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Old 15th March 2009, 11:03 PM   #1
Wildefish
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Hola

Yo sé que estoy leyendo un libro demasiado dificil para mi nivel pero me encanta el foto sobre la portada... Pues, necesito ayudar con algunas frases. En concretamente, con las palabra subrayada y negrita pero te doy las frases completas para ayudar con el contexto.

Muchas muchas gracias!

1) Con una tierna languidez de caña verde

2) Las Dura es una aldea misérrima, sin comunicaciones.

3) Se le antojó que Joaquín tenía un tonillo irónico pero la cara de palomo
de su cuñado era inalterable.


4) Amiga de trapos, alegre, desparpajada

5) Eso era aquella viejecita como una pasa empolvada
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Old 15th March 2009, 11:39 PM   #2
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misérrima = extremely poor
pasa empolvada = powdered (cosmetic) raisin or prune

The rest are unknown to me.
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Old 16th March 2009, 12:07 AM   #3
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Now, by reasoning and "haciendo memoria" (how can I say "haciendo memoria" in English?):

languidez de caña verde = languid (or lackadaisical or dreamy) as green reeds.
[I suppose the writer is playing here with "tierna languidez" and the image of a bed of young and green reeds that are gently rocking with the breeze.

cara de palomo = with this and other birds, it's often used to describe people with "birdish" features, like little and widely separated eyes, pointed noses, etc. Also to describe expressionless visages.

amiga de trapos = I didn't find any literary instance and just a few examples. Just as an educated shot in the dark: confidant, close, intimate friend. But having more context would help.
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Old 16th March 2009, 09:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Now, by reasoning and "haciendo memoria" (how can I say "haciendo memoria" in English?):
racking my brains / trying hard to remember perhaps
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Old 16th March 2009, 10:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastephen View Post
racking my brains / trying hard to remember perhaps
to rack one's brains = devanarse los sesos / (quebrarse/romperse la cabeza -in some regions-)/ quemarse el cerebro (regional)

haciendo memoria = ordering carefully thoughts and memories and reasoning on them to match what seem to be disparage, blurry or isolated data and shape that data into a coherent, likely or provable piece of information (the same process through which one thinks: "when she was born I've just taken the Corolla from the agent and I don't remember driving him in that car so, when she was born I already knew him but we hadn't already made a carpool and came to work together... ")

Last edited by aleCcowaN; 22nd March 2009 at 10:15 PM. Reason: spelling & grammar, what else could it be?
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Old 16th March 2009, 11:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
to rack's ones brains = devanarse los sesos / (quebrarse/romperse la cabeza -in some regions-)/ quemarse el cerebro (regional)

haciendo memoria = ordering carefully thoughts and memories and reasoning on them to match what seem to be disparage, blurry or isolated data and shape that data into a coherent, likely or provable piece of information (the same process through which one thinks: "when she was born I've just taken the Corolla from the agent and I don't remember driving him in that car so, when she was born I already knew him but we hadn't already made a carpool and came to work together... ")
How about "marshalling your thoughts"? Doesn't quite cover the aspect of collating your memories, but other than that I can't think of a succint equivalent in English right now.

Anyway, here is some more input on this one:


memoria

Main Entry:memoriaFunction:feminine nounLanguage:Spanish1 : memory <de memoria : by heart> <hacer memoria : to try to remember> <traer a la memoria : to call to mind>2 recuerdo : remembrance, memory <su memoria perdurará para siempre : his memory will live forever>3 : report <memoria annual : annual report>4 memorias feminine plural noun : memoirs
http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/memoria



OSD:

hacer memoria: trata de hacer memoria try to remember o (formal) recall; seguro que te acuerdas, haz memoria of course you can remember, think hard;


and Word Reference:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=288151
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Old 17th March 2009, 12:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastephen View Post
How about "marshalling your thoughts"? Doesn't quite cover the aspect of collating your memories, but other than that I can't think of a succint equivalent in English right now.

Anyway, here is some more input on this one:


memoria

Main Entry:memoriaFunction:feminine nounLanguage:Spanish1 : memory <de memoria : by heart> <hacer memoria : to try to remember> <traer a la memoria : to call to mind>2 recuerdo : remembrance, memory <su memoria perdurará para siempre : his memory will live forever>3 : report <memoria annual : annual report>4 memorias feminine plural noun : memoirs
http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/memoria



OSD:

hacer memoria: trata de hacer memoria try to remember o (formal) recall; seguro que te acuerdas, haz memoria of course you can remember, think hard;


and Word Reference:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=288151
Thanks, Graham! I think all that together make a good definition:

"Try to remember" or "think hard" say the dictionaries, and "marshalling one's thoughts", with marshall as "pull together" or "make ready for use". I would say "marshalling one's memories, fostering recollection".
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Old 17th March 2009, 12:12 AM   #8
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Have to admit "jog my memory" (from word reference) feels closest to what "hacer memoria" seems to be being used as by aleCcowaN. I.e. an informal way to describe a logical deduction to something you already know.
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Old 17th March 2009, 01:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildefish View Post
Have to admit "jog my memory" (from word reference) feels closest to what "hacer memoria" seems to be being used as by aleCcowaN. I.e. an informal way to describe a logical deduction to something you already know.
I undestand that as "refrescarle la memoria (a alguien)", and one cannot "refrescarse la memoria (a sí mismo)" but "hacer memoria" is a wider concept that involves common sense "techniques", and this may include a deal of "jogging our own memory". Never mind, when both languages don't match exactly, that makes learning them pretty interesting.

By the way, could you give us the name of the writer. Not having his/her nationality makes difficult to find out more. [I thought it was from Southern Spain or Colombia, but there are no real clues to support that]. More context around "amiga de trapo" would also help.
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Old 21st March 2009, 10:58 PM   #10
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Female spanish writer, Carmen Laforet. I believe the book was written during the 50s if that helps.
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Old 21st March 2009, 11:34 PM   #11
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Oh tengo otro para vosotros...

Victor pensaba, cuerdamente, que un amancebamiento así a las claras tenía tantos inconvenientes como el matrimonio

Gracias!
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Old 21st March 2009, 11:52 PM   #12
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cuerdamente = con buen juicio, atinadamente, "with sound judgment"
amancebamiento = cuando una pareja se relaciona sexualmente con frecuencia pero no convive bajo un mismo techo, o cuya relación es más superficial que la que hay en un concubinato, o no se espera que evolucione, como en el noviazgo.

Carmen Laforet nació en Barcelona pero creció en Canarias (cuando dije España meridional, había pensado en Canarias, pero no quería hacerme el preciso). Así que, ya lo ven, tuve suerte
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Old 22nd March 2009, 12:26 AM   #13
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"amancebamiento"

This is part of the reason why I love spanish, a single word to express a fairly complex idea. It is such a rich language.


Otra pregunta como eso estaba un buen adivina por qué pensaste en España meridional, que palabra te hizo pensar así?
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Old 22nd March 2009, 02:17 AM   #14
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No sé si "amancebamiento" es una idea tan compleja. Es una forma de definir eso que la gente explica como "ahora estamos juntos/ nos juntamos" o "tengo una mujer/un hombre en tal o cual lugar". Yo diría que el término tiene una connotación negativa, y estoy seguro de que nadie lo usaría para describir su relación.

El usar el término "amancebamiento" es como "mecanizar" la relación; es como decir "me dedico al fornicio con quien estoy amancebado" en lugar de decir "con mi pareja disfrutamos plenamente de nuestro amor", un caso de descripción sesgada como los famosos chistes:

El empleado llegó tarde. El jefe sufrió una demora.
El empleado pierde el tiempo leyendo el diario. El jefe se está informando.
El empleado le pone los cuernos a su mujer con una tía y parece que viene en serio. El jefe tenía un affair que se convirtió en el más intenso romance.

Cambiando de tema, me hizo sospechar los orígenes que dije el vocabulario "castizo", la combinación de "tonillo" y "viejecita" y esas descripciones que terminan en comparaciones, como si describir así fuera obligatorio, además de la vivacidad general, más propia de climas calurosos, o del salero propio del mediodía de España.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 02:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildefish View Post
This is part of the reason why I love spanish, a single word to express a fairly complex idea. It is such a rich language.
English is a very powerful language (having so much from so many languages, plus all the new terms that are constantly being created), but Spanish has its own charm too: not long ago, someone who was trying to write a letter in Spanish talking about her recent labour in the hospital, and she asked me how to say a long sentence that had something like this in it: "... women who have just given birth and those who are about to". My answer was "parturientas". Just one word. She was a bit shocked to find out that we actually had a word to describe precisely all that.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 09:08 AM   #16
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In a low tech way, 15 X for an interesting thread. It's this sort of stuff keeps me coming back.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 09:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildefish View Post
Female spanish writer, Carmen Laforet. I believe the book was written during the 50s if that helps.
¿Nada?
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Old 22nd March 2009, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus1907 View Post
...she asked me how to say a long sentence that had something like this in it: "... women who have just given birth and those who are about to". My answer was "parturientas". Just one word. She was a bit shocked to find out that we actually had a word to describe precisely all that.
Yep, in English we'd have to make do with two: perinatal women.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 10:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastephen View Post
Yep, in English we'd have to make do with two: perinatal women.
Except that you do not use that in English. You have antenatal clinics, postnatal wards, perinatal period, but do not usually refer to perinatal women (at least in England)
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Old 22nd March 2009, 11:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippa View Post
Except that you do not use that in English. You have antenatal clinics, postnatal wards, perinatal period, but do not usually refer to perinatal women (at least in England)
Perhaps not in everyday lay terms, but it is the accepted term in medical terminology.

[Edit: From her background in medicine, Pippa has clarified that the term is only used in academic medical contexts]

To quote just one example showing its use in context:
Opinions vary about the best approach for the provision of these services: ranging from a traditional integrative approach that involves strengthening existing generic community mental health teams and other services, to stand-alone specialist services which specifically address the needs of perinatal women.
from A survey of specialist perinatal mental health services in England

Last edited by gastephen; 22nd March 2009 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Extra information
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