"Spanish racists target Lewis Hamilton in hate campaign ahead of Brazilian Grand Prix

[Legazpi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/3287052/Spanish-racists-target-Lewis-Hamilton-in-voodoo-campaign-ahead-of-Brazilian-Grand-Prix--Formula-One.html

Is this another case of the media stirring things up? There must be thousands of racist websites out there, so why report on this one in particular?

[Beckett]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/3287052/Spanish-racists-target-Lewis-Hamilton-in-voodoo-campaign-ahead-of-Brazilian-Grand-Prix--Formula-One.html

Is this another case of the media stirring things up? There must be thousands of racist websites out there, so why report on this one in particular?

Man, you Europeans are la leche. By that logic, the media shouldn't report on anything.

"Thousands of racist websites out there, so why report on this one in particular." Wow, that just blows my mind. Where shall I start? Racists are like cockroaches....they scurry into the darkness when the light gets shined on them. The media is the light. One of the antidotes to racism is exposure. Funny how so many racists lose their coraje when standing face to face with a person who they supposedly hate enough to want them dead.

Also, the level of hatred and vitriol that some Spaniards have for Hamilton is just so out of control and downright bizarre that it raises questions about their own sanity. WTF are they smoking? I simply cannot fathom their "reality" and what incredibly sad miserable lives they must lead that it gives them solace to make such comments. What a sick, twisted perspective on the world. And then they wonder why things are such a mess in their world. Look in the mirror, troncos. It ain't about Big Brother, Tio Sam, los moros, Zapatero, PSOE, etc.

Also, what the heck did Hamilton ever do to them? Why such intensity of hatred for a complete stranger who has never done anything to them?

The stuff you read on those Spanish news sites and blogs is hate speech, plain and simple. Where I come from, people are into sports and there are intense fans, and yet people don't go around wishing for the gruesome death of an athlete they dislike. You don't see Boston Red Sox fans organizing a lynch mob to take down a star player of the New York Yankees. And Boston, for years, was considered one of the most racist cities in America.

P.S. Legazpi, you don't think it would be "news" in Spain if the Spanish media were to find a British website calling for the death of Fernando Alonso?

[Legazpi]

Beckett

So you are saying it is a good thing that these websites are given mass media exposure?

It only takes one person to set up a website and then post racist comments under different aliases. Before long you have people jumping to conclusions and assuming that the minority represent the majority.

We live in dangerous times if the contents of anonymous websites that suddenly appear out of nowhere are automatically taken as being representative of public opinion.

If I was into viral marketing, the message is clear: set up a racist website against Lewis Hamilton, sneek your advertising in there somewhere, and watch your click-rate soar.

The only news here would be if steps were not taken by the Spanish authorities to shut this site down. Then it would imply that the government does not care about racism. However the media posting links to it all over the internet will only improve its ratings in Google and draw attention to it. Is it not playing into the hands of the racist(s) who set the site up?

Your argument that racists "scurry into the darkness when the light gets shined on them" does not apply in the internet world, because the internet is anonymous. You only shine the light on their racist opinions, never on the racists themselves.

[latoan80]

Man, you Europeans are la leche. By that logic, the media shouldn't report on anything.

"Thousands of racist websites out there, so why report on this one in particular." Wow, that just blows my mind. Where shall I start? Racists are like cockroaches....they scurry into the darkness when the light gets shined on them. The media is the light. One of the antidotes to racism is exposure. Funny how so many racists lose their coraje when standing face to face with a person who they supposedly hate enough to want them dead.

Also, the level of hatred and vitriol that some Spaniards have for Hamilton is just so out of control and downright bizarre that it raises questions about their own sanity. WTF are they smoking? I simply cannot fathom their "reality" and what incredibly sad miserable lives they must lead that it gives them solace to make such comments. What a sick, twisted perspective on the world. And then they wonder why things are such a mess in their world. Look in the mirror, troncos. It ain't about Big Brother, Tio Sam, los moros, Zapatero, PSOE, etc.

Also, what the heck did Hamilton ever do to them? Why such intensity of hatred for a complete stranger who has never done anything to them?

The stuff you read on those Spanish news sites and blogs is hate speech, plain and simple. Where I come from, people are into sports and there are intense fans, and yet people don't go around wishing for the gruesome death of an athlete they dislike. You don't see Boston Red Sox fans organizing a lynch mob to take down a star player of the New York Yankees. And Boston, for years, was considered one of the most racist cities in America.

P.S. Legazpi, you don't think it would be "news" in Spain if the Spanish media were to find a British website calling for the death of Fernando Alonso?




MENUDA LUMBRERA ESTAS HECHO... im spanish and my husband is indian, now call me a racist coz i hate hamilton. Look at your own country before you critizise others. If Spain was like england it would have been a war the day jeremy clarkson called RAFAEL NADAL an "APE" in national television. But of course, nothing in the newspapers about it. You guys and your press of hate are ridiculous. LUMBRERA!!

[richardksa]

Latoan80, could you tell me why you hate Hamilton so much? You may have a valid reason and I/we would like to know. Not being involved with any sort of sport I find it a mystery that it can stir up so much emotion.

[Edith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/3287052/Spanish-racists-target-Lewis-Hamilton-in-voodoo-campaign-ahead-of-Brazilian-Grand-Prix--Formula-One.html

Is this another case of the media stirring things up? There must be thousands of racist websites out there, so why report on this one in particular?

Racism and sports are always newsworthy because it involves so many people. I don't think this is harmless at all. Alas, ethnic hatred is still alive and kicking in most countries of the world, Spain being no exception. Racism is everywhere.

[Edith]

MENUDA LUMBRERA ESTAS HECHO... im spanish and my husband is indian, now call me a racist coz i hate hamilton. Look at your own country before you critizise others. If Spain was like england it would have been a war the day jeremy clarkson called RAFAEL NADAL an "APE" in national television. But of course, nothing in the newspapers about it. You guys and your press of hate are ridiculous. LUMBRERA!!

Psychologists call this 'projection'... of course, only stupid Americans and arrogant Brits can be racists... :rolleyes:

[Legazpi]

Apparently the website was owned and run by the Spanish branch of a New York based advertising agency:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3362526/Website-at-the-centre-of-racist-attacks-on-Lewis-Hamilton-is-owned-by-the-worlds-biggest-advertising-agency.html

Maybe it was originally intended to be a marketing gimmick after all?

[Beckett]

Apparently the website was owned and run by the Spanish branch of a New York based advertising agency:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/3362526/Website-at-the-centre-of-racist-attacks-on-Lewis-Hamilton-is-owned-by-the-worlds-biggest-advertising-agency.html

Maybe it was originally intended to be a marketing gimmick after all?

Despicable. I did a little Googling and it turns out that web site has been operational for MORE THAN A YEAR!!! Here's what 20Minutos, that paragon of Spanish journalism, had to say about the web site last year, in Oct. 2007:

"De lo mejor que tiene la web son los mensajes. Desde auténticas burradas a comentarios de lo más sarcástico. Con decir que la página incluye una advertencia en la que no se hace responsable del tono de los mensajes..."

Full 2007 article here: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/292507/0/juego/ruedas/hamilton/)

So, it appears that thanks to the British media, the web site was finally flushed down the drain. It took the non-Spanish media to bring attention to this since the Spanish media thought "hey, what a lark!"

[Beckett]

MENUDA LUMBRERA ESTAS HECHO... im spanish and my husband is indian, now call me a racist coz i hate hamilton. Look at your own country before you critizise others. If Spain was like england it would have been a war the day jeremy clarkson called RAFAEL NADAL an "APE" in national television. But of course, nothing in the newspapers about it. You guys and your press of hate are ridiculous. LUMBRERA!!

Thank you for proving my point. Your first and only comment in this forum is to cause strife. Spain has got a serious societal problem brewing. By the way, you never did say why you "hate" Hamilton so much. Do you feel the same way about Roger Federer? (sound of crickets chirping) :p Yeah, I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

[Beckett]

By the way, CONGRATS to Lewis Hamilton for becoming the youngest world champion in Formula One history.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/drivers/6207204.stm

[MrMark]

Thank you for proving my point. Your first and only comment in this forum is to cause strife. Spain has got a serious societal problem brewing. By the way, you never did say why you "hate" Hamilton so much. Do you feel the same way about Roger Federer? (sound of crickets chirping) :p Yeah, I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

Come on. I don't subscribe to this view that uniquely in the World the Spanish are racists (if you think about it it's a racist sentiment itself). Unfortunately, terrible behaviour takes place all over the world, not least in my own country of England. For example read how a foreign student was killed in a race attack in Hastings.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/26/race
There have been other such like attacks over the years, and it's incumbent on all of us to fight against the triumphalist "racism only happens elsewhere" feeling.
As for the jingo-ism in sports events, it's very common, even when there's no "race" issue involved. Schumacher was very unpopular for years in the UK as he was seen to have unfairly edged out Damon Hill (he was also criticised for being boring, but you could have said that about Mansell yet he was very popular). I doubt many Brazilians will be saying much good about Hamilton either. Spain for perhaps the first time in their history has had a World Champion in racing, and yes some are upset that McLaren gave favourable treatment to the English guy last year. But this will pass. I like sport as much as the next person, but it has to be said the combination of high spirits and rowdy jingoism can lead to some fairly unacceptable behaviour (eg in the uk football fans singing "I'd rather be a Pake than a Turk" or engaging in riots/fighting). It doesn't mean you can write the whole society off (although yes, you hope to see a long-term decline in this type of behaviour).

[gastephen]

Psychologists call this 'projection'... of course, only stupid Americans and arrogant Brits can be racists... :rolleyes:

If by 'Brit' you mean English, then yes, you are absolutely correct (we Scots being far too busy being mean to have any time to be arrogant) :rolleyes:

[Edith]

If by 'Brit' you mean English, then yes, you are absolutely correct (we Scots being far too busy being mean to have any time to be arrogant) :rolleyes:

:D:D:D

That's what they say about the Dutch, too! ;)

[Juanjo]

If by 'Brit' you mean English, then yes, you are absolutely correct (we Scots being far too busy being mean to have any time to be arrogant) :rolleyes:

An unjustified stereotype in my experience! [However, I frequently remind my Scots golfing mate that the only reason the UK 50p piece is septagonal is so that a spanner can be applied to help remove it from a Scottish hand!;)]

[gastephen]

An unjustified stereotype in my experience!

Exactly.



(But did you note the parsimony of my reply above? Damn, I guess I've just blown that now by adding this (relatively) prolix footnote. Oh well.)

[Edith]

Exactly.



(But did you note the parsimony of my reply above? Damn, I guess I've just blown that now by adding this (relatively) prolix footnote. Oh well.)

That's what stereotypes are about - they are stereotypes. ;)

[pedroenespana]

and yes some are upset that McLaren gave favourable treatment to the English guy last year.


And what favourable treatment was that then?

[greytop]

And what favourable treatment was that then?He got more go faster stripes on his car and kept winning ;)

[Legazpi]

Come on. I don't subscribe to this view that uniquely in the World the Spanish are racists (if you think about it it's a racist sentiment itself). Unfortunately, terrible behaviour takes place all over the world, not least in my own country of England. For example read how a foreign student was killed in a race attack in Hastings.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/26/race
There have been other such like attacks over the years, and it's incumbent on all of us to fight against the triumphalist "racism only happens elsewhere" feeling.
As for the jingo-ism in sports events, it's very common, even when there's no "race" issue involved. Schumacher was very unpopular for years in the UK as he was seen to have unfairly edged out Damon Hill (he was also criticised for being boring, but you could have said that about Mansell yet he was very popular). I doubt many Brazilians will be saying much good about Hamilton either. Spain for perhaps the first time in their history has had a World Champion in racing, and yes some are upset that McLaren gave favourable treatment to the English guy last year. But this will pass. I like sport as much as the next person, but it has to be said the combination of high spirits and rowdy jingoism can lead to some fairly unacceptable behaviour (eg in the uk football fans singing "I'd rather be a Pake than a Turk" or engaging in riots/fighting). It doesn't mean you can write the whole society off (although yes, you hope to see a long-term decline in this type of behaviour).

I agree with your sentiments entirely. As I pointed out on a different thread, I think the problem lies in the differences between the UK and Spanish media, and the way they behave. People in the UK often expect the media to reflect the "feelings of the nation" to a certain extent, and to express moral outrage whenever certain incidents occur. So they therefore look to the Spanish media to reflect a sense of national outrage at the behaviour of a few Spanish idiots doing monkey chants at black footballers.

However the Spanish media do not respond in such a way. They do not take a lead in anything, or perform any kind of cutting edge investigative journalism that might spark a debate. The Spanish media just passively reports whatever news everyone else is reporting, or whatever news the government is feeding them.

So when the UK media saw no reaction from the Spanish media to what took place when England played Spain in 2004, they assumed that in Spain this behaviour was seen as being morally acceptable. Hence they could get away with headlines implying that Spain in general has a racist society (which, as you point out, is a racist sentiment in itself). This has led to a feeding frenzy by the UK media: all they need to do is report on any behaviour by a Spaniard that might be interpreted as racist, place it on their website, and soon thousands of people are clicking on it. Easy marketing.

So in many ways this has shown the worst side of the UK media as well. Many Spanish now feel they are being unfairly singled out, and don't take any genuine problems with racism so seriously.

[Exocet]

I don't want to fall unfriendly to the british friends of the forum for what I will say, because I know that in England there is of everything, but I have to say it to clarify certain things: In Spain it is not hated Hamilton to be black, in Spain it is hated Hamilton to be dirty and traitor with their former-partner Fernando Alonso. But in fact the people in Spain they hate more to the team Mclaren, and with reason, Mclaren represents England and there has always been a great antagonism between England and Spain, for that reason that team falls bad in all the senses.
The English press is not to give lessons to Spain of anything, better than they speaks of the words racist directed to some foreign players in the Premier League.

[Legazpi]

I don't want to fall unfriendly to the british friends of the forum for what I will say, because I know that in England there is of everything, but I have to say it to clarify certain things: In Spain it is not hated Hamilton to be black, in Spain it is hated Hamilton to be dirty and traitor with their former-partner Fernando Alonso. But in fact the people in Spain they hate more to the team Mclaren, and with reason, Mclaren represents England and there has always been a great antagonism between England and Spain, for that reason that team falls bad in all the senses.
The English press is not to give lessons to Spain of anything, better than they speaks of the words racist directed to some foreign players in the Premier League.

The British press talks of problems of racism in Britain as well, including football, and the Spanish press is free to do so as well. Maybe if the Spanish press commented on racism in Spain then the British press wouldn't need to.

While in the past there has been more reason for British sports fans to "hate" people like Schumacher (for deliberately crashing into Hill) or Maradona (for the hand-ball incident) than there is for the Spanish to "hate" Hamilton, you will find that they don't. They may be unpopular to an extent, but that's about it. This makes the Spanish "hatred" of Hamilton, which seems to be based on him not letting Alonso win, sound immature.

[Exocet]

The British press talks of problems of racism in Britain as well, including football, and the Spanish press is free to do so as well. Maybe if the Spanish press commented on racism in Spain then the British press wouldn't need to.

While in the past there has been more reason for British sports fans to "hate" people like Schumacher (for deliberately crashing into Hill) or Maradona (for the hand-ball incident) than there is for the Spanish to "hate" Hamilton, you will find that they don't. They may be unpopular to an extent, but that's about it. This makes the Spanish "hatred" of Hamilton, which seems to be based on him not letting Alonso win, sound immature.

Okey, then now there is the same rivalry with Hamilton-Alonso that there was in their time with Hill-Schumacher. I won't deny that in Spain there are racist people, like in many so many countries, but not for that reason one can say that Spain is a racist country. To Spain come many british young that get drunk, dirty and destroy everything and for that reason we don't say that all the british are drunk and hooligans.

[Legazpi]

Okey, then now there is the same rivalry with Hamilton-Alonso that there was in their time with Hill-Schumacher. I won't deny that in Spain there are racist people, like in many so many countries, but not for that reason one can say that Spain is a racist country. To Spain come many british young that get drunk, dirty and destroy everything and for that reason we don't say that all the british are drunk and hooligans.

I agree completely.

Anyone who says the Spanish people are racists in general is in fact making a racist comment themselves. This has already been discussed in this thread. I'm not aware of any reports by the British media that have said the Spanish people are racists, they tend to talk about things like "racism in Spain", "Spanish problems with racism", or simply "Spanish racism". None of these terms imply that the Spanish people are racists in general, although the last one is cutting it a bit fine.

You will also find reports in the British media about "racism in Britain" and "British problems with racism", though interestingly I don't recall the phrase "British racism" being used much. Racism is something that has received a lot of attention for many years in Britain. Therefore when racism occurs in Britain, it goes straight to the front page. I guess it is a bit like how domestic violence has become a big issue in Spain: if somebody is found beating up his wife, the whole of Spain will know about it.

Therefore it comes as a bit of a shock to the British when racism occurs in public, and there is no media uproar. They jump to the conclusion that racism is acceptable in Spain, when perhaps the reality is simply that racism is such a new problem in Spain that it has yet to grab the attention of the Spanish media in the same way.

You make a good point about the disgusting behaviour of thousands of British people abroad every summer. Indeed that may be a bigger issue than 4 Spanish people dressing up as Lewis Hamiltons family for example, and it may be hypocritical of the British media to point the finger so much. However the British media does also report on the problems of alcohol abuse and the disgraceful behaviour by British people abroad - there is no denial that this happens. I don't think the same can be said of the Spanish media regarding the problems with racism in Spain.

[Exocet]

I agree completely.

Anyone who says the Spanish people are racists in general is in fact making a racist comment themselves. This has already been discussed in this thread. I'm not aware of any reports by the British media that have said the Spanish people are racists, they tend to talk about things like "racism in Spain", "Spanish problems with racism", or simply "Spanish racism". None of these terms imply that the Spanish people are racists in general, although the last one is cutting it a bit fine.

You will also find reports in the British media about "racism in Britain" and "British problems with racism", though interestingly I don't recall the phrase "British racism" being used much. Racism is something that has received a lot of attention for many years in Britain. Therefore when racism occurs in Britain, it goes straight to the front page. I guess it is a bit like how domestic violence has become a big issue in Spain: if somebody is found beating up his wife, the whole of Spain will know about it.

Therefore it comes as a bit of a shock to the British when racism occurs in public, and there is no media uproar. They jump to the conclusion that racism is acceptable in Spain, when perhaps the reality is simply that racism is such a new problem in Spain that it has yet to grab the attention of the Spanish media in the same way.

You make a good point about the disgusting behaviour of thousands of British people abroad every summer. Indeed that may be a bigger issue than 4 Spanish people dressing up as Lewis Hamiltons family for example, and it may be hypocritical of the British media to point the finger so much. However the British media does also report on the problems of alcohol abuse and the disgraceful behaviour by British people abroad - there is no denial that this happens. I don't think the same can be said of the Spanish media regarding the problems with racism in Spain.

I don't know where you live, but I live in Spain and here when there is some case of racism it leaves in television, in the press, in the radio, in internet.... in all, then I don't know the reason you say that the spanish press doesn't speak of the cases of racism that there is in Spain because that is not certain.

[Legazpi]

I don't know where you live, but I live in Spain and here when there is some case of racism it leaves in television, in the press, in the radio, in internet.... in all, then I don't know the reason you say that the spanish press doesn't speak of the cases of racism that there is in Spain because that is not certain.

I live in Madrid. I was thinking of the England-Spain match in 2004 when monkey chants were made towards the black England players. That made headline news in Britain. However I saw no mention of it in the Spanish press until after it became big news in the UK. It left the impression that that sort of behaviour was acceptable in Spain.

After that match I agree that racism at football matches began to be reported more regularly in Spain, such as the occasion when Eto'o almost walked off the pitch. However before that England-Spain match I saw no reporting of racism at football matches, yet I have been reliably informed by Spanish friends that it was taking place, usually by a small minority of "ultras".

Another factor is that in Britain, because there is a much worse and longer history of racism and violence at football grounds, it is a bigger issue and mechanisms are already in place to punish racist behaviour at football grounds. The media expect teams to be heavily fined if their fans behave badly. That is yet to be the case in Spain, so when this kind of behaviour goes relatively unpunished, it adds to the impression that it is seen as acceptable in Spain.

[Exocet]

I live in Madrid. I was thinking of the England-Spain match in 2004 when monkey chants were made towards the black England players. That made headline news in Britain. However I saw no mention of it in the Spanish press until after it became big news in the UK. It left the impression that that sort of behaviour was acceptable in Spain.

After that match I agree that racism at football matches began to be reported more regularly in Spain, such as the occasion when Eto'o almost walked off the pitch. However before that England-Spain match I saw no reporting of racism at football matches, yet I have been reliably informed by Spanish friends that it was taking place, usually by a small minority of "ultras".

Another factor is that in Britain, because there is a much worse and longer history of racism and violence at football grounds, it is a bigger issue and mechanisms are already in place to punish racist behaviour at football grounds. The media expect teams to be heavily fined if their fans behave badly. That is yet to be the case in Spain, so when this kind of behaviour goes relatively unpunished, it adds to the impression that it is seen as acceptable in Spain.

In the spanish press perhaps is written less about those cases of racism in the sport, but in television, radio and internet those news go out without any difficulty. And regarding that game of Spain-England 2004 the english yellow press had already heated a lot the atmosphere, almost looking for the provocation and distorting alone some words joking that Luis Aragones had told to the player José Antonio Reyes.
Everything was a maneuver to leave in bad place to Spain, since London was one of the big rivals from Madrid for the Olympic Games of 2012.

[Legazpi]

In the spanish press perhaps is written less about those cases of racism in the sport, but in television, radio and internet those news go out without any difficulty. And regarding that game of Spain-England 2004 the english yellow press had already heated a lot the atmosphere, almost looking for the provocation and distorting alone some words joking that Luis Aragones had told to the player José Antonio Reyes.
Everything was a maneuver to leave in bad place to Spain, since London was one of the big rivals from Madrid for the Olympic Games of 2012.

Even though Aragones' words were the catalyst for what happened, I still believe that it was the lack of reaction of the Spanish authorities/press that escalated the problem and changed it from being an issue about what one person said to it being an issue about how seriously racism is taken by the Spanish in general.

As I recall, Aragones light-heartedly referred to Thierry Henry as a "puto negro" while trying to convince Reyes that he was better than him. There may well be an issue regarding the translation here. It is in indeed possible that in Spanish this is no worse than a Scottish football manager telling a player that he is better than that "English bastard" for example. In which case it would be regarded as normal "football banter". It would have been very easy for Aragones to point this out and then apologise for any offence caused, albeit unintentionally. However he decided to instead start criticising the British for their history of slave trading (something Spain is guilty of as well). He decided to pick a fight with the British press, which is exactly what they wanted, because it gives them something to write about.

I don't think the British press had a particular interest in London winning the 2012 olympics. The reporters would have preferred somewhere more exotic to win it, so they could get a free holiday there. I don't think the British press cares whether it is "right" or "wrong" either. The British press is only interested in selling newspapers, and it will do absolutely anything to do so, even if it means regularly abusing its freedoms. It especially enjoys the occasional puritanical witch-hunt, which is exactly what Aragones has now provided for them.