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Old 21st March 2009, 06:30 PM   #108
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
 
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastephen View Post
Whereas with all other cases, the ‘modal meaning’ of the matrix dictates the mood of the subordinate verb, the si operator serves to open a ‘mental space’ for hypothesis, in which the choice of mood is no longer bound to the speaker’s modal attitude. This then leaves it free to operate within the mental space to distinguish the degree of possibility.
While I was in high school, they used to consider conditional as an independent mood (the "potential mood") and subjunctive in conditional clauses as "subjunctive mood". One score later, I came to the fact that they consider conditional as a part of indicative mood, and recently, that many consider subjunctive in conditional clauses to be an indicative use of subjunctive conjugations (there are other uses of subjunctive as indicative mood). I think that use is lying half way between indicative and subjunctive, explaining why it has "survived" and now is regarded as correct the use of pluperfect subjunctive as conditional when the condition is completely set in the past and history can't be rewritten ("si hubiera tenido el dinero lo hubiera comprado inmediatamente, pero ya es tarde").

Regarding all the rest of Ruiz Campillo's work, I consider it valuable as it provides great insights and carefully thought explanations, examples and counter-examples, even with a touch of humor
Quote:
- ¿Te parece irreal que esté aquí?
- No, no, me parece evidente que ESTÁS aquí.
- Entonces te das cuenta de que ESTOY
realmente aquí, ¿no?
- Sí, ya sé que ESTÁS aquí, lo que no sé es por
qué insistes tanto en que ESTÁS aquí.
- Bueno, es que el autor me lo ha pedido
But I still consider the approach in Lozano's article as useful -if not even better- as Ruiz Campillo's. I think that the examples in 16 and 25 (quite) "están poniendo la regadera lejos de los malvones", so to speak. In 29, my opinion is that both "declaran". Some of Ruiz Campillo's examples are better explained with Lozano's approach. That's the case of
Quote:
- Ya sé que ERES (*seas) mi hermana, y por eso estoy dispuesta a ayudarte en
este lío. Solo hay una cosa que te pido a cambio.
- ¿Qué es?
- No quiero que tu novio ENTRE y SALGA de mi habitación ni TOQUE mis cosas.
- ¿Eso hace?
where the sister clearly wants the boyfriend not doing a list of things.

This slippery creature subjunctive hasn't yet found its "unified field theory", no matter all the ink rivers that have been wasted in its behalf. I insist on the main problem is that a native speaker acquires subjunctive in different ages and mental stages: the full role of subjunctive as do-not-do and don't(do-not-do) and other vanilla-approaches are fully working even when the raising native speaker hasn't yet reached the age for his brain to fully understand that conservation laws take priority over what your senses perceive.
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