Halloween

[richardksa]

Is halloween celebrated in Spain? Is it regarded as an American import or has it always been part of the culture? Have the Spanish really taken it on board?

[greytop]

Originally Posted by richardksa

Is halloween celebrated in Spain? Is it regarded as an American import or has it always been part of the culture? Have the Spanish really taken it on board?

Round here only in a small way so far. But - it is an excuse for a fiesta so they probably will eventually!
My ex teacher of Spanish used to get her kids class all dressed up and take them round town to visit "volunteers" amongst her British pupils. I had a houseful of about 30 of them collecting bags of sweets one year. I hope it helped keep them interested in learning English!
I wonder if they'd like Guy Fawkes night with all the fireworks....
(for non-Brits, Guy Fawkes tried & failed to blow up the Houses of Parliament several hundred years ago by filling the cellar with gunpowder. Not sure if we celebrate his failure or the fact that he tried!)

[catavino]

My wife is doing halloween at the gradeschool she's teaching at. Right now she's making 55 paper maiche masks! Bit crazy she says!

[Opacita]

Imagine 55 heads to prep. Strands of hair pulled back so as not to be a part of the mask, imbedded into the gesso forever. 55 heads to put lotion on knowing full well that at least 10 will have a skin reaction to the lotion, making their eyes look like puffy balls of cotton for at least an hour. 55 heads to put cold paper mache on that will more resemble a Friday the 13th film than something out of Sesame Street. But hey, they're 5 and there is nothing cooler than feeling that cold wet gesso drying on your face, while your friends and neighbors eyeball you in jealousy wanting to be next. Halloween is a wonderfully commercial holiday that has found its way here and I want to support it all I can. It's not that I want to support the Nestle corporation, because they are obviously doing quite fine on their own here in Spain. It's that I want to support children's imaginations to think outside the box as to what they could potentially "be" for that one day. From what I can see, I don't think Halloween has nearly the same market appeal that it does in the states, but it's growing. Plus, parents aren't nearly as frightened that a razor will show up in their child's candybar, nor are they weary that some sex offender will take advantage of the dozen or so children walking the streets in costume. Instead, it seems more like a cute little holiday where kids dress up, get even more candy than they already do and have a great time. Like all commercial wonders from the States, it's come through the television and internet and has appeared to make its mark.

[cubix]

Don't know why this came to mind at all, and is off topic, but in Mexico they don't celebrate Holloween, but on November 1st and 2nd, they celebrate El Dia de los Muertos, I've been to the festival downtown a few times and it seems like a festive yet revereant event. Some compare it to Halloween in the US,

but as we all know, holloween is all about the candy(I am pretty sad, this will be my last year trick or treating)

[greytop]

Originally Posted by cubix

Don't know why this came to mind at all, and is off topic, but in Mexico they don't celebrate Holloween, but on November 1st and 2nd, they celebrate El Dia de los Muertos, I've been to the festival downtown a few times and it seems like a festive yet revereant event. Some compare it to Halloween in the US,

but as we all know, holloween is all about the candy(I am pretty sad, this will be my last year trick or treating)

Here in Spain those are the days that the cemeteries get a good tidy up and lots of fresh flowers appear. My wife and I usually go for a look round after that as it is very tranquil and beautiful. I think Oct 31 is All Saints Eve and Nov 1 All Saints Day.

[catavino]

Originally Posted by Opacita

Instead, it seems more like a cute little holiday where kids dress up, get even more candy than they already do and have a great time. Like all commercial wonders from the States, it's come through the television and internet and has appeared to make its mark.

Personally I think the dressing up can stay, but let's get rid of the candy, last thing we need is more fat kids! No one needs a new way to sell candy and the kids with diabetes dont' need it, that's for sure!

[Edith]

Originally Posted by catavino

Personally I think the dressing up can stay, but let's get rid of the candy, last thing we need is more fat kids! No one needs a new way to sell candy and the kids with diabetes dont' need it, that's for sure!

Nor do the kids with AD/HD, whose hyperactivity may worsen because of all the chemical additives.

@ Cubix

I don't think El Día de los Muertos in Mexico can be compared to Halloween, which is an entirely secular event. The Mexican traditions connected with November 1 and 2 are a mix of Catholicism and pre-Hispanic beliefs.

[Alex12]

I wonder if they'd like Guy Fawkes night with all the fireworks....
(for non-Brits, Guy Fawkes tried & failed to blow up the Houses of Parliament several hundred years ago by filling the cellar with gunpowder. Not sure if we celebrate his failure or the fact that he tried!)[/quote]

just logged on and following the chat about Halloween and Greytops'comment about Guy Fawkes..all I can hope is that they don't get to like it...,here in South london this time of year at night is a nightmare..it starts around now and goes on till well after the 5th of November, night time is like Bagdad must have sounded like on that opening night of the war..massive explosions, rockets, whizzing and sizzling...the kids go mad and its everynight ! the cats cower under under the bed, the baby keeps waking up screaming, the windows rattle, the area lies under a sulpharous haze of fire-work smoke...its total pyrotechnical mayhem with no control. I surpose its a laugh for your average spotty 14 year old..but they lose fingers and eyesight and the rest of us can't wait for the shops to put the fireworks away till next year.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Edith

I don't think El Día de los Muertos in Mexico can be compared to Halloween, which is an entirely secular event. The Mexican traditions connected with November 1 and 2 are a mix of Catholicism and pre-Hispanic beliefs.

Halloween isn't totally secular in the States. Wiccans, pagans, and others see it as their biggest religious festival.

To most, though, it's all about the candy, which, as a parent, in moderation, is fine. I agree with Catavino that we don't need any more fat kids hopped up on sugar, but you know, kids should be afforded a little fun, so long as it doesn't go overboard.

[Alex12]

My colleague Catherine just looked over my shoulder at my last message and said I sound like a joy-less miserable grump...I can see she has a point when I re-read it...but being stuck in an office on a gloomy london day can have that effect, especially thinking of all you lucky ones discussing and researching best beers in still-sunny-spain...

[greytop]

Originally Posted by Alex12

just logged on and following the chat about Halloween and Greytops'comment about Guy Fawkes..all I can hope is that they don't get to like it...,here in South london this time of year at night is a nightmare..it starts around now and goes on till well after the 5th of November, night time is like Bagdad must have sounded like on that opening night of the war..massive explosions, rockets, whizzing and sizzling...the kids go mad and its everynight ! the cats cower under under the bed, the baby keeps waking up screaming, the windows rattle, the area lies under a sulpharous haze of fire-work smoke...its total pyrotechnical mayhem with no control. I surpose its a laugh for your average spotty 14 year old..but they lose fingers and eyesight and the rest of us can't wait for the shops to put the fireworks away till next year.

Maybe you are not going to like living in Spain after all - you've just described an average weekend here!! We get 'mascletas' for main events where the square is filled with explosives hanging from the lamposts plus mortars of varying sizes dependant on the importance/budget. Also mini versions for weddings (firecrackers in strings outside bride/groom's homes, more at church), birthdays and sporting events.
At least once a year (in Pego) they also have a fireworks fight as part of one celebration when local residents are advised to board up the house. Add the street discos and the nights are far from boring. Plus bonfires to burn the fallas.

[Edith]

On this Arizona State Museum site, you'll find a short podcast about the use of masks during the Día de los Muertos in Mexico (podcast # 8):

http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/podcasts/index.shtml

[ValenciaSon]

Originally Posted by catavino

Personally I think the dressing up can stay, but let's get rid of the candy, last thing we need is more fat kids! No one needs a new way to sell candy and the kids with diabetes dont' need it, that's for sure!

Ryan I certainly respect your opinion on cuisine, wine and other such subjects but taking candy out of Halloween is akin to taking the alcohol out of wine, only much more hazardous to one's health.

Wait till you have kids and you'll see what I mean.

[ValenciaSon]

Originally Posted by richardksa

Is halloween celebrated in Spain? Is it regarded as an American import or has it always been part of the culture? Have the Spanish really taken it on board?

I think Halloween has its northern european origins and was passed on to the US and other parts outside of Europe during colonization.

[Edith]

Wikipedia: The holiday was a day of religious festivities in various northern European Pagan traditions, until it was appropriated by Christian missionaries and given a Christian interpretation.

Interesting, isn't it? I believe many of our European folk traditions, including the Catholic ones, are pre-Christian in origin (think of the Christmas tree, for example). In countries like Mexico, this religious syncretism is more visible because of all the indigenous pageantry but in Europe you'll find it too. Here is an article which highlights the 'pagan' elements of carnaval in Galicia:

http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrcarnaval.html

And these hairy ogres from rural Austria look even wilder than their Galician counterparts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganis...e_Eastern_Alps

Similar outfits are still part of the religious (Catholic) festivals celebrated by the Yaqui and Mayo Indians of northwestern Mexico, and anthropologists have traced them back to pre-Hispanic times.





Galician mask


Yaqui pascola mask from northern Mexico

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Edith

Interesting, isn't it? I believe many of our European folk traditions, including the Catholic ones, are pre-Christian in origin (think of the Christmas tree, for example).

Such traditions were adopted by the Catholic church so as not to exclude the traditions of their converts, consolidating them into the events of the religious calendar.

[Edith]

Originally Posted by Brian

Such traditions were adopted by the Catholic church so as not to exclude the traditions of their converts, consolidating them into the events of the religious calendar.

Yes, Catholics have always been more adept at this than Protestants, which is why examples of religious syncretism called 'folk Catholicism' abound all over Latin America. But I find the examples from Galicia and Austria very interesting too. It seems these festivals, which are still mostly untouched by tourism or commercialization, do have a deeper meaning for many people. The article about Carnaval in Galicia is a case in point. Franco outlawed these traditions (perhaps because they were too 'pagan' for him) but luckily, they are back. I would love to see these festivities one day.

[Opacita]

Originally Posted by Brian

To most, though, it's all about the candy, which, as a parent, in moderation, is fine. I agree with Catavino that we don't need any more fat kids hopped up on sugar, but you know, kids should be afforded a little fun, so long as it doesn't go overboard.

I agree with you that candy in moderation is fine, but saying that for Halloween children should have an apple is like saying a child can go to Disney World and not ride on rollercoasters. Half the reason I loved Halloween so much as a child was not only to create the best costume in the world, which typically ended being Bum because I never planned enough in advanced, but also having a night of pure candy overdose. Is it healthy? No. Would I suggest it for the rest of the year? No. But I do believe the night of Halloween is a magical night that gives kids the slightest connection the unknown, and if wads of candy go with it, even better.

Candy, soda and crap in school I don't feel should be available. There is no reason why a child should be able to buy a can of coke when water or milk is just fine, but one night of pure gluttony is wonderful!

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Opacita

I agree with you that candy in moderation is fine, but saying that for Halloween children should have an apple is like saying a child can go to Disney World and not ride on rollercoasters.

Candy, soda and crap in school I don't feel should be available. There is no reason why a child should be able to buy a can of coke when water or milk is just fine, but one night of pure gluttony is wonderful!

The funny thing is mom never let me eat any apples that were put in my bag. She was afraid of the urban legend that some sick person stuffed razorblades into them.

We have always limited the amount of sweets that our children eat, so they tend to eat it very slowly because it's not that interesting to them. I'm pretty sure that they still have petrified Easter candy up in the cabinet!