So I bought a new car...

[ValenciaSon]

My 1999 VW Passat, after giving me 10 years of mostly reliable service, lost its timing belt and took several valves with it. Luckily I researched what its replacement would be, as I always do. So I purchased an '09 Honda Civic Hybrid. It's silver, with leather, Bluetooth and of course, GPS. It is the least expensive new I've ever purchased at $26,100 or €19,986.21 while (whilst) being the most featured vehicle. How much does this vehicle run in your neck of the woods?

I love it, of course I'm still in the honeymoon phase. I love the voice activated controls. I love the way it synched with my iPhone and migrated all my contacts. I love that I can connect my iPhone or any other device via Bluetooth or USB and therefore have access to my iTunes. I love that it's green.:cool:

[switch007]

Nice! What an incredible price too! From what I can see it's about £17-19k, so about $24-27k. You must be a geek at heart no? Bluetooth, GPS, iPhone... how does it handle? MPG? :D

[Ben]

Sounds great! What's the 'green' angle? Love to hear more about that.

[tad]

Sounds great! What's the 'green' angle? Love to hear more about that.
...and I thought he would have gone for something like this (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/12/top-gear-hydrogen-car-honda-fcx-clarity.php)

[Acosta]

Sounds great! What's the 'green' angle? Love to hear more about that.


Since it is a hybrid it gets between 40 to 50 miles per gallon of gas and runs of the battery in traffic more so than the gas engine. Hence better millage and less pollution.

More green then and overgrown SUV that gets 12 MPG.

[gastephen]

With the global-financial-crisis induced slump in the automotive industry, the manufacturers should really just cut their storage costs by giving this lot (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/gallery/2009/jan/16/unsold-cars?picture=341883529) away free. I wouldn't say no. ;-)

[ValenciaSon]

Sounds great! What's the 'green' angle? Love to hear more about that.

Since it is a hybrid it gets between 40 to 50 miles per gallon of gas and runs of the battery in traffic more so than the gas engine. Hence better millage and less pollution.

More green then and overgrown SUV that gets 12 MPG.

That's correct, Acosta. It's green because of its hybrid power-plant and how it switches to electric in traffic but it also assists the gas engine on the highway during accelerations.

[deecree]

With the global-financial-crisis induced slump in the automotive industry, the manufacturers should really just cut their storage costs by giving this lot (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/gallery/2009/jan/16/unsold-cars?picture=341883529) away free. I wouldn't say no. ;-)

So buy your car in a year's time and you will be getting a mouldy interior, a rusted body, and mice living in the engine?

They're actually shipping tonnes of cars out to countries like Peru that still have economic growth and selling them at knock down rates. Not low enough for me though. :(

[gary]

I love that it's green.:cool:

hope you are referring to environmentally green not the colo(u)r...;D

PS - is battery disposal factored in to the greenness?

[ValenciaSon]

hope you are referring to environmentally green not the colo(u)r...;D

PS - is battery disposal factored in to the greenness?My understanding is that battery disposal is accounted for. Green as in its environmental prudence, not the coloür, though my Passat was a stately forest green with a beige and black interior, and it still looked good. Let us not forget how my new car reduces my carbon footprint! ;)

[Acosta]

hope you are referring to environmentally green not the colo(u)r...;D

PS - is battery disposal factored in to the greenness?

Actually this will be a challenge with hybrids and electrics. I would very interested to see what solutions could be devised to cope with this realistic issue as the % of hybrids grows.

Every proposal and system has both its trade-offs. The process is to understand and devise something which will serve everyone best for the future.

Also I think plugin-electric cars will hardly been green. If one thinks about how much fossil fuel has to been burned to charge that all electric car up and consider what that would be on a mass scale.

Now with a twist and it becomes better, imagine a plug-hybrid that can recharge from solar. Especially in parts of the world that receive high amounts of sunlight.

There are a range of solutions, setbacks and new solutions. yet it is quite certain nothing good will come, if we stand still and attempt nothing other than being a stone throwing pessimists,

[ValenciaSon]

What about the countries that are sun-challenged?

[gary]

What about the countries that are sun-challenged?

Whilst you lot are running on solar power there'll be more petrol n Deisel left for us;D;D;D

[deecree]

What about the countries that are sun-challenged?

Holes in the floor of the car so your feet can reach the surface of the road.

Its the ultimate in green technology, just don't refuel with beans.

[Acosta]

Holes in the floor of the car so your feet can reach the surface of the road.

Its the ultimate in green technology, just don't refuel with beans.

Fred Flintstone is very happy.

[Acosta]

What about the countries that are sun-challenged?

Rent Solar space from the countries that do....

[gastephen]

Fred Flintstone is very happy.

As are the Ant Hill Mob.

[ribeirasacra]

This green issue is a load of old bull.
Nothing in this world is environmental friendly, not even those wind turbines they want to plant everywhere.
Sorry rant over, now on with the geekey stuff**, what is the dash like on the Honda? Have you a photo?


** I was going to say petrol head stuff, but this being a so called green car does not really fit does it?

[ValenciaSon]

This green issue is a load of old bull.
Nothing in this world is environmental friendly, not even those wind turbines they want to plant everywhere.
Sorry rant over, now on with the geekey stuff**, what is the dash like on the Honda? Have you a photo?


** I was going to say petrol head stuff, but this being a so called green car does not really fit does it?Green issue a load of bull? Do enlighten.

[gary]

Green issue a load of bull? Do enlighten.

Here we go again...:D:D

Mind you, the biggest greenhouse gas, which is on the rise, never gets a mention - good old water vapour - accounts for well over 90% of greenhouse gasses, and the warmer it gets the less CO2 the sea can hold in solution.... and round we go again.

Interesting listening? (http://autopod.ca/podcast_audio/chum/4/298/01.29.09%20-LNC.mp3)

Manhattan Declaration Anyone (http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=54)?

List of Scientists (http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=1)

Incidentally, we're having a normal winter in the UK - a continetal block of cold air sitting tight resulting in loadsa snow.

Sadly we're a bit out of practice as this hasnt happened since 1981

Can we get a picture of the lean machine?

[ValenciaSon]

Here she is: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3261974160_e6f821a177.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3261974166_3de3621cd9.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3334/3261974172_0894f25e74.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3384/3261974178_5b0a5eb390.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/3261982368_5c2757edc6.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3261982372_e418f758b5.jpg?v=0

[gastephen]

I am surprised you haven't returned it to the dealership yet.

Seems a bit much expecting the passenger to have to steer it for you.

;-)

[gary]

As the earth has actually been cooling for the last few years you have To say "Climate Change" instead if "Global Warming" ;)

PD : Very nice too

[ValenciaSon]

As the earth has actually been cooling for the last few years you have To say "Climate Change" instead if "Global Warming" ;)

PD : Very nice too

Global Temperature Trends since the 1880s:http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.lrg.gif

Climate: Climate encompasses the temperatures, humidity, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and numerous other meteorological factors in a given region over long periods of time, as opposed to the term weather, which refers to current activity.

Something unrelated but interesting Honda does: they inflate the tires with Nitrogen. It appears Nitrogen is less subject to volume changes due to temperature variability so a more constant pressure is maintained in the tires, thus prolonging their life span.


Thanks

[ribeirasacra]

VS, Yep a sweeping statement made by me. You see there is all this talk about being green, but everything in our lives is polluting. Even if you travel around by bicycle, to manufacture that simple machine cost the world a lot of resources. For you to read this message is polluting. For us it feels the if the greens of this world had their way we would have just to sit in our mud hut doing nothing (yes another sweeping statement but I hope you can understand what I mean). There really needs to be some balance reporting form those green thinkers. I want to know how green is green?

You car. That looks quite cool. I was just thinking where is the rev counter but then thought maybe you don’t need one with the electric motor. Then I realised it is the dial in the middle and the speed readout is digital, and slight obscured in your photo. I will have try and find more info on the car on line. I have not seen one in Spain but then I do live in a backwater not a major city. The design looks better than the Prius too.
Thank you for taking the time to take and post the photos.

[switch007]

There really needs to be some balance reporting form those green thinkers. I want to know how green is green?
IMO green is about reducing the damage being done to the earth. I think there's a negative stigma related to being "green". How about we rephrase it to "taking small steps to stop raping the earth so much".

[deecree]

VS, Yep a sweeping statement made by me. You see there is all this talk about being green, but everything in our lives is polluting. Even if you travel around by bicycle, to manufacture that simple machine cost the world a lot of resources. For you to read this message is polluting. For us it feels the if the greens of this world had their way we would have just to sit in our mud hut doing nothing (yes another sweeping statement but I hope you can understand what I mean). There really needs to be some balance reporting form those green thinkers. I want to know how green is green?

You car. That looks quite cool. I was just thinking where is the rev counter but then thought maybe you don’t need one with the electric motor. Then I realised it is the dial in the middle and the speed readout is digital, and slight obscured in your photo. I will have try and find more info on the car on line. I have not seen one in Spain but then I do live in a backwater not a major city. The design looks better than the Prius too.
Thank you for taking the time to take and post the photos.

I once heard about a study that determined that the world can support 3 billion humans in a pre-Industrial society. Anything more would eventually lead to earth´s destruction.
Human caused climate change or not, the damage done to the planet by mining the materials needed to build a new car and the energy required in the construction process are equivelent to going out and shoting some endagered species, setting a forest fire and salting a retreating glacier. :rolleyes::(

[ValenciaSon]

I once heard about a study that determined that the world can support 3 billion humans in a pre-Industrial society. Anything more would eventually lead to earth´s destruction.
Human caused climate change or not, the damage done to the planet by mining the materials needed to build a new car and the energy required in the construction process are equivelent to going out and shoting some endagered species, setting a forest fire and salting a retreating glacier. :rolleyes::(So it wouldn't be less detrimental to the environment if I bought a Hummer instead:rolleyes: ?

[deecree]

So it wouldn't be less detrimental to the environment if I bought a Hummer instead:rolleyes: ?

If it stayed in the drive way. :)

[eldeano]

If it stayed in the drive way. :)

Hey Decree, I've just finished a cracking book - El Origen Perdido by Matilde Asensi. It's about Taipicala - that's up round your neck of the woods, isn't it? Do you know much about it?

[deecree]

Hey Decree, I've just finished a cracking book - El Origen Perdido by Matilde Asensi. It's about Taipicala - that's up round your neck of the woods, isn't it? Do you know much about it?

Tiwanaku/Tihuanaco in Bolivia?

It was the home of an ancient civilisation with remarkable technology, particularly in the ability to cut and shape rock and move water.

The Incas say that as children of the sun, the first of them rose from the waters of Lake Titicaca (Tiwanaku is on the eastern side) and walked the Andes until finding a suitable place to start a civilisation, deciding on Q´osco/Cusco.

The area of Cusco was inhabited by Quechua-speaking peasants living a rudementry lifestyle since the fall of the Wari civilisation, who´s empire was at its height when Tiwanaku was also powerful. The Aymara-speaking Incas, "civilised" the locals, introducing fantastic new building methods and a new religion - in return adopting Quechua.

The Inca empire rose very quickly, almost as if they had already had a long history.

[eldeano]

Tiwanaku/Tihuanaco in Bolivia?

It was the home of an ancient civilisation with remarkable technology, particularly in the ability to cut and shape rock and move water.

The Incas say that as children of the sun, the first of them rose from the waters of Lake Titicaca (Tiwanaku is on the eastern side) and walked the Andes until finding a suitable place to start a civilisation, deciding on Q´osco/Cusco.

The area of Cusco was inhabited by Quechua-speaking peasants living a rudementry lifestyle since the fall of the Wari civilisation, who´s empire was at its height when Tiwanaku was also powerful. The Aymara-speaking Incas, "civilised" the locals, introducing fantastic new building methods and a new religion - in return adopting Quechua.

The Inca empire rose very quickly, almost as if they had already had a long history.

So that's a yes, then. Thanks Prof. :p

[gary]

[quote=ValenciaSon;70037]Global Temperature Trends since the 1880s:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.lrg.gif


Okay - if these figures are in the range -0.4 to +0.6 the ride has been 0.8° C in 130 years - negligable and within a reasonable range

- if the figures are -4 to +6 then the sea was below its own freezing point from 1880 Until the 1920s - so clearly not the case

Wonder if the zeros were left off the Y axis in order to create a more dramatic effect...

[gastephen]

Okay - if these figures are in the range -0.4 to +0.6 the ride has been 0.8° C in 130 years - negligable and within a reasonable range



I think these figures are in tenths of a degree. I'm not so sure that you can write these changes off as being neglible though...

"From 1961 to 2003, the global ocean temperature has risen by 0.10 °C from the surface to a depth of 700 m. There is variability both year-to-year and over longer time scales, with global ocean heat content observations showing high rates of warming for 1991 to 2003, but some cooling from 2003 to 2007. The temperature of the Antarctic Southern Ocean rose by 0.17 °C (0.31 °F) between the 1950s and the 1980s, nearly twice the rate for the world's oceans as a whole. As well as having effects on ecosystems (e.g. by melting sea ice, affecting algae that grow on its underside), warming reduces the ocean's ability to absorb CO2."

[ribeirasacra]

For me it is graphs like Gary has posted here that just do not do the green lobby any favours.
I have several doubts about the facts behind this sort of information. First of all where were these figures gathered from? It would be for the better cause of any case that the location and how these figures were logged and recorded. Personally I cannot see data taken back in 1800 (or so) being so accurate as those taken with more modern equipment. I therefore feel that figures, that been gathered using different measuring techniques are not a basis to form an argument.
A second point of contention for me is that the graph only illustrates the rise and not the complete picture of the sea temperature. This gives a false impression on exactly how much the sea temps. has risen. As pointed out the actual rise is points of a degree. What does this prove?
The third and final objection to this sort of information is that if it does prove the sea temp. Is rising what does that mean? Is it due to natural courses or due to only mans pollution to the world?
It is the same with saving lamps (compact fluorescent lamp) around the house. They do use less electricity when lit, but to manufacture them they use up far more of this worlds resources than the old incandescent bulbs. To be completely green you should recycle them after use. But here in Spain (for instance) there is no special bin or area to place them in for recycling. So into the normal household rubbish they go. That is not green.

[gary]

...warming reduces the ocean's ability to absorb CO2."

This is the point i have made a few times, having worked in a bottling plant where they chill the drinks to carbonate them...

Heres the flipside of the coin, what if the rise in CO2 is caused by a naturally occuring warming of the ocean, for whatever reason... the rise in water temperature would be driving the level of CO2 upwards as the sea becomes less able to maintain its dissolved CO2 and releases it into the atmosphere...

[deecree]

My car is more environmentally friendly... it´s recycled. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3274998831_db0787d753.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3275678350_a1ef252d9c.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3274998771_74fa29e4d7.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3275678454_8d9f3ff5a7.jpg?v=0

[ValenciaSon]

[QUOTE=deecree;70410]My car is more environmentally friendly... it´s recycled. :)

Nice ride.

[ribeirasacra]

My car is more environmentally friendly... it´s recycled. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3274998831_db0787d753.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3275678350_a1ef252d9c.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3274998771_74fa29e4d7.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3275678454_8d9f3ff5a7.jpg?v=0


Sorry have been able to log in for some time as we have been away.
Ian also has a classic car.

[deecree]

Sorry have been able to log in for some time as we have been away.
Ian also has a classic car.

A ver...

[ValenciaSon]

I meant to ask, how common or popular are hybrid vehicles in España, and other European countries?

[ValenciaSon]

I meant to ask, how common or popular are hybrid vehicles in España, and other European countries?Are there any hybrids in Europe?