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Old 3rd December 2007, 03:03 AM   #41
Trina
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Default Question about "se"

Hi,

I see that the last post on this list was over a year ago, but I'm just starting the intermediate level so here I am. I have a question about one of Marina's constructions in the podcast:

"como es que se te occurio venir a Espana?"

I'm wondering what purpose the "se" serves in this sentence. And while I'm at it, how do I type accents here?

Thanks!

Trina
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Old 3rd December 2007, 08:34 AM   #42
Ben
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Hi Trina, I shall forward this post to Marina to explain the 'se', unless someone gets here first, but in the mean time, accents info is here
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Old 3rd December 2007, 12:07 PM   #43
richardksa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Hi Trina, I shall forward this post to Marina to explain the 'se', unless someone gets here first, but in the mean time, accents info is here
Ben, this is asked so often. Maybe it should be sticky.

And just to see myself corrected could the "se" mean "it" as in "how is-it that it to-you occurred-to-you to come to Spain" ie, Why did it occur to you that coming to Spain would be a good idea?
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Old 3rd December 2007, 01:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by richardksa View Post
Ben, this is asked so often. Maybe it should be sticky.
It is! In the Español section.
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Old 3rd December 2007, 08:11 PM   #45
Marina
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Default SE explanation

Hi Trina,

Here is the explanation... probably you expected something more simple, but it has actually taken me some time of research.

"¿Cómo es que se te ocurrió venir a España?"


When ocurrir is used with the meaning of "to come up with an idea" it has to have both pronouns (se+personal pronoun):

Se me ocurre una idea
Se te ocurre una idea
Se le ocurre una idea
Se nos ocurre una idea
Se os ocurre una idea
Se les ocurre una idea


One of the common uses of the verb ocurrir means to happen.
Ej: Ocurrió hace dos años.

But ocurrir also has a pronominal use.
A pronominal verb, is a verb that must always go together with a reflexive pronoun. For example to sit down, sentarse, is a pronominal verb:

Ej 1: Prohibido sentarse en la hierba.
Ej 2: No te sientes en la silla, está sucia.

Ok. Our original example is even more complex than that, as the pronominal use of ocurrir, which means to come up with an idea, needs two pronouns, and it is called a "verbo doblemente pronominal". (If you like, you can read more about it in this word reference thread).

Last edited by Marina; 4th December 2007 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 03:59 AM   #46
Trina
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Default "Se" explanation

Hi Marina,

Wow, thank you so much for the clear and detailed explanation. Who
would have thought that such a thing as a "verbo doblemente pronominal" even existed?! The explanation is very helpful since it was bothering me to see those two pronouns in a row. (I would probably be better off focusing on more basic issues, but I can't help myself...) Anyhow, I'll take this opportunity again to thank you SO much for the wonderful podcasts and worksheets. I can't think of a more fun and convenient way to learn.

Trina
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Old 4th December 2007, 07:31 PM   #47
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Hi Trina,

I didn't know either that "verbos doblemente pronominales" existed. So in the end your question was useful for both of us.

Thanks very much for your feedback
Marina
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Old 4th December 2007, 07:54 PM   #48
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I've been telling everybody for ages that 'se' is evil
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Old 3rd June 2008, 07:11 PM   #49
Chris White
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As was Trina, I'm a bit of a laggard in posting here (only 2 years late), but I just now reached the intermediate level. Sort of. I was somewhat surprised to read the first two pages of comments and not have anyone express what I was thinking - namely that there is a pretty big gap between beginner and intermediate. With the beginner podcasts, I was able to understand almost 100%, whereas with the intermediate podcasts I sometimes find myself lost for entire paragraphs. Partly its the increased speed of course (Marina has a tendency to speed up at times), but also the vocabulary expands pretty substantially. Having just completed #5 (La Familia), I can say that I always get the gist of the conversation, but it definitely helps to review the vocab and grammar page of the worksheet first.
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