Notes from Spain and Spanish Forum Learn REAL Spanish now!  

Go Back   Notes from Spain and Spanish Forum > The Rastro > Life, the Universe, and Everything Else

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20th August 2008, 06:16 PM   #21
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
Sometimes the truth an be told in 300 words or less and can come from any corner of the world because if the web village reveals anything, it is that we are more similar than disimilar and should stop persisting to exist in silos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by graeme View Post
I don't think anyone denies that there is racism in the UK and the US. The difference seems to be that there are also a lot of people from those countries who condemn it...without reservations....without pointing the finger at other countries and saying "they are worse than we are"....without constantly looking for excuses....and without playing the victim. It's a detail, but an important one.
ok, 1 by 1.
and sorry about my poor english.

the photo is stupid and a mistake but I just say sorry to chinesse people
not a newspaper from UK more knowing that this newspaper before a match Spain-Uk put in the first page a beefeater laughing and cuting the head of a torero with knees on the floor and stupid face, and inside lots of "jokes" as "why spaniards wear mustache... to looks like their mothers".
the sentence of people of countries condemn without reservations and blablabla is just demagogy, if you want to speak about racism in spain please do it, but with sense not being the lambs of a blood-poisoned reporter.
 
Old 20th August 2008, 06:33 PM   #22
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legazpi View Post
You are correct in pointing out that racism exists in the UK and the US, which is why it is important that the media in those countries tries to expose it, so we can reflect on it and try to improve the situation.

However in Spain the media appears to be in a state of denial that certain racial gestures might be found offensive. It's like they are saying "hey, in our culture this is not offensive, so we'll keep on doing it". Now I know that the Spanish don't find it offensive, and it was probably an innocent mistake. However, can you not see that the Chinese might find this offensive? Can you not see that when the Spanish kids go back to school next month that they will all be making slit-eyed expressions to the Chinese kids? Can you not see that if you are the only Chinese kid in a class of 30 and everybody is pointing out how different you are to them then you might feel a bit lonely, isolated, depressed even?

If Spain wants an integrated society then I can't see how such behaviour helps.

I've kept out of this topic so far, but on Sunday I saw two television presenters (on "el cuarto") ridiculing the idea that the gesture might be offensive and they started making slit-eyes themselves, as if to prove a point. On live national television. This was then followed by some footage of people in the street saying how making such an expression is not offensive...

However they did not even ask one single Asian person about what they thought!

It seems that if it doesn't cause offense to the Spanish then that is all that matters.

I believe the root of the problem lies with the Spanish media. There is very little investigative journalism, debate, or any kind of awkward questioning taking place. Foreign countries look to the Spanish media as a reflection of Spanish public opinion. However if the topic of interest might reflect badly on Spain, the media collectively becomes defensive. Nobody stands up and says "hey guys, that might have been a bad idea!" Instead it is portrayed as the Anglos picking on the Spanish, maybe to divert attention from how feeble the Spanish media currently is.
do you go to cinema or watch tv?
spanirard are those brawn ugly mustached people living in the midle age
wearing torero and bailaora clothes the hole day being allways taking siesta and fiesta and tapas, in an Ateam episode to mission impossible or being the stupid bads in the films as Elisabeth 2 or pirates, and more and more,and more.
nobody has said sorry but we are acostumbrated.
 
Old 20th August 2008, 06:47 PM   #23
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legazpi View Post

However they did not even ask one single Asian person about what they thought!
I did.

if the asian comunity in Spain say something make sure spaniards ear, there is was film about a chinese girl who loves a spanish guy, when the chinese comunity knew that, they complained and the director had to change the chinese actress and put a spanish actress, the film was horrible anyway
 
Old 20th August 2008, 07:00 PM   #24
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett View Post
Un aplauso, Legazpi! Very well said.

At the rate that Spain is going, it should be ready for the Olympics by the year 2040. Spain should forget about even bothering to submit a bid for the 2016 Olympics if it insists on being, as a society, so insultingly dismissive about issues related to race, ethnicity and cultural differences.



To: ArualyEgroj (and, by extension, all the other Spaniards out there who don't think Spain has a ticking time bomb on its hands when it comes to race and xenophobia and keep pointing at the U.S. and the U.K. as even worse examples than Spain.)
about 2016 olimpics I dont understand what you are saying
sorry about U.S. I havent bin there, is just what we see in tv and films...what damage is making the media!!!
 
Old 20th August 2008, 07:05 PM   #25
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett View Post
Let me give you an analogy. Let's say that you and are in a parking lot. Our cars are parked next to one another. While getting into my car, I notice that one of my tires is flat. I get a jack and a spare tire out of my car and begin to change it. As I roll up my sleeves and squat down, I just so happen to notice that one of the tires on YOUR car is also flat. So I yell, "Hey, Aru!" -(and I call you "Aru" because no tengo ni idea how to pronounce "ArualyEgroj")- "Don't drive anywhere because one of your tires is flat. You better fix it before you go on the road."

Instead of checking out your tires, you look at me with a sneer and say mockingly, "Oh, yeah? Well, what about your car, tronco? You've got a flat tire too and I don't see you driving anywhere on it!"

I look at you, exasperated, and I reply, "Yes, I know I've got a flat tire! Can you not see me squatting here, on the ground, with a tire iron in my fist? What do you think I'm doing down here? Having a picnic?!!"

And you respond, "Well what gives YOU the right to tell ME that I've got a flat tire! I don't have to listen to you! I know my car! And my car would NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS HAVE A FLAT TIRE!!"

And with that, I shake my head, turn around and finish changing the flat tire on my car. It takes longer than I expected, but I finally get the spare tire on. I drive the car out of the parking lot and I'm motoring along the highway when I come across an accident. I slow down to see what's going on. Whadda ya know, it's your car. Your tire totally blew out causing your car to spin out of control and hit some other cars on the highway.

An accident that could've been prevented was not due to the state of denial you were in.
sorry, you made a mistake, im not Forrest Gump
 
Old 20th August 2008, 07:11 PM   #26
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
Cual eres, Jorge o Laura?
now I am the rabbit in the pit, and you are the wolves.
 
Old 20th August 2008, 07:19 PM   #27
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett View Post
Un aplauso, Legazpi! Very well said.

At the rate that Spain is going, it should be ready for the Olympics by the year 2040.
at least we dont have death penalty.

and dont you remember Barcelona 92?
I though it was 1 of the best olimpics ever made in the history.
 
Old 20th August 2008, 08:43 PM   #28
Lindsayk
Forero Senior
 
Lindsayk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 75
Default

well if we're going to talk about fairness and equality for everyone, the US won't be ready to host the Olympics for centuries. I'm not excusing what the spanish basketball team did, but Spain was one of the first countries to legalize same-sex marriages, which is a huge advancement for equality. Every country has strengths and weaknesses.
Lindsayk is offline  
Old 20th August 2008, 11:10 PM   #29
Legazpi
Mega Forero
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Madrid (Arganzuela)
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArualyEgroj View Post
do you go to cinema or watch tv?
spanirard are those brawn ugly mustached people living in the midle age
wearing torero and bailaora clothes the hole day being allways taking siesta and fiesta and tapas, in an Ateam episode to mission impossible or being the stupid bads in the films as Elisabeth 2 or pirates, and more and more,and more.
nobody has said sorry but we are acostumbrated.
Watch Braveheart or The Patriot and the English are the evil bad guys. Who cares, they're only movies and nothing to do with the subject we are talking about. Although you are confirming my comment about the Spanish becoming defensive when dealing with foreign criticism.

Since you are interested here are 2 more articles about racial problems in the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton_riot_(1981)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Lawrence

Both were extensively reported by the press, and led to large government inquiries. Lets hope the situation is improving.
Legazpi is offline  
Old 20th August 2008, 11:37 PM   #30
greytop
Hero Forero
 
greytop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pego, Spain
Posts: 3,363
Default

It's been an interesting debate but I don't think it should turn into Jorge y/o Laura defending themselves and their country against the rest of us.
All part of man's in-built need to prove himself better than his neighbour IMHO. Sometimes we use race - other times it's religion, colour, country, hair colour, type of car, house, job etc etc etc.
When we've stopped applying and arguing about labels for our behavioural problems and learnt to accept each other for what we are it'll be a better world - and I'll be long since gone from it I guess.
greytop is offline  
Old 21st August 2008, 12:42 AM   #31
Legazpi
Mega Forero
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Madrid (Arganzuela)
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArualyEgroj View Post
at least we dont have death penalty.

and dont you remember Barcelona 92?
I though it was 1 of the best olimpics ever made in the history.

I agree that this should not affect Spain's bid for 2016. Much worse examples of racial insensitivity have occurred in every country that has ever held the Olympics.

As I mentioned before, part of the problem is indifference from the Spanish media which lets it get blown out of all proportion. The other problem is that it is what is known as "the silly season" in the UK media. There are usually fewer stories to report in August, so stories that would usually receive limited exposure suddenly end up on the front pages - the British media is far from perfect as well.
Legazpi is offline  
Old 21st August 2008, 03:59 AM   #32
ValenciaSon
Hero Forero
 
ValenciaSon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Posts: 4,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArualyEgroj View Post
now I am the rabbit in the pit, and you are the wolves.
Soy un lobo sin dientes
ValenciaSon is offline  
Old 21st August 2008, 06:39 AM   #33
saiguanas
Super Forero
 
saiguanas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 241
Default

One thing that I thought about today was, how many of us have ever slanted our eyes....ever?

I think the attention getter with this is that it was done on sort of a public stage.

If I ask the same question again but change it to, how many have ever slanted their eyes while posing for a press photo or similar public circumstance? Fewer?

Doesn't mean that we are okay to do it in private but it just reminds us of our own faults.
saiguanas is offline  
Old 25th August 2008, 01:01 AM   #34
Legazpi
Mega Forero
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Madrid (Arganzuela)
Posts: 834
Default HSBC embroiled in 'slit-eye row' over advert

I'm slightly hesitant in posting this since it might reignite a thread that got a bit lively, and which thankfully seemed to have died its own death without Ben having to close it.

However I think a link to this story should be included as well, at least to show that it is not just Spain that comes under the spotlight from the British press on these matters.
Legazpi is offline  
Old 25th August 2008, 01:30 PM   #35
Beckett
Mega Forero
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 898
Default Forum double-standard?

I'm surprised no one in this forum has mentioned the final basketball game of the Olympics (Spain vs. USA). I guess if Spain had won, there would've been congratulatory posts but since they didn't, no one feels like commenting. It was an exciting and close game. Worth getting up early on a Sunday morning to watch!
Beckett is offline  
Old 25th August 2008, 07:29 PM   #36
ArualyEgroj
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett View Post
I'm surprised no one in this forum has mentioned the final basketball game of the Olympics (Spain vs. USA). I guess if Spain had won, there would've been congratulatory posts but since they didn't, no one feels like commenting. It was an exciting and close game. Worth getting up early on a Sunday morning to watch!
A great basketball espectacle,
what a pity the referees didnīt mind the count of the steps of the USA team.

sorry, I had to say it.
 
Old 26th August 2008, 12:41 AM   #37
ValenciaSon
Hero Forero
 
ValenciaSon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Posts: 4,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArualyEgroj View Post
A great basketball espectacle,
what a pity the referees didnīt mind the count of the steps of the USA team.

sorry, I had to say it.
They actually fly, it just looks like they walk
ValenciaSon is offline  
Old 26th August 2008, 01:11 AM   #38
yunouguaramin
IYKWIM
 
yunouguaramin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: trankis...I'm NOT coming back
Posts: 238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legazpi View Post
I'm slightly hesitant in posting this since it might reignite a thread that got a bit lively, and which thankfully seemed to have died its own death without Ben having to close it.

However I think a link to this story should be included as well, at least to show that it is not just Spain that comes under the spotlight from the British press on these matters.
The slant-eyes photo perharps is a misjudgment, because what is done in Spain (or whatever place) is not only seen and judged in Spain, but in whatever other place; and in others places they have different rules and points of view.

I suppose the british and american media have deal with this in a similar way, haven't they?
yunouguaramin is offline  
Old 26th August 2008, 01:45 AM   #39
ValenciaSon
Hero Forero
 
ValenciaSon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Posts: 4,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yunouguaramin View Post
The slant-eyes photo perharps is a misjudgment, because what is done in Spain (or whatever place) is not only seen and judged in Spain, but in whatever other place; and in others places they have different rules and points of view.

I suppose the british and american media have deal with this in a similar way, haven't they?
What can we say, except that we have higher expectations from Spain.
ValenciaSon is offline  
Old 26th August 2008, 02:41 AM   #40
Acosta
Mega Forero
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArualyEgroj View Post
A great basketball espectacle,
what a pity the referees didnīt mind the count of the steps of the USA team.

sorry, I had to say it.
They must have been NBA refs.

Spain played great.
Acosta is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
Learn REAL Spanish now!

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.