a few lines from a song...

[Eugene]

by Alfredo Pereira:
A veces me parece que tu nombre,
se mezcla hasta el cansancio con el mar.
Extrañas ironías las gaviotas,
que vuelan sin volar...no, no, no...

I am having trouble with the 3rd line
How is "Extrañas ironías" related to the "las gaviotas"???

Should it be
1. ..DE las gaviotas or
2. Extrañas ironías....;
Las gaviotas, que vuelan sin volar...no, no, no... (no link between them)

Gracias!

[88keys07]

A veces me parece que tu nombre,
se mezcla hasta el cansancio con el mar.
Extrañas ironías las gaviotas,
que vuelan sin volar...no, no, no...

Direct Translation:

Sometimes it seems that your name,
mixes until it grows tired with the sea
Strange ironies the seagulls,
that fly without flying...no, no, no...

I believe what he is trying to say is that the ironic thing is that "las gaviotas vuelan sin volar", they fly without actually flying. I can't really explain the grammar behind that construction well enough. I hope that helps some.

[Eugene]

Thanks a lot! That's a problem when you learn language from a song - you may encounter some fuzzy constructs ...On the other hand, it's fun

[Juanjo]

A veces me parece que tu nombre,
se mezcla hasta el cansancio con el mar.
Extrañas ironías las gaviotas,
que vuelan sin volar...no, no, no...

Another interpretation (not translation!) might be:

At times it seems to me
that your name merges endlessly with the sea.
Strange ironies (those) seagulls-
they disappear without flying! .... no...no..no

["hasta el cansancio" = "till blue in the face"]

[Eugene]

Juanjo,


I like this: ...your name merges endlessly with the sea...
I should say that in Russian the (almost) literal translation of hasta el cansancio - until exhaustion - bez ustali" - would actually sound most natural.

but: vuelan does not in any way mean "disappear" in Spanish, right?

Can I say: por que aprender Español, hay que practicar hasta el cansancio???

[Juanjo]

Originally Posted by Eugene

Juanjo,


I like this: ...your name merges endlessly with the sea...
I should say that in Russian the (almost) literal translation of hasta el cansancio - until exhaustion - bez ustali" - would actually sound most natural.

but: vuelan does not in any way mean "disappear" in Spanish, right?

Can I say: por que aprender Español, hay que practicar hasta el cansancio???

"Yes.. a slang use of "volar" is "to go away", "to rush away" (also "to be under the effect of drugs i.e. spaced out" but perhaps not in this context!)

and No... "para que aprenda" (subjunctive) or "para aprender"

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Eugene

Juanjo,

but: vuelan does not in any way mean "disappear" in Spanish, right?

Can I say: por que aprender Español, hay que practicar hasta el cansancio???

Vuela can mean disappear, but it is quite coloquial, for example

El dinero vuela a principio de mes.

I think that in this song vuela sin volar means fly without flying, just playing with the words.
En cuanto a que no haya verbo en la frase, esta construcción se utiliza en poesía si se da por sobreentendido.

Y como está por aquí Juanjo, te pondré un ejemplo de Lorca

Sobre el cielo negro,
culebrinas amarillas.

Vine a este mundo con ojos
y me voy sin ellos.
¡Señor del mayor dolor!
Y luego,
un velón y una manta
en el suelo.

[Eugene]

Thank you!

por que aprender sounds like an awfully bad Spanish I guess

--> tengo que practicar hasta el cansancio

[Eugene]

Pippa,

Thank you for sharing Lorca with me, too

I understand almost all in the verse (except velón - will look up in the dicto), as well as your comments - much appreciated. Still I don't see what is the "missing" verb" you are alluding to.

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Eugene

Thank you!

por que aprender sounds like an awfully bad Spanish I guess

--> tengo que practicar hasta el cansancio

Para aprender tengo que practicar hasta el cansancio.

Por y para, según parece, confunden a la gente.
English prepositions are not easy either.

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Eugene

Pippa,
Still I don't see what is the "missing" verb" you are alluding to.

Sobre el cielo negro, hay
culebrinas amarillas


Y luego,
hay or pon
un velón y una manta
en el suelo

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Eugene

by Alfredo Pereira:

Extrañas ironías las gaviotas,

Gracias!

Extrañas ironías son las gaviotas

[Juanjo]

Originally Posted by Pippa

Y como está por aquí Juanjo, te pondré un ejemplo de Lorca

Sobre el cielo negro,
culebrinas amarillas.

Vine a este mundo con ojos
y me voy sin ellos.
¡Señor del mayor dolor!
Y luego,
un velón y una manta
en el suelo.

de Lamentación de la Muerte
de Viñetas flamencas
de Poema del Canto Jondo (1921)
[dedicado a Miguel Benítez Inglott y Aurina, conocido como "Colichi", "Miguelito" ( de las Canarias, pianista, compositor, más tarde director de Fiat y Citroën, amigote de Lorca y Rafael Martínez Nadal.)

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Juanjo

de Lamentación de la Muerte
de Viñetas flamencas
de Poema del Canto Jondo (1921)
[dedicado a Miguel Benítez Inglott y Aurina, conocido como "Colichi", "Miguelito" ( de las Canarias, pianista, compositor, más tarde director de Fiat y Citroën, amigote de Lorca y Rafael Martínez Nadal.)

¡Bravo!
Hombre, podíamos empezar otro juego español, poner una frase o un texto y a ver si la gente sabe de donde viene, y si no, dar pistas.

[Eugene]

Thanks for the missing verbs.

As for the game, it is certainly out of my league

--> I guess you should start a separate thread.

So far I've learned only one (but beautiful) verse. Quite certain it is universally known but still:

....que puesto que ella se parece a ellos
vivos están allá, muertos sin ella,
cristal, ébano, lino, oro, ámbar, grana

That will end my participation - for the lack of resources

Just tell me whether this one is indeed universally known ... sort of Friends, Romans, Countrymen...

[Pippa]

Sorry, I am drifting off, you are right.

[Eugene]

Thank you again for the helpful posts.

[Pippa]

Look, the only thing I could post about Canada would be lyrics of songs sang by Garou, Isabel Boulay, Natasha StPier, Rock Voisine, Corneille and a few others. My ignorance about Canada is massive. But anyway, we are here to learn, in this case about Spanish culture. I will have to think about this idea, because there are a lot of people who read Spanish and might work.

By the way, who is that poem by?

[Juanjo]

Originally Posted by Pippa

Look, the only thing I could post about Canada would be lyrics of songs sang by Garou, Isabel Boulay, Natasha StPier, Rock Voisine, Corneille and a few others. My ignorance about Canada is massive. But anyway, we are here to learn, in this case about Spanish culture. I will have to think about this idea, because there are a lot of people who read Spanish and might work.

By the way, who is that poem by?

Lope de Vega
"De la belleza de su amada"

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by Juanjo

Lope de Vega
"De la belleza de su amada"

There you are, that is what I was talking about.