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Old 22nd February 2010, 03:58 PM   #41
gary
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even if it had a negative effect on businesses, which it won't....
I think you're wrong on this one unless any ban is 100% enforced... were your statement to be as self evident as you seem to think there would be a queue of entrepreneurs clamouring to service the needs of non smoking folk across Spain....


Would people be able to smoke on terrazas? they do in the UK.

The ban is 100% enforced in the UK and pubs are struggling, some to do with the econiomic climate but many smokers, according to my friend in the trade, are electing to drink at home rather than be banished into the freezing cold with their pint - alcohol is also comparatively cheap when purchased from the supermarkets so there's a double whammy.

There were smoke free pubs and restaurants tried in the UK pre the ban, sadly most of them withered on the vine.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 04:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by greytop View Post
Interestingly the other is probably alcohol (and it may even overtake tobacco in the UK). Now banning the consumption of that would certainly hurt the pubs' survival rate. I guess we need a major re-education process over many years to change our attitudes to a lot of things. Meanwhile as I don't smoke or drink very much, I'll go on eating myself to death - I don't want to screw up the economy by living on a pension for too long.
Hehe, I think I'll do that too. Although I don't think there's any risk of economy going down because of my pension - at this rate I doubt I'll ever get one :P

The difference with alcohol is that, on its own, it doesn't harm bystanders. Whereas smoke does.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 02:48 AM   #43
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An article by EL País

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"Un millón de trabajadores del sector de la hostelería no tienen derecho a a elegir. No es aceptable que mujeres embarazadas, personas con asma u otras enfermedades se vean obligadas a respirar humo de tabaco mientras permanecen o trabajan en lugares públicos. No es aceptable que los clientes y usuarios de bares y restaurantes tengan que convivir en espacios insanos y perjudiciales para la salud"

Last edited by Pippa; 23rd February 2010 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 10:28 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greytop View Post
Interestingly the other is probably alcohol (and it may even overtake tobacco in the UK). Now banning the consumption of that would certainly hurt the pubs' survival rate. I guess we need a major re-education process over many years to change our attitudes to a lot of things. Meanwhile as I don't smoke or drink very much, I'll go on eating myself to death - I don't want to screw up the economy by living on a pension for too long.
More accurately: the mis-use of alcohol. Most consumers of alcohol do so without affecting their health - and indeed, there is much peer reviewed evidence that it can have beneficial effects.

However, the same is not true of smoking: all smoking is unhealthy.
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Old 23rd February 2010, 10:44 AM   #45
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I think we worry too much about some pubs having to close down due to the smoking ban. Even if it is true that the ban in the UK and elsewhere is causing closures, surely there`s more to it than the economy to consider.

Yes, some people will be put out of work, that`s life, but if it means those same people are healthier and get to live longer isn`t that the main issue? Besides which, the overall economy isn`t likely to suffer too much anyway if fewer people have to rely on the health service to care for them when they pick up smoking-related diseases.
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Old 24th February 2010, 11:00 AM   #46
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I was talking to an Italian woman who was visiting from Denmark a few months ago. She mentioned that the same smoking ban issue came up in Italy a few years back and smokers/small bar owners were up in arms about it too.

In the end, the smoking ban went into effect and everybody pretty much accepted it without issue or further complaint. Today, smoke-free bars are just as normal as a smoke-free Metro.

It seems that it was just the idea of taking away some people "rights" or "liberties" that had people in a furor.
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Old 24th February 2010, 12:47 PM   #47
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See what you've all started now!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-1908559.html
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Old 25th February 2010, 12:53 PM   #48
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Has anyone mentioned the way smoking makes everyone's clothes stink? I wouldn't care much if a new study proved it was false that passive smoking affected non-smokers health. I'd still want smoking in confined public places to remained banned so my clothes didn't stink.

Smokers say it's their right to smoke and it doesn't spoil other people's enjoyment. They're wrong.
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Old 25th February 2010, 04:30 PM   #49
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Hi Stephen,

You're right, the stink is obviously disgusting but in my opinion it's way behind the health issues as a powerful reason for the ban in enclosed spaces.

Have you read this fantastic letter (in Spanish) from a Spanish doctor to the Minister, published in El Mundo today?

It says loud and clear why Trinidad should mess around with Spaniards' health any longer. It sure puts her to shame.
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Old 27th February 2010, 03:16 PM   #50
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Trinidad Jiménez needs to get her act together. I fail to understand the delay in creating a law that more than 70% of the population supports.

It would be nice to be able to go to a bar and order a coffee without getting a smoke tapa served on the side. As it's next to impossible to do in Madrid, I've boycotted all places that allow smoking since October last year.

Beyond that, I'd like to think that Spain is a country that respects workers' rights. I know the Spanish are famous for ignoring their own rules all the time, but this time the new anti-smoking law needs to be put in place and enforced to the maximum, not respected a la española. Why do tax-paying employees need to be exposed to such an easily controllable environmental toxin? Where's the logic in putting a sign on the door of a bar that includes the words "Smoking damages your health and that of those around you" and "Smoking is permitted here" together? That's all well and good for people like me who can choose to enter the place or not based on that warning and information we have from being educated citizens, but not so hot for the people stuck inside there clocking up a 9 or 10-hour day for low wages.

It's acceptable here (or tolerated at least) to blow smoke in someone's face, but not to burp there. It's acceptable (tolerated) to smoke in a lift, but not to fart there. It's acceptable to burn tobacco in an enclosed public space where others are present, but my guess is that it wouldn't be to burn polystyrene, which, like burning tobacco, also emits toxic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (read: cancer-causing agents).

You can call a smoking ban nanny state governing all you want, but I think it's a hard case arguing for the law to continue in Spain exactly as it is.

Last edited by Grimace; 27th February 2010 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 03:22 PM   #51
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Health professionals have long urged a total ban, describing smoking as one of Spain's top public health problems that causes more than 50,000 deaths annually.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...consensus.html


And the thing is I wonder out of that figure how many deaths were due to passive smoking? How much is it placing a strain on the nation`s health resources? Consensus won`t work, not while so many believe in their `rights` to smoke wherever and whenever.
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