Top 5 reasons for moving to Spain - 1

[Ben]

1. I am off to the UK tomorrow for a week and this is the week's weather forecast for Oxford, in mid-August, where I will be spending most of the time:

[Brian]

1. I am off to the UK tomorrow for a week and this is the week's weather forecast for Oxford, in mid-August, where I will be spending most of the time:

Argh! Absolutely dreadful! Although, it might be a nice break from the Madrid heat.

[Steve W]

That's pretty much what it is here in Barcelona, only a bit warmer. Although I love the weather here, I'm not sure it was a defining reason for making the move.

It all boils down to: the things that I like doing, they do well. e.g. sitting reading the paper with a coffee, at whatever time of day or night that I want. Eating nice food, for a reasonable price. Just having a way of life that is accessible to everyone, and not just if you have money.

All the world class theatre, concerts, restaurants etc in London are no good if you can't afford them.

[Marbella]

Steve's post from Barcelona prompted me to think of things that I don't do in London but I do [do] in Spain. Mrs Marbella agrees with this, and I don't know if this says that there is something wrong with me/London or something right with Spain.

1. In Spain I also like to sit in a bar/terraza and have a beer and read the newspaper. I've never done that in London on my own.

2. In Spain I like going food shopping to the supermarket or market. I hate this in England even though there is nothing really wrong with the products on sale.

3. In Spain I feel safe. In London I do not.

4. In Spain I will stop off at a service station to have a coffee/snack if on a long drive. I'd never do this in England unless desperate.

5. In Spain I like taking my children to the playground. In London I have never and will never put myself through the trauma of doing that.

I don't really dislike London, in fact I'm quite happy really, but it tends to revolve around the house and the entertainment therein plus the odd trip to a museum or park - only during daylight hours.

[Ben]

Great, but quite sad in many ways, list.

[Marbella]

Great, but quite sad in many ways, list.

Perhaps I'm the sad one:) . I think this is why I'm such a fierce defender of Spain's traditions and life-style. I understand 'progress' but despite all the wonderful things that London has to offer, I just don't want Madrid, for example, to end up being the same as London. Giles Tremlett calls it the unavoidable 'internationalisation' of Madrid and perhaps he is right.

I can only speak for myself and the area in which I now live but it is just not pleasant. On the safety thing particularly, living in the town centre of one of London's 'burbs' I've had to call the police a few times and if they do turn up (which they don't/can't always do) they freely admit that they cannot deal with all reported crimes. When you hear a 23 year old policewoman, say that young people around these parts have absolutely no respect for anyone, including the police, then what chance do the rest of us stand? We've just had the honour of one of the local bus routes, one that stops at the bottom of my road 30 seconds away, being named as the most dangerous in the capital. More emergency distress calls from the bus drivers than any other route!

The crime stats year-to-date for this area have just been published: 60 rapes - up 17% on last year; robberies on the person up 50% (that's nearly 1000 muggings); gun crimes up 12%; burglaries up 13%. And these are the crimes that are being reported - imagine what the real figures are!

I don't want to go all Daily Mail on everyone but I just think there is a freedom in Spain that I don't feel here in London.

[Edith]

1. I am off to the UK tomorrow for a week and this is the week's weather forecast for Oxford, in mid-August, where I will be spending most of the time:

For me, the climate would be a very important reason to move to southern Spain or to the Canaries. Other reasons would be the food (although Italian food is even more varied), the language (which I love), and the lifestyle (which is definitely more relaxed than in Holland). I like Italy too but I like Spain even better, so Spain it would be. Spain is also part of the wider Spanish-speaking world which interests me so much.

[gary]

As i have said before I love Spain - but I have felt so at home in Barcelona ever since the momet I set foot there, much more so than Madrid, though I have no idea why this should be. Maybe its the sea but Paral-lel, Gracia, Eixample, Barceloneta, Monjuic, Poble Sec, Bario Gotica and even Raval are all OK by me!!

[Marina]

2. What about the food?? Fresh fish and nice tapas available for everyone

[ValenciaSon]

in a word: EMBUTIDOS!!!!

[Ben]

Perhaps I'm the sad one:) . I think this is why I'm such a fierce defender of Spain's traditions and life-style. I understand 'progress' but despite all the wonderful things that London has to offer, I just don't want Madrid, for example, to end up being the same as London.

Niether do I... I spent a while in Gatwick airport station today being bombarded by announcements, often by a male and female voice at the same time on different platforms saying 'CCTV cameras monitor your progress at all times' - or something to that effect. After 20 minutes of this and an exhausting day's flying it all felt a bit like a scene from 1984!

One thing that Madrid has very little of is CCTV. What went wrong, and when, in the UK? Didn't this used to be (when I was a lad...) a country full of happy go lucky honest types? Will Madrid unavoidably end up under the watchful eye of hundreds of CCTV cameras as well? I'll be in the UK for a few days... I promise no more gloomy posts like this though :)

[jdoe]

sorry guys but i think you're idealizing Spain

1. money
reasonable prices? compared with wich salary? english, french, german, ...? so there're no poor/homeless/fighting-to-arrive-next-payroll people here? everyone can afford rents, mortgages, vacations, hotels, theatres, concerts, restaurants, ...? :confused:
the european convergence in salaries is very, very far away from that in prices, specially after euro introduction. i'd be eager to share your rhapsody if i were earning a Europe salary and paying spanish prices :D
common, Europe still begins crossing the Pyrenees! ;)

2. weather
i can understand your enthusiasm coming from people living in England or Holland. but for me, aside from being native from a tropical country, winter in Barcelona is a pain in the neck!!! the humidity is so high, you freeze no matter how cozy you are :mad:. i've been in Madrid in winter and it's a lot better than here. i'm sure everybody knows what thermal-sensation is

and believe me, having spent a whole winter working in Finland with -20 ºC, i do really know what cold means

3. security
i've never been in London so, i take your word for granted. anyway, nobody confuses me with a "guiri" when i walk by the Ramblas and i don't live in a chalet:
http://ivanpuentes.com/2006/05/31/mais-garda-civil-en-cataluna/

just my 2 cents.

regards,

jdoe

[Marbella]

... I promise no more gloomy posts like this though :)

Welcome back to England, Ben. I bet you still get a little excited about returning to Old Blighty, no? You certainly fetched over some sunshine because this afternoon has been quite sunny and warm. Everyone is a bit jumpy around the airports so you've probably seen the worst. Oxford will be far less oppressive. Have fun.

[guapo]

Welcome back to England, Ben. I bet you still get a little excited about returning to Old Blighty, no? You certainly fetched over some sunshine because this afternoon has been quite sunny and warm. Everyone is a bit jumpy around the airports so you've probably seen the worst. Oxford will be far less oppressive. Have fun.
Hey cheer up everyone!

England has just won a football game (good to see El Tel back on the bench) a new dawn beckons.... oh and I just booked a few days holiday, off to Bilbao on tuesday - airlines permitting
:party:

[Edith]

Hi Jdoe,

Are you Brazilian?

I was thinking about the Canary Islands actually... it never gets truly cold there. In Holland, the cold can be terrible due to a combination of wind chill and high humidity. The perpetual darkness is also a factor to be reckoned with, even though we're still a long way from Finland. I hate our winters, with a passion!

[jdoe]

Hi Jdoe,

Are you Brazilian?

hi Edith:

i'm from Cuba (sorry, i don't know where Castro is ;) )

I was thinking about the Canary Islands actually... it never gets truly cold there. In Holland, the cold can be terrible due to a combination of wind chill and high humidity. The perpetual darkness is also a factor to be reckoned with, even though we're still a long way from Finland. I hate our winters, with a passion!

you're right, the Canary Islands have the perfect weather, at least for me. after 10 years in BCN, i wish i could find a job there; i've been trying for some time but it's not so easy

i also hate your winters, in fact any winter ;D

[Ben]

Marbella, thanks for the welcome, it is nice to get back to blighty every now and again, once I get away from the airport! So nice to see all this greenery!

Guapo - send us some photos when you get back!

J Doe - yes, the salary situation in Spain is a joke, and I can't understand how it is allowed to go on. Up and up goes the cost of living, housing etc, but the wages still stay at pre-euro levels. This goes for spanish companies or the multi-nationals that increasingly set up in Spain - think Accenture, Lucent, Media giants - all with multi million dollar turnovers and still paying their employees sh*t. Drives me mad!

[greytop]

J Doe - yes, the salary situation in Spain is a joke, and I can't understand how it is allowed to go on. Up and up goes the cost of living, housing etc, but the wages still stay at pre-euro levels. This goes for spanish companies or the multi-nationals that increasingly set up in Spain - think Accenture, Lucent, Media giants - all with multi million dollar turnovers and still paying their employees sh*t. Drives me mad!
Today's Las Provincias had an article (http://www.lasprovincias.es/valencia/pg060817/prensa/noticias/Economia/200608/17/VAL-ECO-232.html) on this theme
"Menos salario
Así, en el mes de julio –último dato de IPC conocido– los precios habían crecido en la Comunitat un 3,9%. Según el Boletín de Estadísticas Laborales, en el mes de junio –último al que hace referencia– los incrementos salariales pactados eran del 2,8%. En consecuencia, los asalariados valencianos habían perdido 1,1 puntos de poder adquisitivo. Su salario real –no el nominal, sino el comparado con el comportamiento de los precios y que viene a constatar cual es su poder de compra real– había bajado un 1,1%."
From a personal point of view as a non-worker I think my pensions go further as local taxes and utility bills seem less. I'm not complacent though and realise things change and Spain and the rest of Europe are probably slowly converging due to the EU.
So far though I know where I feel happiest!

[Marbella]

A short story from today's El Pais in English, average Spanish salaries are a third lower than the European Union average. Lower than Cyprus.

I'm no economist but isn't it obvious that if salaries were higher then the government would get more revenue in personal taxes so public services would be even better and people would have more money to spend in the shops so the company profits would go up...and so on.

http://www.elpais.es/misc/herald/herald.pdf

[Brian]

To this point in my job search in Spain, I've yet to find a company willing or able to match my current salary. Perhaps it's time to lower my standards.... :(

[ValenciaSon]

Do the US firms in Spain pay with US wages or Spain wages?

[Victor]

In Galicia we get paid with Albania wages:mad:

[ValenciaSon]

In Galicia we get paid with Albania wages:mad:


Isn't Galicia a different country?:rolleyes:

[jdoe]

Do the US firms in Spain pay with US wages or Spain wages?
it depends if you're a US worker sended to work in Spain or contracted here. the same is valid for every multinational. that's why they move to Malasya, Mexico, China, ... :mad:

[Victor]

Isn't Galicia a different country?:rolleyes:
Sadly, sometimes it feels like that:(

[Marina]

Do the US firms in Spain pay with US wages or Spain wages?


They usually pay better than other Spanish companies, but definetely not US salaries:(

[landlady]

We moved to Spain for several reasons:
My husbands health - having a history of heart problems in his family I didn't much like the kind of stress he was increasingly being put under at work.
Weather - No need to say more.
Cost of living - Still lower than the UK
Slower pace of life - May not be the case in the large Spanish Cities, but certainly on the South Coast there is still the manana attitude. (cant do the accent)
Freedom for children - Our daughter has more freedom here than I would have allowed her in the UK

We are in a fortunate position of being early retired from Government jobs, so lower wages doesn't apply to us and our joint pensions go much further here than they would have in the UK where we would have struggled. Also previously owning a house in the South of England, we were able to sell at a good price and get rid of our large noose of a mortgage and buy our lovely villa outright in a place where property prices are low in comparison, (although rising dramatically over the last few years)
We have a far better standard of living here, than we would have had in the UK. Being able to dine out much more often and enjoy a few drinks with friends without it costing a fortune.

There are some things we miss, the variety of shops, the lack of organised activities like adult evening classes, the greenery. But we wouldn't go back to live in the UK if you paid us and are very appreciative that the Spanish people have made us feel so welcome in their Country.

[Edith]

We are in a fortunate position of being early retired from Government jobs

Lucky you! You look so young in that picture!:)

[landlady]

Awww, thanks. I was on a short weekend trip to Benidorm, rested, tanned and with a new hairstyle ;D Having a child at the grand old age of 41 keeps you on your toes!!! I'm now 53 so I don't look that young close up lol. This photo was taken near the top of the Bali hotel, the highest one in Benidorm. Here is a photo of the view from the balcony (if it works here) http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g222/jan-landlady/DSC00041.jpg
Although Benidorm is touristy, its still fun for a short break, and Benidorm Palace puts on some truly wonderful shows, the flamenco is fantastic.

[Edith]

Ah, and those sunny winters! :)

For me, retirement is still 17 years away; I'm 48 and in its infinite wisdom, the Dutch government has decided we all have to keep working until we are 65... at least. :confused: But I'm thinking about a career change which just might - I'm saying MIGHT - enable to me to move to southern Spain sooner than that. El tiempo dirá.

[omeyas]

We were staying in Javea a few years ago, and as we were passing Benidorm on the motorway, I thought we'd pop in to see if it was as bad as I thought it was! It was! I stuck it for about an hour or so, and then left. It's definitely not my sort of place. :( Similarly, we dropped into Torrevieja area, where we hadn't been for a few years, and even by Spanish building standards, I was amazed at how built up it had become. So crowded, the roads, the beaches, the restaurants,parking, everywhere. And so many Brits! I definitely won't be going there again.

[landlady]

Its true, Torrevieja has become a mini Britain, we don't care for it much ourselves. The Town itself is quite nice, with lots of little Spanish shops, a nice harbour with numerous little cafe's & bars along the front, a night market and pretty fountain, not too touristy looking like Benidorm, but it is too crowded, with a lot of rowdy Brits in the Summer months, and the roads and parking are horrendous.
Fortunately we live further towards Alicante and are surrounded by typical Spanish Villages, like Dolores, San Fulgencio or larger Spanish Towns like Guardamar with its beautiful park, Almoradi, Elche where the most palm trees in the whole of Spain can be found, Santa Pola and all these still retain the same Spanish feel as they always have, where the old men sit together around the square and numerous local fiesta's are held on a regular basis.
Although we live on a huge, mainly expats urbanisation, we are lucky to be in a tranquil, pretty spot and aren't bothered much by the holiday exhibitions of the larger louts that come to Spain every July/August for the cheap ciggies and drink. We only have a 5-10 minute drive to get to these lovely Spanish villages and Towns. Although we would like to visit the large Cities like Madrid, Granada, Seville etc. we wouldn't want to live in one and much prefer the smaller Villages where we like to join in the local activities when we are invited, and wander around local markets. I guess its because we are getting older, we don't like too much hustle and bustle anymore.
One day, when I am more proficient in the Spanish language, we would like to move to one of these villages, but as we started off without any knowledge of Spanish, living on an urbanisation was a good stepping stone for us, and less of a trauma to our little girl who immediately had some English friends to play with. It has taken a lot longer for her to become fluent than it would have done had we moved immediately to an all Spanish area, but her happiness was of course important to us and it was our decision to move to Spain, not hers. She loves her life here now and no doubt will get herself a Spanish boyfriend and integrate fully when she is old enough to socialise on her own. We are hoping with her fluency in Spanish and good knowledge of Valenciano and French, her job prospects would mean that she could work and live in any European Country, or even America if she so wished (her Auntie is an American Citizen).

[omeyas]

Yes, we were staying on a golf complex, Villa Martín (I don´t play, by the way!) outside of Torrevieja. We sat in the "square" just to have a drink, and it´s full of various restaurants, bars etc, and my wife commented that we had been there half an hour and had yet to hear a word of Spanish spoken. We used to go down to roundabout at la Zinnia?, and there we joined to queue of traffic to crawl into Torrevieja. And when you got there, there was nowhere to park. Invariably, the traffic was tailed back right along the bypass. No, not my sort of place. Mind you, we have spent time in Valencia, Sevilla, Granada, Ronda, Málaga, Córdoba, Cádiz and they all have traffic problems, but it somehow seems different! I guess it´s because they are not full of Brits! Equally we have stayed in some pretty remote spots and loved that as well. We are going out on Thursday for about 8 days, and will be spending a few days in the campo, a village and a city, so a bit of everything :)