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Old 16th June 2006, 02:37 AM   #21
pablo
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I concur with Alan. Good points, all of 'em.
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Old 16th June 2006, 11:46 AM   #22
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I thought that'd rattle the Mac-enthusiasts' cages You see how I can recognise the benefits in using a Mac at the same time as being an open source advocate?

You should see some of the things that Linux is doing these days. Look at http://appdb.winehq.org/appimage.php?id=2391 and http://art.gnome.org/images/screensh...deoOnGnome.jpg to see what I mean. These are both my screenshots.

Of course, I'm doing these things to push it. I don't play transparent games or watch videos on the side of a cube . . .

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Old 16th June 2006, 01:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
If people started using OS X, the manufacturers would support it. And the same goes for Linux.
OTOH, I think that Linux driver support is wonderful at the moment. 2 weeks ago, a client's linux mail server went down in brilliant blaze of glory, which we eventually determined to be a motherboard failure. We replaced the motherboard, ram, and CPU, all different than what was in the machine before, and the thing booted, recognized the hardware, and carried on as if nothing had happened! If you've ever done that with a Windows server, you'll quickly realize that it's next to impossible to do that. 8 times out of 10, it's a reload of the OS.

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Originally Posted by Alan
Linux is also excellent, but has a steep learning curve at the moment, and the programmers who program it don't listen to Joe Average. They'd rather cut off their right arm than remove some options to make something easier to use.
I agree about Linux's viability. It's not, in my opinion, quite ready for the workstation desktop, because there are support issues.

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It's better than Windows for security, and it's a lot cheaper. Mac still leads the way because it has the security already, but it is still a lot more expensive.
I would propose, though, if Mac were the market leader, then people would be working diligently on writing viruses and malware to exploit it.

I will tell you, though, that I am hacked off that Microsoft has now decided to provide their own Antivirus and Antispyware package to help protect the vulnerabilities on their own desktop os. Howsabout just plugging the holes, Microsoft?

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Time will bring a weaker Microsoft, opening the market up to competitors. However, more and more people are switching to other operating systems, and the open source community is forcing everyone to interoperate. Moving away from Windows is not the worst decision you could make.
It will be interesting to see how Bill Gates' stepping down will affect Microsoft, whether it will reinforce them or cause them to just fade away.
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Old 16th June 2006, 01:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I thought that'd rattle the Mac-enthusiasts' cages You see how I can recognise the benefits in using a Mac at the same time as being an open source advocate?

You should see some of the things that Linux is doing these days. Look at http://appdb.winehq.org/appimage.php?id=2391 and http://art.gnome.org/images/screensh...deoOnGnome.jpg to see what I mean. These are both my screenshots.

Of course, I'm doing these things to push it. I don't play transparent games or watch videos on the side of a cube . . .

Alan
One other thing- I'm not anti-linux or anti-mac. In fact, I have a Linux server on my network at home.

I'm an IT consultant whose real-world clients use 99% Windows boxes. I would also propose that until Mac boxes come down in price, the small business owner will have a hard time justifying the purchase price when comparing against the cheaper Microsoft-based PC. I understand total cost of ownership over the years, but getting service on Macs in smaller towns can involve several hours of driving to the nearest big city, and paying high prices.
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Old 16th June 2006, 01:21 PM   #25
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I would propose, though, if Mac were the market leader, then people would be working diligently on writing viruses and malware to exploit it.
Yes, absolutely. But we're talking about the way that the systems have been built. Vista is going to be a BIG improvement on XP, because it supposedly has been built with that in mind. But Mac and Linux are both Unix based and have an advantage over the way that Windows operates. Both operating systems are built from many thousands of smaller programs which work together. Only the programs that need access to specific parts of the system get access to them. Windows (XP) is built upon larger programs, leaving more room for exploitation. I can't see Vista differing too much from this with the exception that permissions will be required to perform certain actions.

But anyway, Mac being the market leader is NOT the best way to go. We need diverse operating systems to keep the virus writers at bay. If there were 10 OSs with equal market share then any particular virus could only affect 10% of machines. Microsoft will stay, Linux and Mac will get a fair share of the market, and we will probably see more OSs like Solaris appearing.
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Old 16th June 2006, 02:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
But anyway, Mac being the market leader is NOT the best way to go. We need diverse operating systems to keep the virus writers at bay. If there were 10 OSs with equal market share then any particular virus could only affect 10% of machines. Microsoft will stay, Linux and Mac will get a fair share of the market, and we will probably see more OSs like Solaris appearing.
You're probably quite right.

Concerning the need to approve changes to the Vista system by root, it's something that's quite easy to turn off. I certainly turned it off when setting my pc up. It's bloody annoying to get the administrator login screen asking for approval when I wanted to configure my system.
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Old 16th June 2006, 02:38 PM   #27
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Yet Mac and Linux seem to be able to cope without it getting annoying . . .
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Old 16th June 2006, 03:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
You see how I can recognise the benefits in using a Mac at the same time as being an open source advocate?
Alan
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Have to agree I use Moodle and Mambo - both open source content managements systems
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Old 16th June 2006, 04:06 PM   #29
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Have to agree I use Moodle and Mambo - both open source content managements systems
Both of those are quite as hackable as any asp .net site that isn't locked down.

I'm kind of a Joomla man these days. Just did a migration from Mambo to Joomla for a client, and I'm in love with it.
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Old 16th June 2006, 05:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Both of those are quite as hackable as any asp .net site that isn't locked down.

I'm kind of a Joomla man these days. Just did a migration from Mambo to Joomla for a client, and I'm in love with it.

will check it out, thanks
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Old 17th June 2006, 02:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Yet Mac and Linux seem to be able to cope without it getting annoying . . .
Yeah, Mac user here, but I wouldn't turn that feature off in Vista if I were using it, seems like you are just opening yourself up to all the vulnerabilities the OS has been plagued with. I don't even use my computer as an Admin user on a regular basis -- I make myself a standard user and anything that needs Admin access it prompts me. I have valuable data (passwords, credit card info, etc) on my system, and I want the best security possible. Typing in a username and password is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
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Old 17th June 2006, 03:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo
Yeah, Mac user here, but I wouldn't turn that feature off in Vista if I were using it, seems like you are just opening yourself up to all the vulnerabilities the OS has been plagued with. I don't even use my computer as an Admin user on a regular basis -- I make myself a standard user and anything that needs Admin access it prompts me. I have valuable data (passwords, credit card info, etc) on my system, and I want the best security possible. Typing in a username and password is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
I understand what you mean, and agree on some points, disagree on others. For the discerning user that can smell trouble-laden internet links, security is less of an issue. I'm yet to infect myself with a virus or spyware because I'm careful. I can understand how it should be a safeguard for those who are less likely to know that they're about to open Pandora's box.
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Old 18th June 2006, 10:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Both of those are quite as hackable as any asp .net site that isn't locked down.

I'm kind of a Joomla man these days. Just did a migration from Mambo to Joomla for a client, and I'm in love with it.
Joomlas great but it turns out Mambo is Joomla

http://www.mamboportal.com/content/view/2029/2/

drupal has been highly recommended but its supposed to be a bit of a pig to install
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Old 18th June 2006, 09:44 PM   #34
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I thought about moving Notes from Spain over to Drupal, but the installation looked like a real pain, and the whole 'taxonomy' system at the heart of the content structure put me off too - even die-hard drupalites were argueing over whether it was too complicated or not... So I decided to stick with good old Wordpress instead.
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Old 19th June 2006, 01:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ben
I thought about moving Notes from Spain over to Drupal, but the installation looked like a real pain, and the whole 'taxonomy' system at the heart of the content structure put me off too - even die-hard drupalites were argueing over whether it was too complicated or not... So I decided to stick with good old Wordpress instead.
Interesting podcast 'Inside the net' with Amber McArthur - Jeff from lollabot.com talking about drupal - he covered the installation issues and the lack of decent templates - says its going to be addressed in the near future, the modules and flexibility they talk about is very tempting....

Joolma is quite straightforward - I managed to install it from scratch (having never seen it before) and create a site in a couple of hours including hacking the css (currently populated with gibberish to show th client how it works), thread to needle it suits the kind of small school sites I need to put together

Last edited by gary; 19th June 2006 at 01:26 AM.
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