question about reflexive

k374 · 6th February 2010, 10:49 PM

"When will the boat arrive?"

do I need to say:
El barco, cuando llegará?

Liternal: The boat, when will it arrive

or

El barco, cuando se llegará?

Literal: The boat, when will it arrive itself

Grimace · 6th February 2010, 10:55 PM

You would say "¿Cuándo llegará el barco?" under normal circumstances.

Structuring it like "¿El barco, cuándo llegará?" sounds pretty informal.

k374 · 6th February 2010, 11:23 PM

thanks, I asked this question because I was listening to this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmj6hu19u5A

and in it there is a sentence:
y el reloj, no se parará por ti,

and I was just thinking why he just doesn't say
y el reloj, no parará por ti,

why use the se reflexive?Is it to emphasize something?

Grimace · 6th February 2010, 11:42 PM

This is my opinion as a student of the Spanish language, so please may any and all native Spanish speakers feel free to disagree with me.

In the case of "pararse", they're basically using it in its reflexive form because they can, although "parar" would be acceptable as well.

However, perhaps with some other uses, the choice between pararse and parar would be clearer. For example, you would say "paró de llover" and not "se paró de llover".

Caer is a similar case. You could choose to use caer in its reflexive form or not and it would still mean the same thing in most (if not all) cases.

And often with verbs of consumption (comer, beber, fumar, etc) people use a reflexive verb that isn't necessary, but adds a stylistic touch.

"Me he comido todo el arroz" "Me voy a fumar un pitillo"

It's like the English "eat up". We could easily do without the "up", but it's just there.

Hope this makes sense.

k374 · 7th February 2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimace

And often with verbs of consumption (comer, beber, fumar, etc) people use a reflexive verb that isn't necessary, but adds a stylistic touch.

This may very well be the case, even though it is not required he may have added it just as a filler for the song to come out correctly...

JNiem93 · 8th February 2010, 08:24 PM

You could put the subject(in this case el barco) either in front or behind and it will be gramatically correct but i found from being in spain the year that it is more often put behind.

Petrichor · 10th February 2010, 02:39 PM

The following is an extract from A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish by Butt and Benjamin (page 389):-

1) Both words translate 'to stop' on both continents, but they are not usually interchangeable. The non-pronominal form indicates scheduled or planned halts, e.g. buses at bus-stops, trains in stations. The pronominal form suggests unexpected stops i.e. at traffic lights or because of breakdown.

El motor se ha parado. The motor's stopped.

Me tuve que parar en un semáforo. I had to stop at the lights.

When the subject is human, the pronominal form often suggests that the subject is personally moving, i.e. walking or running, and the non-pronominal form that (s)he is driving a car.

Me paré delante de la tienda. I paused in front of the shop.

Paré delante de la tienda. I stopped (the car) in front of/outside
the shop.

2) 'Parar' can also be used as a transitive verb:

¡Para esa máquina! Stop that machine.

3) 'Pararse' is also used much in Latin America, but not in Spain, to mean 'to stand up': párate derecho = (in Spain) ponte derecho = 'Stand up straight'.

6th February 2010, 10:49 PM	#1
k374 Forero Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 36	question about reflexive "When will the boat arrive?" do I need to say: El barco, cuando llegará? Liternal: The boat, when will it arrive or El barco, cuando se llegará? Literal: The boat, when will it arrive itself

6th February 2010, 11:42 PM	#4
Grimace Big and Purple Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Madriz Posts: 159	This is my opinion as a student of the Spanish language, so please may any and all native Spanish speakers feel free to disagree with me. In the case of "pararse", they're basically using it in its reflexive form because they can, although "parar" would be acceptable as well. However, perhaps with some other uses, the choice between pararse and parar would be clearer. For example, you would say "paró de llover" and not "se paró de llover". Caer is a similar case. You could choose to use caer in its reflexive form or not and it would still mean the same thing in most (if not all) cases. And often with verbs of consumption (comer, beber, fumar, etc) people use a reflexive verb that isn't necessary, but adds a stylistic touch. "Me he comido todo el arroz" "Me voy a fumar un pitillo" It's like the English "eat up". We could easily do without the "up", but it's just there. Hope this makes sense. Last edited by Grimace; 7th February 2010 at 11:41 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

6th February 2010, 10:55 PM	#2
Grimace Big and Purple Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Madriz Posts: 159	You would say "¿Cuándo llegará el barco?" under normal circumstances. Structuring it like "¿El barco, cuándo llegará?" sounds pretty informal.

6th February 2010, 11:23 PM	#3
k374 Forero Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 36	thanks, I asked this question because I was listening to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmj6hu19u5A and in it there is a sentence: y el reloj, no se parará por ti, and I was just thinking why he just doesn't say y el reloj, no parará por ti, why use the se reflexive?Is it to emphasize something?

8th February 2010, 08:24 PM	#6
JNiem93 Forero Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tres Cantos, Madrid, España Posts: 6	You could put the subject(in this case el barco) either in front or behind and it will be gramatically correct but i found from being in spain the year that it is more often put behind.

10th February 2010, 02:39 PM	#7
Petrichor Super Forero Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: India Posts: 133	The following is an extract from A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish by Butt and Benjamin (page 389):- 1) Both words translate 'to stop' on both continents, but they are not usually interchangeable. The non-pronominal form indicates scheduled or planned halts, e.g. buses at bus-stops, trains in stations. The pronominal form suggests unexpected stops i.e. at traffic lights or because of breakdown. El motor se ha parado. The motor's stopped. Me tuve que parar en un semáforo. I had to stop at the lights. When the subject is human, the pronominal form often suggests that the subject is personally moving, i.e. walking or running, and the non-pronominal form that (s)he is driving a car. Me paré delante de la tienda. I paused in front of the shop. Paré delante de la tienda. I stopped (the car) in front of/outside the shop. 2) 'Parar' can also be used as a transitive verb: ¡Para esa máquina! Stop that machine. 3) 'Pararse' is also used much in Latin America, but not in Spain, to mean 'to stand up': párate derecho = (in Spain) ponte derecho = 'Stand up straight'.