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Old 31st July 2008, 02:41 AM   #1
ValenciaSon
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Default Las Olimpiadas

Porque dicen Pekin en paginas web en español? Yo creeia que ya no se usaba ese nobre y se usa el original de Beijing?
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Old 31st July 2008, 05:29 AM   #2
Perro Callejero
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Wikipedia dice que es la RAE que prefiere el uso de Pekín en vez de Beijing, aunque el gobierno chino pefiere Beijing.
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Old 31st July 2008, 02:31 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Perro Callejero View Post
Wikipedia dice que es la RAE que prefiere el uso de Pekín en vez de Beijing, aunque el gobierno chino pefiere Beijing.
Pues un poco atrasados estan la RAE en esto, no?
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Old 31st July 2008, 03:43 PM   #4
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Parece que sí, pero también parece que a la RAE no le gusta cambiar mucho.
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Old 31st July 2008, 11:19 PM   #5
ese
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Porque dicen Pekin en paginas web en español? Yo creeia que ya no se usaba ese nobre y se usa el original de Beijing?


En España se sigue usando Pekín. Beijing no se utiliza.
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Old 31st July 2008, 11:48 PM   #6
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En España se sigue usando Pekín. Beijing no se utiliza.
Interesante porque si vas a la pagina web oficial de las olimipiadas de Bejing en español, no se usa Pekin.
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Old 1st August 2008, 02:50 AM   #7
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what's wrong with Pekín? Consider, the English rendering of the UK´s largest city is "London" whereas in spanish one says "Londres". Is this incorrect or outdated? Why should they be the same? They're place names from different languages.

Consider also from the perspective of spanish orthography, how would one pronounce "beijing"? I suppose one could write "bejín".

I imagine that both "Peking" and "Beijing" (english pronunciation) are rather poor renderings of the city's name in Mandarin, and there's no reason to believe that Pekín or bejín are any better. So why bother?
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Old 1st August 2008, 03:47 AM   #8
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I agree with Xan, that we shouldn't expect place names from different languages to always be the same.

With regards to Beijing and Pekín, it appears that both names are accepted in Spanish. Here's a page from Wikilengua about this:
http://www.wikilengua.org/index.php/Beijing

The same thing happens in English. Examples from English of place names that are different from their original languages:

Bombay (Mumbai)
Florence (Firenze)
Venice (Venecia)
Mexico City (Distrito Federal)

Last edited by Beckett; 1st August 2008 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 1st August 2008, 05:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by xan View Post
what's wrong with Pekín? Consider, the English rendering of the UK´s largest city is "London" whereas in spanish one says "Londres". Is this incorrect or outdated? Why should they be the same? They're place names from different languages. So why bother?
Well everyone else in the world has bothered. We don't call Ethiopia Abyssinia or Istanbul, Constantinople. Bother out of respect I guess. London is anglicized from the original Londinium but since England is past the Roman empire I can see why London but Peking is just a westernization of Beijing which they do not want to recognize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckett View Post
I agree with Xan, that we shouldn't expect place names from different languages to always be the same.

With regards to Beijing and Pekín, it appears that both names are accepted in Spanish. Here's a page from Wikilengua about this:
http://www.wikilengua.org/index.php/Beijing

The same thing happens in English. Examples from English of place names that are different from their original languages:

Bombay (Mumbai)
Florence (Firenze)
Venice (Venecia)
Mexico City (Distrito Federal)
There has been an effort to refer to Bombay as Mumbai in the US, at least in my circles. I wouldn't want Spain to commit a faux pas if it isn't practiced anywhere else because it isn't tolerated.
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Old 1st August 2008, 05:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
There has been an effort to refer to Bombay as Mumbai in the US, at least in my circles. I wouldn't want Spain to commit a faux pas if it isn't practiced anywhere else because it isn't tolerated.
I think that Bombay (Mumbai) and, to an extent, Calcutta (Kolkata) and Madras (Chennai), do not fit with the claim that they are a different way of rendering a city's name. These city names were those used by their own government from around the 17th century until recently, mainly as a result of British/Portuguese influence.
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Old 1st August 2008, 05:50 PM   #11
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En España se sigue diciendo Pekín que es como todo el mundo conoce la ciudad (antes se escribía Pequín). La transcripción Beijing no la conoce la mayoría de los españoles y ni siquiera existe todavía una forma 'española' de pronunciarlo.
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Old 1st August 2008, 05:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
Porque dicen Pekin en paginas web en español? Yo creeia que ya no se usaba ese nobre y se usa el original de Beijing?
¿Por qué utilizan Seville en lugar del original SEVILLA?
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Old 1st August 2008, 07:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by José Miguel View Post
¿Por qué utilizan Seville en lugar del original SEVILLA?
Mania de la gente a cambiarlo para que sea mas facil a lo que estan acostumbrado pero el govierno de la China no lo quieren llamado Pekin.
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Old 13th August 2008, 09:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by José Miguel View Post
En España se sigue diciendo Pekín que es como todo el mundo conoce la ciudad (antes se escribía Pequín). La transcripción Beijing no la conoce la mayoría de los españoles y ni siquiera existe todavía una forma 'española' de pronunciarlo.
José Miguel ha dado en el clavo: a ver cómo se pronuncia Beijing en español

Por cierto, en francés, donde en teoría hasta deberían tener fonemas adecuados para pronunciarlo, la gente sigue utlizando Pékin en vez de Beijing. Hasta tal punto que ya no sé cual es la forma oficial de decirlo, si Pékin o Beijing o los dos.

Y en alemán, es Peking, y no pasa nada
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Old 13th August 2008, 10:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
José Miguel ha dado en el clavo: a ver cómo se pronuncia Beijing en español

Por cierto, en francés, donde en teoría hasta deberían tener fonemas adecuados para pronunciarlo, la gente sigue utlizando Pékin en vez de Beijing. Hasta tal punto que ya no sé cual es la forma oficial de decirlo, si Pékin o Beijing o los dos.

Y en alemán, es Peking, y no pasa nada
Alomejor deberian preguntarlo al govierno de la China?
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Old 13th August 2008, 10:53 AM   #16
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A ver, cuéntanos, por favor, ValenciaSon, que me tienes intrigada con esto del gobierno chino...

¿Qué es lo que han dicho exactamente? ¿Qué pasa, que Pekín/Pékin/Peking tiene un significado insultante o algo en chino?

Gracias de antemano por tu explicación
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Old 13th August 2008, 11:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
A ver, cuéntanos, por favor, ValenciaSon, que me tienes intrigada con esto del gobierno chino...

¿Qué es lo que han dicho exactamente? ¿Qué pasa, que Pekín/Pékin/Peking tiene un significado insultante o algo en chino?

Gracias de antemano por tu explicación
Pekin es una romantizacion del nombre Beijing porque el nombre preferido por ser correcto, era muy dificil para los del oeste.
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Old 13th August 2008, 11:13 AM   #18
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[quote=ValenciaSon;58784]Pekin es una romantizacion del nombre Beijing porque el nombre preferido por ser correcto, era muy dificil para los del oeste.[/quote]

Not quite....

"We should not imagine that all of the citizens of China pronounce the two tetragraphs that make up the name of the Chinese capital in the same manner. Instead, we find people from Canton saying Pakking, people from Meihsien saying Petkin, people from Amoy saying Pokking, people
from Swatow saying
Pakkiii,people from Fuchow saying Pceyqking, and people from Shanghai and Suchow saying Paqchin. It is curious that all of these pronunciations resemble our Peking more than they do MSM Beijing."
[Sino-Platonic Papers, #19, June 1990, "Backhill/Peking/Beijing"]
http://www.sino-platonic.org/

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Old 13th August 2008, 11:22 AM   #19
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Ah, gracias pero no me estoy enterando de nada.

A ver, leyendo vuestros comentarios, ValenciaSon y Juanjo, creo entender que:
(1) a los occidentales les cuesta pronunciar Beijing

(2) de todas formas, las formas chinas de pronunciar el nombre de la ciudad suenan más parecidas a "Pekín" que a "Beijing"

(3) Sigo sin ver qué pinta el susodicho gobierno chino en el asunto de si, como europea, pronuncio o dejo de pronunciar Beijing o Pekín, o lo que pueda, dado el peaso acento que tengo en todos los idiomas de todas formas.
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Old 13th August 2008, 11:34 AM   #20
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And there re plenty more variations here. Or listen to the chinese and write your own phonetics
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck - then it's a duck! Pekin duck

"Nótese que la transcripción pinyin no resulta intuitiva para los hispanohablantes, ya que la pronunciación correspondiente, [pei214.tɕiŋ5] (escuchar), "
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