish audio track and discovered that there's a BIG difference between what is spoken and what is written. I haven't checked any other DVDs yet, but is this mismatch very common?

[timg]

... is this mismatch very common?
Yes it is! On nearly all English language DVDs I have with both Spanish subtitles and Spanish soundtrack, the subtitles don't match the soundtrack. In fact, even on most of my Spanish ones that have Spanish subtitles (something that seems quite rare on the films that I have), this is the case too. Very odd.

[Pepino]

Yep, I've had the same problem. I know that the subtitlers might occasionally need to drop the odd word here and there to make the text flow better on screen, but on every DVD I've ever watched with Spanish subtitles and audio, the text never comes close to matching the spoken words. It makes things much more difficult.

As a side note, I'm pleased to say that the first film I studied in this way was "The Muppets Christmas Carol", which I do incidentally recommend ;D ... despite the mis-matched subtitles! Actually, I was worried for a time that my Spanish speaking voice would start to mimic the Muppets over time, but I'm relieved to say it hasn't...... Hi!-Yah! :smug:

[Alan]

I watched Delicatessen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101700/) last night - a great French film with a brilliant translation for the subtitles. A word that French has, connerie (think of "con"), doesn't really have an English translation. But it was translated in the film as "bullshit". :D

[richardksa]

EMOH (en mi opinión humilde) this is a good resource for novicios, plus there are some useful links from it tambien.

http://www.spanishome.com/

But I am probably the last to find this. In which case - why didn't you tell me ?????

[ValenciaSon]

I watched Delicatessen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101700/) last night - a great French film with a brilliant translation for the subtitles. A word that French has, connerie (think of "con"), doesn't really have an English translation. But it was translated in the film as "bullshit". :D

Any recipes worth sharing with the forum from the movie?;)

[Alan]

Any recipes worth sharing with the forum from the movie?;)
I take it you've seen it! There are some good recipes, but I'd be breaking the law by encouraging that sort of thing ;)

[Catica]

The problem is retention of the words. How do I recall the words to enlarge my vocabulary. I spend ages with a dictionary, I fumble with flash cards, I label everything in Spanish and spend hours listening to CDs and when I read the word and sometimes on hearing the word I know it's meaning. Then I try to make a sentence and the mind's a blank. I don't want to be able to converse with only waiters and hotels receptionists. Anyone got any tips? :confused:

I totally relate. I know this sounds crazy, you can try something called "shadowing". I learned this on another forum for people obsessed with learning languages. :) They seem to be quite good at it, and so I've opened my mind to it, and it's helped. And basically, all you do you listen to some audio with transcripts and try reading along out loud.

I'm having a hard time understanding all the why's myself, but this website (which is promoting English-Russian software) explains pretty well the rationale behind it.

http://www.language-bridge.com/basic3.php?lang=eng

Of course, they want you to buy their software, so just ignore those parts. :)

You can use an audio-book or audio-magazine. It's actually what attracted me to this site to begin with. I'm so glad I found it! My amateur definition is that "shadowing" is like singing along with a song you don't know that well. At first, you may stumble over the words but after a few listens, you know the song by heart without trying. Anyway, it's just an idea, but it's been helpful to me.

[greytop]

I totally relate. I know this sounds crazy, you can try something called "shadowing". I learned this on another forum for people obsessed with learning languages. :) They seem to be quite good at it, and so I've opened my mind to it, and it's helped. And basically, all you do you listen to some audio with transcripts and try reading along out loud.


The site linked by erika1959 in "insta spanish" thread may be a good resource for this activity. http://www.lomastv.com/
I´m certainly going to give this technique a try as I too have trouble recalling a lot of the stuff I know is filed away in the head. Thanks Catica

[Catica]

The site linked by erika1959 in "insta spanish" thread may be a good resource for this activity. http://www.lomastv.com/
I´m certainly going to give this technique a try as I too have trouble recalling a lot of the stuff I know is filed away in the head. Thanks Catica

I actually first tried this with lomastv.com. I am going to be a subscriber for life! With lomastv, you can repeat individual lines and slow down the rate of speaking, which makes the "shadowing" much easier.

The challenge is that sometimes, you may fall behind, but that's okay. You keep going and somewhere in your brain a connection forms. There's something about hearing the word and then immediately repeating it. It does something "magical" that I just can't explain. I used this method with the lastest Notes in Spanish episode and also felt I retained more that way than by just listening and reading quietly.

Anyway, I just joined this forum yesterday. There was a link Notes from Spain in a spanish.about.com newsletter. I feel that Notes from Spain is one of the best gifts to the Spanish learning world. If I were to describe it in one word, it would be "guau". :) ¡Gracias a Ben y Marina!

[Jimmy]

In terms of reading along with the spoken word - has anyone tried these audiomags? and how do they rate?

Esta se llama "Puerta del Sol"
http://www.champs-elysees.com/products/spanish/product.aspx
Review of above
http://spanish.about.com/library/reviews/aafpr-puerta_del_sol.htm

Esta se llama "Think Spanish"
http://www.readspanish.com/

[Catica]

In terms of reading along with the spoken word - has anyone tried these audiomags? and how do they rate?

Esta se llama "Puerta del Sol"
http://www.champs-elysees.com/products/spanish/product.aspx
Review of above
http://spanish.about.com/library/reviews/aafpr-puerta_del_sol.htm

Esta se llama "Think Spanish"
http://www.readspanish.com/


I actually have subscriptions to both. I find myself turning to Puerta del Sol more. In fact, I'm ashamed to say it, but I rarely open Think Spanish!, and I'm likely not going to renew. It's a quality product and if I used it, I would learn from it, but I never use it because I do not feel it is of the same caliber as Puerta del Sol. The text is narrated by the same two people every month. I just find it to be a little on the dull side, relative to the other options out there. I still respect what they do but I think it could be better. Or maybe they're trying to fit a certain niche? Whatever it is, I don't fit in it. Meanwhile, I like that Puerta del Sol follows a radio show format, complete with a host and newscasts and interviews with notable Spaniards, all speaking in a natural pace. This is the Spanish I want to hear! I love it when it arrives in my mailbox.

One problem I had with Puerta del Sol is that when I first subscribed, it seemed like a good ten months before my second bi-monthly issue arrived. I cannot tell you how many e-mails I sent trying to understand the problem, but I understand they've gone through a change of management and now it's been arriving every two months regularly.

I recently found another audio-based magazine called puntoycoma (http://www.pyc-revista.com/) that you might like. I tried their free sample issue and I was impressed by it. Some parts are narrated, but the interviewed guests are recorded speaking at a natural pace. I also found the subject matter to be engaging. I recall that there was an interview with an emerging Spanish author of short stories, a form not so well-known in Spain (if I remember correctly). It also included one of the author's short stories. I'm planning on subscribing but right now I need to make sure that I have the time.

I'd be interested to know others' experiences with any of these. If you know of any more, please share!

[guapo]

I would also highly recommend Puerta del Sol. In fact I just renewed my subscription today. It is relatively expensive but the quality is good. As Catica says the company went through a rough period last year and there was a big gap in the arrival of the magazines. However they seem to be back on track now.

One other thought, if you look at the cost of Puerta del Sol (around £13.50 an issue) you will get some idea of what great value Notes in Spanish represents!!!

[Jimmy]

Thanks Guys !!!!!

Just coughed up for the Puerta del Sol subscription - I tried the Punto y Coma site - got the magazine but none of the sample audio worked (ie. the download page was missing) - but it looked good.

[Edith]

In terms of reading along with the spoken word - has anyone tried these audiomags? and how do they rate?

Esta se llama "Puerta del Sol"
http://www.champs-elysees.com/products/spanish/product.aspx
Review of above
http://spanish.about.com/library/reviews/aafpr-puerta_del_sol.htm

Esta se llama "Think Spanish"
http://www.readspanish.com/

'Think Spanish' looks especially appealing because of its cultural contents from all over the Spanish-speaking world, but it is very expensive and ordering it from the Netherlands seems a bit problematic to me. ¡Una lástima!

I know this sounds silly but I have never ordered anything by credit card.

[Edith]

I take it you've seen it! There are some good recipes, but I'd be breaking the law by encouraging that sort of thing ;)

Which law? Is there a law against sharing recipes? :D And this is cyberspace anyway... no laws apply here, it's not a country... ;)

[richardksa]

Here's a site thast has just started. More geared towards South American Spanish though, but it's all grist to the mill.

http://www.learn-spanish.co.il/

[Catica]

Thanks Guys !!!!!

Just coughed up for the Puerta del Sol subscription - I tried the Punto y Coma site - got the magazine but none of the sample audio worked (ie. the download page was missing) - but it looked good.

Well, I have the audio but not yet the sample magazine, but that should come in the mail soon.

I've just invested in an mp3 player and I've already uploaded most of Notes in Spanish, Puerta del Sol, Think in Spanish!, and now the sample issue Punto y coma.

I had earlier said I might not resubscribe to Think in Spanish!, but I think it works well with that "shadowing" technique I had described earlier, because they speak rather slowly, I think, on the audio portion. It's amazing to me how much better I "know" the words when I can read along with the audio. When I struggle with a word, it's because while I may understand it on the page, it's not fully in my subconscious yet. The words I have no problem with are the words I already know well.

Back to Punto y coma, I'm planning on subcribing. I've seen the .pdf of the magazine, but I just don't want to print all 56 pages of it as I think the graphics would require a heck of a lot of ink. But I am very impressed by it. My boyfriend (Spanish speaking) and I were listening to the segment on Albert Enstein (or at least I think that's what I understood! :) ) and he found it engaging himself.

[richardksa]

Here is a quote from a book I'm studying:

"Below are presented 35 categories or classes into which all Spanish verbs can be placed. Annex A presents the complete conjugations for model verbs in each of the categories, as well as highlighting the changes for sub classes which display orthographic modifications or have irregular past participles. Annex B provides an alphabetical index of approximately4,800 verbs, showing for each its class and, where applicable, sub class."

The title - "Spanish Verbs Simpler." Oh Lord, if this is "simpler", can I give up now!!!!!

[timg]

Here is a quote from a book I'm studying:

"Below are presented 35 categories or classes into which all Spanish verbs can be placed. Annex A presents the complete conjugations for model verbs in each of the categories, as well as highlighting the changes for sub classes which display orthographic modifications or have irregular past participles. Annex B provides an alphabetical index of approximately4,800 verbs, showing for each its class and, where applicable, sub class."

The title - "Spanish Verbs Simpler." Oh Lord, if this is "simpler", can I give up now!!!!!
I agree it could have been worded better, but surely the news is very good! ALL Spanish verbs can be represented in 35 patterns. How many patterns do you think there might be to represent all English verbs (with its plethora of irregular verbs). This gives one of the reasons I don't like the "501 verbs" type books for Spanish - they're not necessary (or, perhaps better expressed, they don't fit my way of thinking). My English-Spanish dictionary gives these tables of conjugation patterns at the end, and each verb entry in the Spanish part just points you to the model to use.

Another good reason to learn Spanish!

[richardksa]

I was trying to be tongue in cheek. It was just the wording. I just had the impresson the book was verbs made simpler for accomplished linguists!!!!! Actually, it quite a good book in that it looks into the history of Spanish and explains why the words are the way they are and how they developed from the original Latin, where French went off on a different tack.

[lifeinperu]

Jimmy, has the Puerta del Sol subrsciption been worth the money?

[Brian]

... where French went off on a different tack.

This statement could be taken in so many ways.... ;D

[timg]

Here's (http://www.espanglish.info/) another site that is very interesting. Talking about the use of Spanish and English (plus it has a plug for my site (http://timandangela.org.uk/) :blush:

[Steve W]

If you haven´t got Firefox 2.0 (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/) yet, a good reason for doing so is the built in Spellcheck feature. I have downloaded the Spanish dictionary, and it´s very quick to switch between this and English. It spellchecks forms and fields on the web, such as email and this very box I´m typing in now.

It even catches dropped accents, which is what I find most useful.

[landlady]

Totally true. Maybe what's needed here is a skype intercambio set up... hmmm... Would that interest anyone, intercambios via skype with Spaniards who also want to learn English? 20 mins in Spanish 20 mins in English for example? Food for thought anyway...

Just emailed you with an idea I had for my own possible immersion learning Ben, perhaps a special forum set up on this site for arranging this type of 'guest' immersion weekend or holidays might be possible?

I would be interested in more skype intercambio sessions too. My once a week chat with my new friend Marta is not enough, I need more - more I tell you http://imagehost.biz/ims/pictes/209113.gif

[alanmalarkey]

OK steve, I have updated to version 2.0 of Firefox but I am not sure where the dictionary is that you mentioned - I use outlook as an email server not thunderbird.

Alan

[greytop]

OK steve, I have updated to version 2.0 of Firefox but I am not sure where the dictionary is that you mentioned - I use outlook as an email server not thunderbird.

Alan

have a look at previous post (http://www.notesfromspain.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498&postcount=14)

[alanmalarkey]

Many thanks - I am in the process of producing here some not correct spellings of words / palabras in English and Spanish and thinking about mañana and it all worked OK after a bit of help from a friend - as you can see!

[greytop]

Many thanks - I am in the process of producing here some not correct spellings of words / palabras in English and Spanish and thinking about mañana and it all worked OK after a bit of help from a friend - as you can see!
It indeed did and very I am impressed alaN

[landlady]

The site linked by erika1959 in "insta spanish" thread may be a good resource for this activity. http://www.lomastv.com/
I´m certainly going to give this technique a try as I too have trouble recalling a lot of the stuff I know is filed away in the head. Thanks Catica

I just wanted to thank the original poster for this link as I have now subscribed for a Month and find it really good. :thumbs-up:

[cubix]

I just wanted to thank the original poster for this link as I have now subscribed for a Month and find it really good. :thumbs-up:
I just watched the demo, it seemed like a interesting concept, maybe Marina could do this in some video podcasts, jump up and down to accent each word!!


Though in all seriousness that looks cool, do the programs get any harder?

[alanmalarkey]

I have a subscription to Lomas TV that isn't too expensive - I tend to use the programmes about once a week to provide some variety. The clips are variable in their difficulty and quality but they have a 1-5 grading and I find 2 or 3 suits me. They are short which I find good. The music clips are good to listen to but the music generally harks back to genesis or similar!! I usually listen first and follow in English, then listen again and follow in Spanish. Then I play and pause each line checking any words that are unfamiliar. They also have a worksheet/information sheet each week which is referenced to one of the clips and explores some grammar or other aspects of sound track.

I suppose Ben and Marina could do a youtube double act - are you up for that - it is the logical next step and could even tempt me into buying and MP4 player!!