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Old 22nd January 2008, 02:30 AM   #81
Dave_K
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My father has dual citizenship with Spain and the US.
Does Spain know about that?
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Old 22nd January 2008, 02:34 AM   #82
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Does Spain know about that?
They should, they pay him a pension every month with an extra amount for Christmas and summer vacation and every year he goes to the Spanish consulate off Dupont Circle to provide Fe de Vida.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 03:07 AM   #83
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They should, they pay him a pension every month with an extra amount for Christmas and summer vacation and every year he goes to the Spanish consulate off Dupont Circle to provide Fe de Vida.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. US citizens can also collect Social Security while living abroad, and live abroad without being citizens of where they live. But I would suspect that even if they did know he's a US citizen, they wouldn't care (for now, but things can always change).

My wife has considered it, but based on our understanding of the current Spanish law, she would technically risk losing her Spanish citizenship by taking on US citizenship. This is not a risk she's willing to take, however small it may be. Permanent Residence is basically as good as citizenship anyway.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 04:21 PM   #84
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When you say "culture" you probably mean "entertainment". Culture is a very hard thing to export because it's something every country has and they probably don't feel the need to import a foreign one. For example, I am sure the French don't feel a need to import and pay for American culture
America has got more to offer than entertainment alone. American culture also includes museums and galleries, the New York Times Review of Books, PBS, great novelists, innovation in science, etc.

Unfortunately, many people tend to focus exclusively on America's popular culture when passing judgment on this country.

One more example. I studied anthropology during the 1980s and most of our of our anthropology textbooks were from the States. People like Margaret Mead and Ruth Benedict helped shape my outlook on the world. France has produced one great anthropologist, Claude Lévi-Strauss, but many if not most innovations in social science have come from the other side of the Big Pond.
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Old 23rd January 2008, 01:12 AM   #85
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I am not playing with any nacionality....I am only American because I was born there...in USA they determine nacionality with ´ius soli´, which means that a person only has to be born in the country to obtain citizenship. But since my father was Spanish, I also obtained Spanish citizenship from birth through him because Spain in a ´ius sangui´ country which means that any child born to a Spanish parent (anywhere in the world) is automatically Spanish. Also...my mother is Italian, (another ius sangui country). This is how I have 3 passports.
However, I will tell you that I actually work in immigration issues here in Spain...and have several friends that work with people who are getting their citizenship. They assure me that if my husband ever wants to get USA citizenship, it is perfectly safe as there is no chance anyone will ever find out..and if they do they will not likely care.
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Old 8th February 2008, 05:16 PM   #86
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Not that this adds to the conversation, but when I travel abroad and people ask where I'm from, I've always said New York instead of the US.

Stupid as it may be, I feel as though most Europeans see NYC as somewhat more "European" or non-traditionally American, and that it's less likely I'll be subject to anti-American sentiments. It's like the domestic version of saying you're Canadian.

Plus, New York is often an American destination of European tourists, so they have plenty of questions.

This method doesn't work out quite as well when traveling in the US.

Not sure what I'll do now that I live in Boston.
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Old 8th February 2008, 07:38 PM   #87
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Not that this adds to the conversation, but when I travel abroad and people ask where I'm from, I've always said New York instead of the US.

Stupid as it may be, I feel as though most Europeans see NYC as somewhat more "European" or non-traditionally American, and that it's less likely I'll be subject to anti-American sentiments. It's like the domestic version of saying you're Canadian.

Plus, New York is often an American destination of European tourists, so they have plenty of questions.

This method doesn't work out quite as well when traveling in the US.

Not sure what I'll do now that I live in Boston.


Crow about the Giants for one
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Old 8th February 2008, 07:43 PM   #88
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Crow about the Giants for one
Bostonians are the closest thing to Ultra Sur (an exaggeration of course) that we have in the US, so I'm well advised to avoid such gloating.

Besides, I'm a Steelers fan.
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Old 15th February 2008, 07:23 PM   #89
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In that case, I'm from New York, too, not the US hah

I'd like to get back to talking about if America has culture. for someone who's never traveled outside the US or Canada I probably can't form a strong opinion but I took the liberty of checking out the definition of culture in my dictionary widget (god i love macs):

the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

So in that case the first thing that comes to mind would be American music. country music, blues (although partly stolen..), grunge (the Seattle Grunge scene of the early 90's) and other stuff. it can't just be music that gives Americans some culture, right? right?
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Old 15th February 2008, 11:49 PM   #90
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I am not playing with any nacionality....I am only American because I was born there...in USA they determine nacionality with ´ius soli´, which means that a person only has to be born in the country to obtain citizenship. But since my father was Spanish, I also obtained Spanish citizenship from birth through him because Spain in a ´ius sangui´ country which means that any child born to a Spanish parent (anywhere in the world) is automatically Spanish. Also...my mother is Italian, (another ius sangui country). This is how I have 3 passports.
However, I will tell you that I actually work in immigration issues here in Spain...and have several friends that work with people who are getting their citizenship. They assure me that if my husband ever wants to get USA citizenship, it is perfectly safe as there is no chance anyone will ever find out..and if they do they will not likely care.
So if I'm born and raised in NY but father is born and raised in Valencia, are you telling us that I could claim Spanish nationality and all the perks that go with that?
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Old 16th February 2008, 12:34 AM   #91
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So if I'm born and raised in NY but father is born and raised in Valencia, are you telling us that I could claim Spanish nationality and all the perks that go with that?
You can claim nacionality if your father is Spanish or has spanish nacionality, but not if he was born and raised to foreign parents in Spain. Spain has a law that a child born in Spain is not automatically spanish, although there is a clause that is used often to sidestep that, especially those foreigners from the American continent because almost all of the countries in America are iui soli, and a child born to American parents, or Ecuadorian parents for example...could "forget" to register thier child in their embassy and the spanish government will give the child spanish citizenship to avoid the child becoming apátrida (a word meaning a person without a nacionality- I don´t know the term in English)

I don´t know if this answers your question, so I´ll assume that your father is Spanish. If this is the case, you can get nacionality but there are rules. Spain is not as lienient as other countries as far as nacionality is concerned, in Italy for example just being born to an Italian is enough and you can even transmit your nacionalidad without ever living there and without speaking the language...the same is not true of Spain.

You must live in Spain, legally and in a period that is not interupted for one year before you can claim the nacionality of Spain. This is actually a pretty priveleged position for being born to a Spaniard, most foreigners have to wait 10 years! You must then provide the following documents:

Birth certificate (translated and with Apostille)
Birth certificate of your father
Means of living (a job contract)
Law enforcement record from your country (translated)

The Spanish have also added a very arbitrary type requirement that is that you show your level of integración or involvement in the spainsh society...now this is really arbitrary because it kind of differs depending on the Registro Civil where you present your papers....alot of times they will do a language test, like an interview...or will ask for references, but I have heard some weird stories about government workers who asked for names of Spanish movie stars...or asked questions about spanish food...Most of the time it is a pretty straight forward interview and not so critical.

Of course I could explain more if you have some kind of specific question...in any case I should say that many of these things could conceviebly change after the elections if PP wins...some of the laws are part of a act that will change the rules and something the PP party wants to pass...okay hope this helps!
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Old 16th February 2008, 12:46 AM   #92
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So in that case the first thing that comes to mind would be American music. country music, blues (although partly stolen..), grunge (the Seattle Grunge scene of the early 90's) and other stuff. it can't just be music that gives Americans some culture, right? right?
I think America, or at least in my case...growing up in Miami, is too inter-cultural to have a dominant culture. I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings about the US, people assume that there isn´t culture because there isn´t a dominant culture. But I think that the mix is the real essence of the US...for example, I grew up with LOTS of culture, food and music from Puerto Rico and Cuba, and from my own family..Italian and Spanish. After school I would spend every afternoon in my best friend´s house and have rice dishes and fried plantains (her family is from puerto rico) and I had Jewish friends who invited me to their Bat Mitzvahs and taught me the dreidle song, and my next door neighbor was Jamaican so they would have big barbecues with reggae music and they would invite us sometimes although they didn´t have kids so I didn´t hang out much there....also my mom´s best friend and coworker was a gay man in a long term relationship who had lavish parties at his very nice house with a hammock that I loved...
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Old 16th February 2008, 01:04 AM   #93
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Well I lived in Valencia from 1972 to 1973. My father is from Valencia and his father is from Madrid while his mother is from Valencia. I have the mastery of the spanish language thaty one gets by going to the third grade in Spain 35 years ago and I have some familiarity of the cuisine, certainly more than a tourist. My father collects a pension from Spain and maintains his citizenship by providing an annual Fe de Vida at the Spanish Consulate. I wonder if I could process some of this at the Spanish Consulate.
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Old 16th February 2008, 09:02 AM   #94
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I wonder if I could process some of this at the Spanish Consulate.
VS,
You should definitely check with the local Spanish consulate because according to their info, you would have to give up your U.S. citizenship to become a Spanish national. The info that Virgeved gave you appears to apply only to people from former Spanish colonies, Spanish-speaking countries and Portugal.

From the Spanish consultate web site:

OPCIÓN (Art. 20 C.c.).- Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiera sido originariamente español y nacido en España podrán optar a la nacionalidad española, sin límite de edad ni de tiempo. Sin embargo, deberán renunciar a su nacionalidad anterior, salvo que tengan una nacionalidad de un país iberoamericano, Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial o Portugal (art. 24.1 C.c.).

You can go here to read more: http://www.maec.es/Consulados/NuevaY.../Nacionalidad/
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Old 16th February 2008, 01:44 PM   #95
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VS,
You should definitely check with the local Spanish consulate because according to their info, you would have to give up your U.S. citizenship to become a Spanish national. The info that Virgeved gave you appears to apply only to people from former Spanish colonies, Spanish-speaking countries and Portugal.

From the Spanish consultate web site:

OPCIÓN (Art. 20 C.c.).- Las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiera sido originariamente español y nacido en España podrán optar a la nacionalidad española, sin límite de edad ni de tiempo. Sin embargo, deberán renunciar a su nacionalidad anterior, salvo que tengan una nacionalidad de un país iberoamericano, Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial o Portugal (art. 24.1 C.c.).

You can go here to read more: http://www.maec.es/Consulados/NuevaY.../Nacionalidad/
not exactly, I was speaking about a child born in Spain....at the moment of their birth, which is not the same as a person who is now an adult and already posesses another nacionality. The information you have, beckett, is about nacionality and not about apátridas. However, beckett is right about the fact that you should always ask, the rules change alot....a better web site for you would be the Real e Ilustre Colegio de Abogados de Zaragoza: www.reicaz.es. They update the information constantly and are very up to date about the changes...also keep in mind what I said before...we have elections in March and everything could change drastically then... (for example we just had a change in January of this year where the actual information that beckett gives you has changed...from now on it will also include children of mothers and fathers who were NOT born in Spain...in other words...since Jan. of 2008 you can obtain citizenship if your father was born in another country but to Spanish parents...)

It´s true that the rules say you have to give up your nacionality however most lawyers and even some oficials will tell you that governments do not exchange information about people´s nacionality... unless you are an international criminal...

then again it is always your choice, and for you I don´t really see the point in asking for citizenship, as a child of a Spaniard you can always gain residency in Spain as long as you have a job contract...you have priority. The only diference in a permenant residency and nacionality is the right to vote (and incidentaly the right to become guardian of the king in case of emergency - but only natural born Spaniards can do that)
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Old 16th February 2008, 03:02 PM   #96
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VS, I'm not sure this will help with your situation, but it appears the Spanish law did change recently regarding dual nationality for Spaniards like my wife or your father. Based on what I understand, a Spaniard can pick up another nationality, but in so doing they lose their Spanish citizenship. If, however, within a 3-year period they submit a certain application, they can recover their Spanish citizenship. This will not cause them to lose the other citizenship, depending on the other country's laws (US allows dual citizenship). You don't have to go through this rigamarole if the second country is one of the former colonies referred to by Beckett.

So, it appears in certain situations dual citizenship can be obtained in a convoluted Spanish way : you acquire another nationality, lose your Spanish nationality, then re-acquire your Spanish nationality, if all your paperwork is in order and submitted on time.

Here is a link to the Spanish law regarding these things and a link to a message board about these things.

Your situation is different. In acquiring Spanish citizenship, I believe you would have to take an oath renouncing your U.S. citizenship. However, the U.S. does not recognize foreign oaths like these, so as far as U.S. gov is concerned you'd still be American. A high profile example of this is Marc Rich, the sleazebag pardoned by Bill Clinton, who tried to get beyond the reach of U.S. law by acquiring Spanish citizenship and renouncing his U.S. citizenship. To his chagrin, this did not change his status as U.S. citizen. (As a weird footnote, King Juan Carlos was a big name who urged Clinton to pardon Rich).
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Old 17th February 2008, 01:52 AM   #97
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You´re right dave! VS, in order to loose your citizenship in the states you would have to sign a sworn statement in front of a US oficial...

The other side is true as well, although actually you don´t have to loose Spanish citizenship first....there is actually a way to go to a registro civil and announce that you want to retain your citizenship BEFORE you loose it, I don´t work in that department so I don´t know the process but I think its just a paper you have to sign...

The only other way for a Spaniard to loose the citizenship is if you gain another, and then only use that one for 3 years consecutively in a another country...using your spanish passport can be going to the embassy and voting..for example...like dave said too, it´s really easy to get it back...

Anyway, it is complicated....but posible!
okay good luck...
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