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Old 10th November 2007, 07:18 PM   #41
Jules
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... I get the impression from the tone of some of the posts in this thread that we am being held responsible for curtailing everyone's civil liberties here on the forum by asking for the simple courtesy of not posting copyright images in posts. ..

Other than that, my earlier refined thoughts on this (9 posts above this one) still stand.

I don't think anyone (including me) ever denied the good sense of your refined lists of do's and don'ts.
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Old 10th November 2007, 09:05 PM   #42
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I'm happy to join in a debate about the ridiculousness of worldwide copyright law and it's occasional application, but I'm not very interested in joining in further debate over whether or not we have the right to apply it here as we deem sensible, cautious, and appropriate.
The forum is a great place to be and I would not like to see it gone, although we do have a community here the forum is not the property of the community but of the (soon to be) Limited Company that owns the forum.

When my kids friends came to play at our house my house rules applied.

I for one have no problem with the company rules and am happy to abide
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Old 10th November 2007, 09:09 PM   #43
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I agree with Greytop - see my first post on this - and my rant was directed at the 'copyright lobby', certainly not at you. Like I said, don't shoot the messenger for breaking the news. If I ran a website of my own I would have done exactly the same, a regañadientes, but nevertheless.
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Old 10th November 2007, 09:32 PM   #44
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I agree with Greytop - see my first post on this - and my rant was directed at the 'copyright lobby', certainly not at you. Like I said, don't shoot the messenger for breaking the news. If I ran a website of my own I would have done exactly the same, a regañadientes, but nevertheless.
As was my rant - though in the haste of preparing it, I admit it may have missed its target.
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Old 10th November 2007, 10:04 PM   #45
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...and some of my replies may have been affected by a tenacious bout of flu that is making me very grouchy!
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Old 10th November 2007, 10:14 PM   #46
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...and some of my replies may have been affected by a tenacious bout of flu that is making me very grouchy!
It was all a misunderstanding and I for one am not blaming you at all for protecting your website .

Perhaps you should take a nice warm grog , snuggle down on the couch and let the flu run its course!
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Old 10th November 2007, 11:09 PM   #47
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Some of these publications had gone out of print decades ago. And doing historical research often means you have to read and re-read your sources, scribbling down notes in the margins and highlingting important paragraphs with a yellow felt marker. I finished my thesis at home so I needed the sources. In my spare time I still do some occasional research, and I still work in this way, borrowing books from the library and copying parts of them for further use at home. I simply haven't got the time to go back to the library every time I want to re-read a source. The world should focus on real problems like terrorism and drugs instead of hounding people who are simply interested in knowledge.
It's not like I haven't done my share of photocopying for my academic pursuits, just not whole textbooks. Terrorism and drugs are bad but seem like an incongruent focus shift or a rationalization for copying whole textbooks because it is too time-intensive to make trips to the library everytime those references are needed.
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Old 10th November 2007, 11:23 PM   #48
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It's not like I haven't done my share of photocopying for my academic pursuits, just not whole textbooks. Terrorism and drugs are bad but seem like an incongruent focus shift or a rationalization for copying whole textbooks because it is too time-intensive to make trips to the library every time those references are needed.
This is supposed to relate to Ben and his request that we abstain from using copyrighted material inappropriately. I don't think we should wig out if we hold off on cartoon characters for a while nor should we wait until tampering with copyrighted materials is the worse problem in society before we abstain. Especially if Ben asks. He has been a relaxed forum owner, imposing practically nothing on us up until now. Doesn't that entitle him some trust from us?
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Old 11th November 2007, 01:56 AM   #49
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I'm struggling, however, to live without quipping.
Please don't stop quipping Eldeano. Your verbal jousts with Tad, ValenciaSon and Gary, to name but a few, were one of (if not the main) reasons why I keep/kept visiting the forum, both as a guest and now as a member.
To me it is what gives this forum its warmth and sets it apart from other sites.
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Old 11th November 2007, 11:09 AM   #50
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Please don't stop quipping Eldeano. Your verbal jousts with Tad, ValenciaSon and Gary, to name but a few, were one of (if not the main) reasons why I keep/kept visiting the forum, both as a guest and now as a member.
To me it is what gives this forum its warmth and sets it apart from other sites.
Evidently this is going to now come up as well and requires clarification too before this also gets out of hand!

As Eldeano knows, no one banned quipping! It was however suggested to moderators that recently a lot of threads in the Spain and Spanish sections of the forum had a habit of going hopelessly off topic very quickly.

People would come to the forum with a useful question in one of these areas, the question might get one or two answers, then before anyone else got a look in a huge quipping fest might develop, which: a) means the thread goes off topic and it is unlikely anyone else will add more useful answers (so we all loose out on potentially valuable info), and b) the forum looks cliquey to new-comers (and webmasters tend to agree that forums that are perceived to be overly cliquey do not have a good survival rate).

Both these factors stifle forum growth, and I think we'd all like to see the forum continue to grow and flourish.

So, the suggestion made by me to moderators was that we try to keep the quipping/jokey exchanges to a minimum in the Spain and Spanish sections, but that anything goes in the 'El Rastro' section of the forum. That way the forum stays very useful and fun all at the same time.

Once again, I'd like to say that this is all in the interests of keeping the forum alive and well. Evey week I do a database backup to make sure that the forum should survive in case of server crashes. Every time forum software updates are announced I take a morning out to upgrade. These measures are designed to keep the forum going into the future, and my recent requests about copyright images and keeping the Spain and Spanish sections more 'on-topic' are just the same: they are measures put into place to make sure the forum exists and thrives into the future, and stays a fun, useful place for Spain and Spanish lovers to hang out and pool useful information.

Have a great Sunday
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Old 11th November 2007, 01:01 PM   #51
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The joys of being a CEO of a limited company, eh...
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Old 11th November 2007, 01:48 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Tobyc View Post
Please don't stop quipping Eldeano. Your verbal jousts with Tad, ValenciaSon and Gary, to name but a few, were one of (if not the main) reasons why I keep/kept visiting the forum, both as a guest and now as a member.
To me it is what gives this forum its warmth and sets it apart from other sites.

Thanks for your kind words, Tob.


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As Eldeano knows, no one banned quipping!

Ben, you are quite right and no-one said that you had. For the record, I have completely and consistently agreed with your stance on the copyrighting issue. I would not want to do anything that might land you in legal hot water.

As you know, I was less enthusiastic about the quipping issue but have ensured that I have not infringed the new guidelines. I don't necessarily agree but that's just my pretty insignificant view. What I have noticed over the past few days is that I have read a post, automatically prepared a 'typical' reply (which may have included a quip) and then remembered to check what section of the forum I'm in and, more often than not, didn't then submit the reply. The spontaneity having been lost, I didn't then consider putting the reply in the Whiteboard section.

I must admit to being a little down about the events of the past days but expect that time will be the healer and that over the course of the next few weeks I will pick up my level of participation.

Ben, please don't take this as a dig. You were right to express your concerns and ask us to observe your suggestions, which is what I have done. This is a great site and it's thanks to you.

Que tengas buen día.
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Old 11th November 2007, 02:05 PM   #53
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Thanks Eldeano. And remember, this isn't a sort of blanket ban on humour in the Spain and Spanish sections, but jokes followed by more useful info, rather than 5 more jokes, will do a lot of good for the forum in the long run!
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:48 AM   #54
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I emphasis with you Ben. What a good job you have intelligent and understanding people here. As you know, I've been running forums for years and have had similar problems - mine didn't end up so well though.

I introduced a friend to using my forum as a way for her to make new friends in Spain, initially timid to post and easily upset with the slightest post that appeared to criticise her, she soon found her confidence, and with another two forum members, (who she met on one of my regular forum get-togethers) started to turn every serious enquiry into another opportunity to joke and have fun with her online buddies.

When I started to get complaints from other members, and could see that other people were stopping posting, I tried to solve the problem by adding a 'general chat' type forum and asked these three, very politely and privately, if they could put their 'chit chat' posts in there. I explained that I am very flexible about some forum drift and the odd joke of quip - it makes the forum warmer, as someone here said - but posting message after message of joke responses was understandably upsetting the original poster, and putting others off from joining in, especially new members as it was becoming far to 'clicky'
I thought they would understand. I was wrong. Whilst two of the trio just desisted in posting altogether, the 'friend' went on the war-path and years later still does things to undermine me or my husband! It's very upsetting as I was only trying to do my best for the good of all... I run these forums as a hobby to help out ex-pats in my area - I nearly gave it up because of this experience!

On the copyright issue. Another of my members decided she would set up her own forum for the same specific area I have mine for - I've not got a problem with that, she is perfectly entitled - but I did object when she started to use the pm facility on my site to ask my members to join her forum. (again I received emails of complaint) I asked her to stop and she did, but then she started copying and pasting whole forum posts (including images) onto her site, she also copied local information that I had spent so much of my time collating for my members, and pasted it on her site as if it were hers, without even a mention of where it came from. She didn't even have the intelligence to try to alter it slightly!

Had she asked, I would have let her use this information if she put a link back or mentioned where it came from - I don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?

In the end, I noticed that she had also copied whole pages of other professional websites, so I warned her that she was breaking copyright laws and that she risked being prosecuted - not by me, but I was sure these 'bigger fish' wouldn't hesitate. She finally got the message and took them all off, but again I gained an enemy for my troubles.

Thankfully, I don't seem to have this problem any more - my members now seem as reasonable and understanding as yours.

My new avatar is purchased b.t.w.

Last edited by landlady; 12th November 2007 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 12th November 2007, 11:14 AM   #55
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Thanks very much for the input, it is really nice to hear the point of view of another forum owner who has addressed some of these issues. It stops me feeling and sounding like a voice in the dark!
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Old 12th November 2007, 02:43 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by landlady View Post
she also copied local information that I had spent so much of my time collating for my members, and pasted it on her site as if it were hers, without even a mention of where it came from. She didn't even have the intelligence to try to alter it slightly!
I can imagine why you felt angry. Copying someone else's stuff and claiming it's yours, this sounds very much like plagiarism! A very serious issue indeed. Whether you are writing a research paper, writing an article for your local newspaper, or running a website, always ALWAYS cite your sources, and don't plagiarize. If found out, it will make you look like a fool.
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Old 14th November 2007, 01:15 AM   #57
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If found out, it will make you look like a fool.
´You´ refers to the plagiarists, of course.
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Old 14th November 2007, 02:51 AM   #58
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Ben, have you registered "Notes from Spain" yet?
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Old 14th November 2007, 09:54 AM   #59
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In what respect?
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Old 14th November 2007, 04:39 PM   #60
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In what respect?
As a trade mark, as part of transforming NFS into a limited company. You don't want someone ripping-off the name for a similar business.
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