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Old 25th December 2006, 02:26 PM   #21
omeyas
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Originally Posted by eldeano View Post




By the way, I use Mozilla and, has been already documented, struggled with accented words. Now I just bring up the accented letters in Word and then cut and paste into the post.


I still find it far easier to go into Control Panel, Regoinal and Language, and set up a separate Spanish keyboard. Alt shift then simply swaps between your normal keyboard and a Spanish one. far easier than messing with alt numbers or cut and paste.
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Old 26th December 2006, 07:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by omeyas View Post
I still find it far easier to go into Control Panel, Regoinal and Language, and set up a separate Spanish keyboard. Alt shift then simply swaps between your normal keyboard and a Spanish one. far easier than messing with alt numbers or cut and paste.
this is also what I ended up doing after playing with all sorts of other add-ons. The one I have loaded is called "Spanish (International sort)" which to type accented vowels allows hitting the apostrophe key followed by the vowel you want to accent - couldn't be easier.
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Old 29th December 2006, 12:29 AM   #23
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More about the art of translating:

Edith Grossman is an award-winning Spanish to English literary translator. She is one of the most important translators of Latin American fiction in the past century, translating the works of Mario Vargas Llosa, Nobel laureate Gabriel García Márquez, Mayra Montero, Augusto Monterroso, Jaime Manrique, Julián Ríos and of Alvaro Mutis.
In a speech delivered at the 2003 PEN Tribute to Gabriel García Márquez, held in New York City on November 5, 2003 She explains her method:
"Fidelity is surely our highest aim, but a translation is not made with tracing paper. It is an act of critical interpretation. Let me insist on the obvious: Languages trail immense, individual histories behind them, and no two languages, with all their accretions of tradition and culture, ever dovetail perfectly. They can be linked by translation, as a photograph can link movement and stasis, but it is disingenuous to assume that either translation or photography, or acting for that matter, are representational in any narrow sense of the term. Fidelity is our noble purpose, but it does not have much, if anything, to do with what is called literal meaning. A translation can be faithful to tone and intention, to meaning. It can rarely be faithful to words or syntax, for these are peculiar to specific languages and are not transferable." Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Grossman
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Old 29th December 2006, 10:29 AM   #24
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More about the art of translating:

Edith Grossman is an award-winning Spanish to English literary translator. She is one of the most important translators of Latin American fiction in the past century, translating the works of Mario Vargas Llosa, Nobel laureate Gabriel García Márquez, Mayra Montero, Augusto Monterroso, Jaime Manrique, Julián Ríos and of Alvaro Mutis.
Hey, you're showing off now with all those links!
Here's a list of books translated by the chap I was talking about, Alejandro Pareja.

Last edited by omeyas; 29th December 2006 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 29th December 2006, 11:13 AM   #25
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Thanks for the list! Impressive!

BTW, I'll tell you a secret... I didn't provide any of those links, I just copied and pasted the quote from Wikipedia and the original links in the article were still intact!
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Old 29th December 2006, 11:22 AM   #26
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BTW, I'll tell you a secret... I didn't provide any of those links, I just copied and pasted the quote from Wikipedia and the original links in the article were still intact!
And there's me thinking I had taught you something!
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Old 29th December 2006, 11:42 AM   #27
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And there's me thinking I had taught you something!
Vamos a ver... I'm definitely going to give it a try!
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Old 29th December 2006, 09:58 PM   #28
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Edith,

I opened my presents on Christmas Day and, you're not going to believe this, I got Cien años de soledad. I couldn´t believe it, it was so uncanny. Anyway, I´ll read it after I´ve finished Papel moneda but I´m going a little slowly at the moment - what with Christmas and World Darts!
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Old 29th December 2006, 10:03 PM   #29
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Edith,

I opened my presents on Christmas Day and, you're not going to believe this, I got Cien años de soledad. I couldn´t believe it, it was so uncanny.
Uncanny indeed! What a coincidence.

Be prepared for a long and difficult read, and lots of José Arcadios. Some editions have a family tree in them to keep them apart!
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Old 30th December 2006, 06:11 AM   #30
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Not having a corner bookshop - and if I did the print would be in some squirley lettering I can't read - I make use of the Guttenberg project (Google it) to download some out of copyright books. In the Spanish section there are several from Cervantes to relatively modern writers. It's all grist to the learning mill.
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Old 30th December 2006, 01:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by omeyas View Post
I still find it far easier to go into Control Panel, Regoinal and Language, and set up a separate Spanish keyboard. Alt shift then simply swaps between your normal keyboard and a Spanish one. far easier than messing with alt numbers or cut and paste.
Yes, I agree this is by far the best and most natural way of typing accents. Many people are unaware of this facility. Its one of those Windows features that are hidden from view.

Another 'trick' I use is that MS Word's spell checker will happily work in Spanish (& many other languages). Good at catching the accents that you miss off (plenty in my case).
From Tools/Langauage/Set Language. Once it is set up, it will identify Spanish more or less as soon as you begin typing, even when the default language is English (or any other)
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Old 30th December 2006, 09:45 PM   #32
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I've just come across a phrase in the latest book, 'un cenicero robado al Hilton' - an ashtray stolen from the Hilton. I find it really confusing that it's robado a meaning stolen from - you'd think it should be robado de. It's not just with robado; there are other examples, many in football (see Numpty at the Match) which I find really confusing.
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Old 2nd January 2007, 10:15 AM   #33
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I've just come across a phrase in the latest book, 'un cenicero robado al Hilton' - an ashtray stolen from the Hilton. I find it really confusing that it's robado a meaning stolen from - you'd think it should be robado de.
And another. Yo le salvé la vida al Secretario - I saved the Minister´s life. I would have written as Yo le salvé la vida del Secretario. I know it's the personal a, but I still get confused.

Papel moneda was a little disappointing. I'm starting Harry Potter y el misterio del príncipe today so we´ll see what delights that holds.
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Old 4th January 2007, 12:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardksa View Post
Not having a corner bookshop - and if I did the print would be in some squirley lettering I can't read - I make use of the Guttenberg project (Google it) to download some out of copyright books. In the Spanish section there are several from Cervantes to relatively modern writers. It's all grist to the learning mill.
Great link thank you.
Jan
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Old 12th January 2007, 10:56 PM   #35
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I'm enjoying Harry Potter - always a good yarn. I've just come across the phrase Voldemort le robó la varita mágica a Morfin which means Voldemort stole Morfin´s magic wand. I would have put de Morfin.

Does anyone have a simple way of knowing when it's a and not de in these (and others in earlier posts) conditions?
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Old 13th January 2007, 05:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by eldeano View Post
I'm enjoying Harry Potter - always a good yarn. I've just come across the phrase Voldemort le robó la varita mágica a Morfin which means Voldemort stole Morfin´s magic wand. I would have put de Morfin.

Does anyone have a simple way of knowing when it's a and not de in these (and others in earlier posts) conditions?
Is this what hispanista was on about the other day? the 'a Morfin' being the prepositional phrase clarifying le robó. Already it is confusing because it comes across as to him/her he robbed.

hispanista said:

"Grammatically, the “a” is the preposition that introduces the prepositional phrase “a Manuel” that tells/explains/clarifies to whom the “le” is referring. It serves the same purpose as the following, though I’m willing to bet these don’t bother you at all:

Miguel le explicó el problema a Manuel.
Ana le contó la historia a su madre.
Ana les dio el dinero a sus hijos.

(Perhaps these tend to make sense to us because the verb and the preposition are understood as being separate.)"

Which I found useful and I'm guessing that this is the same.
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Old 15th January 2007, 02:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tad View Post
Is this what hispanista was on about the other day? the 'a Morfin' being the prepositional phrase clarifying le robó. Already it is confusing because it comes across as to him/her he robbed.

hispanista said:

"Grammatically, the “a” is the preposition that introduces the prepositional phrase “a Manuel” that tells/explains/clarifies to whom the “le” is referring. It serves the same purpose as the following, though I’m willing to bet these don’t bother you at all:

Miguel le explicó el problema a Manuel.
Ana le contó la historia a su madre.
Ana les dio el dinero a sus hijos.

(Perhaps these tend to make sense to us because the verb and the preposition are understood as being separate.)"

Which I found useful and I'm guessing that this is the same.
Right, "le" is an indirect object. It can be clarified through the prepositional phrase of "a alguien." As I understand it, the prepositional phrase is just used to clarify. For example:

"Miguel le explicó el problema a Manuel" makes more sense on its own than "Miguel le explicó el problema" even though the latter it's still correct (you could even say "Miguel se lo explicó" if it is known what he was explaining and to whom). For that matter, since it's not a reflexive verb, you could leave out the indirect object if you have the prepositional phrase: "Miguel explicó el problema a Manuel."

What gets confusing for native English speakers is when the indirect object is not a le, but a lo or la. For example:

"A mi mujer le aburren las telenovelas"
"A mi mujer la aburro con mis bromas"

(I'm not trying to derail the thread, just thought I'd contribute on this little bit)
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Old 15th January 2007, 02:32 PM   #38
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Thanks for your help with this, guys.

I'm pretty comfortable with the concept of the personal a, but in the expression I gave it seemed weird. I suppose it was because Voldemort stole the magic wand from Morfin that I felt a de would be more appropriate than the a. I've just got to see more examples and then I may be a little more comfortable with it. Other such examples were in another thread Numpty at the Match.
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Old 16th January 2007, 11:57 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edith View Post
Uncanny indeed! What a coincidence.

Be prepared for a long and difficult read, and lots of José Arcadios. Some editions have a family tree in them to keep them apart!
OK, Harry Potter's back in the bookcase - what a dark ending.

Edith, you've convinced me. I'll start on Cien años de soledad tonight. Look out for regular updates and grammatical 'hurdles'.
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Old 17th January 2007, 11:00 PM   #40
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Thought I'd give an insight into life as a beginner reader, eldeano.
I have read a few short stories in one of those 'side by side' books but always end up reading the English version (you look to check a word and end up reading a whole page).
Next (of course) was the ubiquitous 'Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal'- not too bad, but as it followed the film quite closely I'm sure I was working from memory. Then some of Isaac Asimov's robot stories, but I knew these so well from my teenage years that I could remember even the smallest detail -so I kind of skimmed over the Spanish.

I started a few childrens books but the language didn't seem really any easier than an adult's book (excluding Booker Prize winning type material)

The first and only book I got through pat was oddly 'Un cadáver en la biblioteca' by Agatha Christie. I suppose in essence these type of plots are fairly straightforward; the slueth asks questions to everybody, goes here, goes there -that is why he did this, that is where she could have been etc. Having said that I found it a bit of a chore getting through it.

Last week a book turned upon my doorstep from Amazon entitled ¡Cómo Molo! by Elvira Lindo about a character called Manolito Gafotas. I had ordered this several months ago and had completely forgotten about it. Someone had recommended it on some site or another as a good starter book.

Let me give you the first sentence of the book:

El otro día estábamos jugando a un rescate en un descampao que hay al lado de la cárcel de Carabanchel, cuando un coche paró con un frenazo tan brutal que le patinaron las cuatro ruedas.

Fairly straightforward I suppose, however, my translation went something like:

The other day we were playing in a rescate in a descampao hmm, rescate- probably some sort of playground-but it's in a descampao, well sounds something like campo;bit of country? field? well I'm not going to look it up, it's not important. I'm pretty sure carcél is prison, so it's next to a prison. ..when a car stopped with such frenazo (force?) oh frenar, is that to brake? When a car stopped with such brakiness, heavy braking (tan brutal) that the four wheels skidded. hmm patinar is to skate must be the same word. God I'm making heavy work of this- the overall situation is clear, lets just get on with it...mind you, use of a progressive past rather than jugábamos, guess that emphasises the immediacy of the situation, yes, that'll be it, I suppose estábamos jugando- straightaway you're looking for something to happen, to follow on, I mean jugábamos could be; we used to play.

Lets just check that again, yeah, I can live without the exact meaning of rescate and descampao.
paró- isn't that used with a reflexive pronoun sometimes for emphasis? that would be se paró, I mean it seems like it should be emphasised here, I'll have to look into that.
....que le patinaron las quatro ruedas. Wait a minute where does that le come from. To him/her/you, but it's a car! whats going on? I don't know, I do know I'm a bit tired-I'll leave the next sentence until tomorrow night.

That's my problem, even if the overall meaning is reasonably clear I get bogged down in detail.
Hope you make faster progress with your latest!
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