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Old 9th October 2010, 02:14 AM   #21
Uriel
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Legazpi I think you may be right there. The unions in Spain are not like the unions in France or the UK. They feel a need to prove they are not tools of the state and the rich. (Sadly I have little faith in them having spoken to a spanish relation who works within one. Corruption is everywhere in Spain ).

But one effect of the strike is that we are discussing it here. My spanish stepdaughter discusses it in Madrid. She now realises that reluctantly she will need to leave her country. And my sister-in-law knows she will have to bring up her daughter on less than 1000Es per month (her job goes this week).

Even a failed strike has an impact on peoples thinking and for those who cannot escape lets them see where they stand
You are lucky that you live in a system that lets you pick and choose what country you want to live in. You don't know how lucky! (Not saying the INS is a bunch of bastards. But I'd like to see their parents' marriage certificates....)
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Old 10th October 2010, 06:55 AM   #22
SrCandas
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You are lucky that you live in a system that lets you pick and choose what country you want to live in. You don't know how lucky! (Not saying the INS is a bunch of bastards. But I'd like to see their parents' marriage certificates....)
Uriel not sure I got that. I'm a Brit and yes I do know how lucky I am. I wouldn't wish to be anything but a brit - but I guess that goes for many people of the world and the country that chose them.

I can in theory live anywhere in Europe but as I'm not rich in reality I'm very limited. I certainly couldn't earn a living in Spain.

As for my step daughter (Spanish) she can't even live in her own country. As a brit my country has always been there for me.

I know Americans have to jump through hoops to get to Europe but I believe the same applies in reverse these days
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Old 10th October 2010, 07:14 PM   #23
Uriel
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Now that I have a Mexican boyfriend, I am being exposed to the joys of the American INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services -- the word "service" is being used pretty loosely here) secondhand, and it's an education, let me tell you. And every time he comes up against a new barrier or fee or other hoop to jump through that seems outrageous or improbable or just downright capricious, I check with my friends who have Mexican relatives or spouses, and they tell me, nope, that's really how it can be sometimes.

While I have lived and travelled in Europe a bit, it's really constructed on a different mental paradigm. Not saying it's a bad one, but it would be a challenge for me to live in it without really sharing it as a core of my attitudes/belief system. (My dad's wife is European, living here, and I think she struggles mightily with that challenge herself.) That shift in perceived realities is one of the reasons why I asked about ya'll's perspective on the strike, because for my perspective it was a pointless exercise for show, but then we don't tend to have general strikes here (just industry-specific ones), so I wanted to see what it meant for you.
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Old 10th October 2010, 07:58 PM   #24
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Now that I have a Mexican boyfriend, I am being exposed to the joys of the American INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services --
Uriel I can appreciate your frustrations. Unfortunately when dealing across borders then nothing is simple. All you can do is fight the fight and not let the b******s get you down. Yup I know easier said than done.

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because for my perspective it was a pointless exercise for show, but then we don't tend to have general strikes here (just industry-specific ones), so I wanted to see what it meant for you.
In spain the options left open to the masses are very limited. A small percentage of them are members of so called unions. However these are not the same as French, British or German unions. The unions felt, and I'm not defending such corrupt state manipulated orgs., that they needed to do something to demonstrate that they are not puppets of the state, and the options open to them were minimal. In the end they found themselves between a rock and a hard place, and went with the strike.

I don't think anyone is surprised that it didn't have spectacular impact. As I said many who wanted to strike couldn't, and many who didn't want to strike were forced to not work. And in parallel the miners of Asturias were already taking action.

My concern is the view that Spain is merely suffering as part of the global crisis and all will be well in the future. That is not true. Spain has and is sliding down the league tables, no matter how you measure them, crisis or no crisis, and would under normal circumstances find its new level in the global and European economies. However it cannot do that as it is tied to a currency who's value is determined by the very successful and impressive industrial might of Germany.

Thus Spanish salaries are dropping, jobs and wealth are disappearing, and prices are rising. (Many now say the cost of living is equal to that of the UK while salaries are much less).

So while the strike might be seen as a failure it could be argued that it was less of a failure than doing nothing. As I said my stepdaughter was able to see the reaction to the strike of her employer, her family's employers, and the country as a whole. It was enough for her to make plans.

Last edited by SrCandas; 10th October 2010 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 10th October 2010, 11:46 PM   #25
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I was in Europe shortly before the euro was adopted (and scarfed up all the coins I could find as souvenirs ) and then again the year after it had been put into effect. I remember my (German) relatives-by-marriage bitching about it, and I hear more complaints than praise on the internet. Is that just the nature of the beast, that complaints are always more vehement no matter what, or is it really dragging things down? (In your humble opinion; I know it's a very complicated subject.)

My gut feeling was always that it was a terrible idea, although I claim no knowledge of economics.
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Old 11th October 2010, 06:58 AM   #26
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I was in Europe shortly before the euro was adopted (and scarfed up all the coins I could find as souvenirs ) and then again the year after it had been put into effect. I remember my (German) relatives-by-marriage bitching about it, and I hear more complaints than praise on the internet. Is that just the nature of the beast, that complaints are always more vehement no matter what, or is it really dragging things down? (In your humble opinion; I know it's a very complicated subject.)

My gut feeling was always that it was a terrible idea, although I claim no knowledge of economics.
I've been mentioning that the euro was a crap idea on this forum for years now. But that's just my opinion. What really annoyed me was how difficult I found it to have a discussion with people in Spain about it when it was introduced in 2002. It might have just been the people I hung out with, but all I heard was an argument along the lines of "the euro is a good thing and anyone opposed to it is nationalistic and anti-european".
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Old 11th October 2010, 02:33 PM   #27
Andy.G.
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Some countries jumped onto the euro train in the hope it would help their struggling enonomies, but all it has done for some is delay the problem and now some the countries cant devalue the currency.
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