En los podcasts...

[enhorabuena]

¡Hola amigos! Hay un uso extraño del verbo gustar en el podcast Beginner 19: "me gustó mucho las playas"? ¿No se debería decir 'me gustaron mucho las playas', dado que había más de una playa? ¿Se puede decir así o es debido al efecto de la coloquialidad donde nos pueden escapar soluciones menos gramaticales?

y otra cosa siempre en el 19: "estaba tan cansado que me dormí, durante casi todo el concierto". "Dormirse", antes yo creía que se usa para designar el único evento "to fall asleep" que occurre una sola vez, es una acción, pero, si es así después no se podría decir "durante", porqué éste es válido para eventos que tienen una duración. Para mí estos dos expresiones estaban en conflicto desde el punto de vista de la lógica, que no siempre coinciden con el uso efectivo de la lengua, especialmente cuando hablamos. ¿Me podéis iluminar?

[delgado]

"me gustó mucho las playas"? ¿No se debería decir 'me gustaron mucho las playas'

I would say that "gustaron" would be the correct verb form in this sentence . however, in my experience some people just use the form "gusto" to describe the past , singular or plural (or maybe it was just a mistake on the speakers part)


"estaba tan cansado que me dormí, durante casi todo el concierto"

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast in question, but I would translate this as " I was so tired that I was falling asleep through most of the concert" (in the context of feeling like you are going to fall asleep without actually falling asleep) The reason that I would translate it like this(rightly or wrongly) is because I wouldn't expect anyone to actually be able to sleep during a concert of any kind.

However , maybe it would sound better as " ....casi me dormia durante..."

Would you be so kind as to tell us at what point you heard this in the podcast??

PS. top marks for paying attention!! ;)

Hope this helps!!!

[enhorabuena]

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast in question, but I would translate this as " I was so tired that I was falling asleep through the whole of the concert"

In the transcripts it comes: "I was so tired that I fell asleep, for nearly all of the concert" (the same problem in English)

Would you be so kind as to tell us at what point you heard this in the podcast??


So, the explanation of dormir-dormirse is in the Beginner 19 Podcast at 7'46''-8'58'', while the aforementioned example is at 13'25''-13'32''.

So how would you tell what happened at the Sydney Opera house? "Casi me dormía durante" sounds good...

[Ben]

me gustaron mucho las playas would certainly be correct

And me dormí, durante casi todo el concierto is fine - just double checked with Marina!

[enhorabuena]

Thank you very much for the responses! In this lies the power of Real Spanish or the competence of a native speaker as Chomsky referred to it ;)

[delgado]

After listening to the podcast it seems that Ben did actually sleep through the concert(due to his jet lag) so " me dormí durante casi todo el concierto" would be correct (as Ben/Marina just said).With regards to your original question which I think was relating to the difference between "dormir"(to sleep) and "dormirse"(to fall asleep) and their usage, I did some further research for you/me.

I found that .......

"Me dormí durante casi todo el concierto" and "dormí durante casi todo el concierto" are both accepted as grammatically correct by native spanish speakers....

" Dormía durante casi todo el concierto" is used less but would also be considered correct

" me dormía durante casi todo el concierto" (porque era tan aburrido) would be considered correct in the context that I stated before listening to the podcast.

Hope this helps!!

[enhorabuena]

I accept that all four forms can be used, but I am curious about finding the motivation of such a usage like "me dormí durante casi todo el concierto".

- "casi todo el concierto" is a well defined period in the past (which determines the use of the prét. indefinido)
- the action (to fall asleep) happened only once (which determines the use of the prét. indefinido)

So, in the light of these rules, it is clear why the forms dormía or me dormía are not so felicitous, and the verb should be in prét. indefinido.

The only problem is, that the lenght of the two time periods in question (determined from one hand by the verb and from the other by the adverb of time) is not the same: to fall asleep is a moment, while the concert lasted hours.

Now, "me" (before the verb) is put because it makes the expression more personal, like in Italian (ho mangiato un panino - mi sono mangiato un panino), or is grammatically the verb "dormirse" that is conjugated? And if it is the second one, what is its value?

ps: I don't know whether my question is clear (it is evident that there is sg. that I don't understand) but I cannot formulate it better at the moment

thanks for all your efforts!!

[delgado]

I accept that all four forms can be used, but I am curious about finding the motivation of such a usage like "me dormí durante casi todo el concierto".

- "casi todo el concierto" is a well defined period in the past (which determines the use of the prét. indefinido)
- the action (to fall asleep) happened only once (which determines the use of the prét. indefinido)

So, in the light of these rules, it is clear why the forms dormía or me dormía are not so felicitous, and the verb should be in prét. indefinido.

The only problem is, that the lenght of the two time periods in question (determined from one hand by the verb and from the other by the adverb of time) is not the same: to fall asleep is a moment, while the concert lasted hours.

The reason that the past tense " dormí/me dormí " is used in the given example is because the action was not repeated more than once (regardless of the time period in which it took place)

If we were to change the example slightly to "me dormía durante todos los conciertos" then the imperfect tense is used because we would be talking about a repeated action/routine.

Now, "me" (before the verb) is put because it makes the expression more personal, like in Italian (ho mangiato un panino - mi sono mangiato un panino), or is grammatically the verb "dormirse" that is conjugated? And if it is the second one, what is its value?

I am probably not the best person to explain this and maybe one of the grammar experts could give you more of a concise explanation. However, it is the verb "dormirse" that is used in the example and I think that you are on the right track with your comparison to Italian.These verbs are called something like "pronominal" rather than reflexive as they don't describe something that you can do to yourself, they just change the meaning of the verb.

Eg.

Me quejo (you dont complain yourself)
Me equivoco (you don't mistake yourself)
Etc.....

For more information about pronominal verbs try starting another thread and I'm sure that you will get your answers.

Hope this helps!!!