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Old 14th June 2010, 03:16 PM   #101
Legazpi
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Right, but that's sort of the crucial point in my opinion. Smoking should be banned in places where workers (who don't have a choice) have to spend long hours every day. I have no problem with the existence of places where people can smoke, such as "smokers' clubs" and the like, as long as tax-paying employees are not required to expose themselves to a dangerous yet easily controllable environmental toxin.
This is similar to a point I was trying to make earlier in this thread (or maybe another one) - the problem is that the smoking ban is going from one extreme to another. If the government introduced smoking licenses and made bars that wanted to allow smoking pay for the license, then there would be a reduced financial incentive for bars to allow smoking. We'd end up with some bars allowing smoking and others not. So there would be a genuine choice between going to a smoker's bar or a non-smoker's bar.
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Old 14th June 2010, 11:55 PM   #102
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The ban would help more people than it would hurt.
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Old 15th June 2010, 10:10 AM   #103
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I was in MAD last week and arranged to meet at a bar. When I got there it was a little smoky so we sat outside. An easy enough decision. If It had been any cooler - and it was cool - I would have gone inside. No biggy.
I am a non smoker. I have written everything I have to say on this subject in previous posts.
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Old 15th June 2010, 01:47 PM   #104
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This is similar to a point I was trying to make earlier in this thread (or maybe another one) - the problem is that the smoking ban is going from one extreme to another. If the government introduced smoking licenses and made bars that wanted to allow smoking pay for the license, then there would be a reduced financial incentive for bars to allow smoking. We'd end up with some bars allowing smoking and others not. So there would be a genuine choice between going to a smoker's bar or a non-smoker's bar.

I agree with you entirely,A sound ,simple solution to the problem as everyone gets what they want,the smoker get to enjoy their cigarette free from persecution, the non smokers have a choice of going to the smoking or non smoking bar free from smoke,and the bar owner does not have to close down is business. unfortunately the anti smokers would never agree to it.( I am a non smoker by the way and just think it would be hypocritical of me to condem somebody for polluting the atmosphere with smoke and jump into my 4 by 4 or public transport or travel to spain on a plane.)
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Old 15th June 2010, 04:16 PM   #105
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.....unfortunately the anti smokers would never agree to it.)
Yes that's curious. Why can we never come to some agreement, but always have to do what they want??
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Old 17th June 2010, 10:00 AM   #106
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Yes that's curious. Why can we never come to some agreement, but always have to do what they want??
No idea - are there any smoke free vegetarian bars on Cava Baja - surely a tremendous niche market no one has noticed?
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Old 17th June 2010, 11:34 AM   #107
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No idea - are there any smoke free vegetarian bars on Cava Baja - surely a tremendous niche market no one has noticed?
A smoke-free bar would be niche enough in Spain.
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Old 18th June 2010, 02:45 AM   #108
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I don't think most alcohol has meat in it to begin with, so pretty much all bars are probably vegetarian by default. Unless they serve food, too, I suppose.
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Old 18th June 2010, 09:47 AM   #109
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Here's a great bar with absolutely no smoking. It's on the C/ Alcala near goya.
http://www.estudio3.es/geoclub-ppal-ingles.html
Unfortunately the beer is Heineken.
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Old 18th June 2010, 02:07 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Grimace View Post
Right, but that's sort of the crucial point in my opinion. Smoking should be banned in places where workers (who don't have a choice) have to spend long hours every day. I have no problem with the existence of places where people can smoke, such as "smokers' clubs" and the like, as long as tax-paying employees are not required to expose themselves to a dangerous yet easily controllable environmental toxin.

But they (and you ) do have a choice. If you don't like your work place move on..The only place one has is forced to work in is say a salt mine by some dictator regime.
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Old 18th June 2010, 02:08 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by richardksa View Post
Here's a great bar with absolutely no smoking. It's on the C/ Alcala near goya.
http://www.estudio3.es/geoclub-ppal-ingles.html
Unfortunately the beer is Heineken.
I would rather have the smoke if that is the choice.
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Old 18th June 2010, 02:12 PM   #112
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I have a question for all of your anti-smokers:
The new law is proposing to ban smoking in pubs clubs and bars, but is easing the anti-smoking laws for hotel. If this is law is implemented are you never ever going to stay in a a Spanish hotel?
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Old 18th June 2010, 08:59 PM   #113
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But they (and you ) do have a choice. If you don't like your work place move on..The only place one has is forced to work in is say a salt mine by some dictator regime.
If you think it's acceptable for people to have to endure health hazards in their job simply because it would be too much of an inconvenience for their employer to provide protection, then I guess you'd never support banning smoking in bars. A 20% national unemployment rate doesn't give a lot of hospitality workers much choice in what jobs they take.

I never go to bars where smoking is permitted and personally won't be affected one way or another when it's prohibited, but I'm in favour of a smoking ban for the benefit of the employees.
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Old 19th June 2010, 12:25 AM   #114
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If you think it's acceptable for people to have to endure health hazards in their job simply because it would be too much of an inconvenience for their employer to provide protection, ......
I never go to bars where smoking is permitted and personally won't be affected one way or another when it's prohibited, but I'm in favour of a smoking ban for the benefit of the employees.
Something that worries me about bar workers, particularly in Irish bars like Molly Malones, is the loud music, read cultural noise, that they have to be subjected to. That's my main complaint about bars here. I can't sytand the noise and don't see why they should also be subjected to it. In many bars the level is surely above health and safety limits for industrial noise. I would support a ban on that.
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Old 28th June 2010, 03:57 PM   #115
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Hello,

That is really good because smoking is really very bad thing and it have so many bad effects.but i think maybe some people wouldn't like it because they have that in there habit but overall it is very good for health and future.

thanks!!

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Old 28th June 2010, 04:35 PM   #116
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It just winds me up that Spain, who I really thought credited it's citizens with actually having common sense and being able to make their own decisions, have bowed to the PC brigade.
I don't like smoking personally, so don't often frequent smoky bars and instead go to Non-smoking bars or bars that have well ventilated areas. On the occassions that I do go to smoking bars, I respect that it's my own choice to go there and know the score.
I think it's a shame that the Government are making a big thing of something that actually isn't.
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:17 PM   #117
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the smoking ban has been in effect in Canada for 5 or 6 years. I really don't know what effect it has had however. I DO know that there are less than half the number of bars there used to be. All the ban really did was make most of the smokers stay home and drink...to the point that no one has a bar to go to in many places.

Of course, after that ban came the pressure from the non-smoking groups to ban it from doorways....and decks....then even parking lots of certain buildings.....the problem is once the got the first ban, they just kept pushing!

I am a recent non-smoker and musician who had to spend many nights in smokey bars. But I am an adult, and if I didn't want to go into that situation no one was forcing me to. Everyone knows the pros and cons of smoking, you then just have to choose if you want to be around it or not.

I hear a lot of people say "but I like going to bars but not the smoke..."...well there may be a lot of things I want to do or not do, but that doesn't mean I think I should be able to force a bar or any other business to bend to my wishes.

If the TRUE majority of people are against bar smoking, then it will change because it makes more sense to pander to the majorities wishes. If the minority feel they should get what they want, regardless of their reasoning, it shouldn't happen.

BTW, recent figures in Canada show that obesity has replaced smoking as the leading cause of disease and death here, and yet I don't hear anyone screaming to ban pop and chips and Macdonalds......just a thought.
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:24 PM   #118
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BTW, recent figures in Canada show that obesity has replaced smoking as the leading cause of disease and death here, and yet I don't hear anyone screaming to ban pop and chips and Macdonalds......just a thought.
There's no such thing as getting ill from passive eating, though, is there?
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:32 PM   #119
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there is certainly such a thing as an individual getting ill from being too fat! And it has become a huge drain on our health care system.

So technically you are correct on a personal level.



(of course I don't want to sit on the plane for 4 hours beside the 500 pound guy that is over flowing onto my seat! LOL
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Old 10th July 2010, 04:07 PM   #120
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There's no such thing as getting ill from passive eating, though, is there?

But there could be...look at a larger sized person and you "normally" see the rest of the family are of the same build.
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