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Old 27th February 2008, 09:58 PM   #41
Eriol
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Let a qualified American reply here; with our size and diversity, you can't say that Americans do or don't eat healthy. A lot of americans eat very unhealthy food, as evidenced by our health statistics. That however is also the product of our crappy healthcare system and suboptimal lifestyles.
Our healthcare system has absolutely nothing to do with people eating at McDonalds and loading up on buffets. Our healthcare system has problems, but obesity is not to be blamed on that. That comes from a lack of control at the kitchen table...but then again no one eats at the kitchen table, maybe thats part of the problem. And our meats are all steriod-ridden and given growth-hormones that indirectly are feed into the mouths of US citizens. In Argentina the meat is purer, without the steroids...although they are trying to start putting that crap in it....the world is just screwing itself.
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Old 28th February 2008, 12:06 AM   #42
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Our healthcare system has absolutely nothing to do with people eating at McDonalds and loading up on buffets. Our healthcare system has problems, but obesity is not to be blamed on that. That comes from a lack of control at the kitchen table...but then again no one eats at the kitchen table, maybe thats part of the problem. And our meats are all steriod-ridden and given growth-hormones that indirectly are feed into the mouths of US citizens. In Argentina the meat is purer, without the steroids...although they are trying to start putting that crap in it....the world is just screwing itself.
Our healthcare system has lots to do with our overall weight issues. There is no preventative care and patient teaching in our piece-meal healthcare system against behaviors which enable these avoidable weight issues. McDonalds' and the like would be less frequented otherwise.
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Old 28th February 2008, 12:41 AM   #43
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Our healthcare system has lots to do with our overall weight issues. There is no preventative care and patient teaching in our piece-meal healthcare system against behaviors which enable these avoidable weight issues. McDonalds' and the like would be less frequented otherwise.
Look I'm not American but from the second most obese nation (we follow the USA into every battle ) and I guess we're confronting something similar. I don't see why we should take people's money away from them, then use it to tell them they're spending their money the wrong way. Some people just don't want to be skinny. Either way I don't think it's the government's business.
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Old 28th February 2008, 01:17 AM   #44
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Look I'm not American but from the second most obese nation (we follow the USA into every battle ) and I guess we're confronting something similar. I don't see why we should take people's money away from them, then use it to tell them they're spending their money the wrong way. Some people just don't want to be skinny. Either way I don't think it's the government's business.
Besides all the medical and financial benefits health promotion, in the Preamble of the US Constitution there is a line that our forefathers wrote in which states "Promote the general welfare".
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Old 28th February 2008, 02:55 AM   #45
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Great post. A new site I found that may help with sticking to dieting is called http://stickk.com/
Thanks Ben, I love finding things like this to share with my patients!
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Old 28th February 2008, 06:02 AM   #46
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Besides all the medical and financial benefits health promotion, in the Preamble of the US Constitution there is a line that our forefathers wrote in which states "Promote the general welfare".
"Promote" not "pay for" and not "hold their little hand and feed them with a spoon". Anyone that doesn't know that a Big Mac is bad for you and broccolli is good for you has been ignorant of the warnings. If they would watch PBS instead of Family Guy they would find out in about five minutes. Not to mention, even our horrible education system has been promoting the food pyramid and 4 food groups and physical education to 1st-12th graders for decades now.

I believe that the main problem with our country that's tops everything else is the attitude that it is always someone else's fault or responsibility. No one can ever admit that "I don't have a job because I don't want to work for less than I can make on welfare" or "I don't want to work hard" or "I'm too good to flip burgers". No one can ever admit that "I can't afford college because I don't want to spend the time to apply for grants and scholorships" or "I can't go to college because I goofed off in high school and don't want to take remedial classes". No one can ever say that "I'm fat because I eat too much of the wrong foods".

Well guess what?! I'm fat because I eat too many tacos and cheeseburgers and don't even like to walk to my car in the McDonald's parking lot! It's not Bush's fault! It's not Clinton's fault! It IS my fault!

There is a big difference between helping those that need a hand once in awhile and doing it for them because they aren't willing to do it for themselves.
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Old 28th February 2008, 06:06 AM   #47
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I don't see why we should take people's money away from them, then use it to tell them they're spending their money the wrong way. Some people just don't want to be skinny. Either way I don't think it's the government's business.
Well put! I completely agree that we need to pay taxes for roads, defense, etc. but let me worry about paying for my own retirement and healthcare. I couldn't possibly do a worse job betting it all at the race track than the government has with Social Security!
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Old 28th February 2008, 12:22 PM   #48
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Lack of health promotion and lack of preventative care as witnessed in underdeveloped nations is what gets us, the US, 3rd world health statistics, despite how much money is spent in our ridiculous healthcare system. But we've let the market forces run our healthcare system and our department of agriculture so that is why we are where we are today.
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Old 28th February 2008, 01:12 PM   #49
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This shows that the US is spending more per capita (per person) than any other country in the world. Both in whole (insurance + government) and in government expenditures. This is from the World Health Organization:

http://www.who.int/nha/country/Annex...05,%202007.xls

http://www.who.int/nha/THE,cap%20US$_2004(200dpi).PNG
This ones kinda hard to read but you can zoom in and read it better

That kind of blows the whole theory that we don't spend enough on healthcare.

Listen world, we know good food from bad foods. We know what to eat and why we're fat. We know that we should get 30 min of aerobics 3 times a week. We do have healthcare. We have programs (WIC= Women Infant Children) that we give to lower income (A family of 4 can make $38,000) mothers and their children (under 5 I believe) that buys them more milk and cereal and cheese and formula than you ever want to see in your life. We have foodstamps that allow you to eat better than most middle class families (I know because I have been on them before). We just don't want to take the blame. It's always someone elses fault. Those of you who live in America should know this. We've just been brainwashed by CNN! If the news says it, it has to be true!

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/FAQs/faq.htm
WIC
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/
Medicaid
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Old 28th February 2008, 02:30 PM   #50
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Now only do we not spend enough, we don't spend it wisely, otherwise we wouldn't rank in the world so poorly in longevity, infant mortality and other health measures.
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Old 28th February 2008, 07:13 PM   #51
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Well put! I completely agree that we need to pay taxes for roads, defense, etc. but let me worry about paying for my own retirement and healthcare.
I don't want my government to spend too much money on bombs and other weapons of mass destruction, but I do expect my government to spend my taxes on health care and social security! If paying taxes means I have to spend less time worrying about some of my basic human needs, fine with me.

Last edited by Edith; 28th February 2008 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 28th February 2008, 07:22 PM   #52
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We've just been brainwashed by CNN! If the news says it, it has to be true!
As opposed to what, Fair and Balanced Fox News?
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:11 PM   #53
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As opposed to what, Fair and Balanced Fox News?
The US seems to have serious issues with the idea of the political scale.

In the US;
the extreme right wing is just right wing
the right wing is centre-right
the centre-rights are centrists
the centrists are socialists
the centre-lefts are crazy liberals
and the socialists are communists

It is the right wing (not that I dis/agree with their views - this is beside the point) that has been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the US population and skew things this way. If liberal is a dirty word, conservative is too.
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:13 PM   #54
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In Holland, junk food has been around for a long time, although many people like to thumb their noses at the United States. But the food which is served at McDonald's or at Burger King isn't any worse than our home-grown fries and meaty snacks. Countries like Holland are catching up rapidly as far as fast-food culture is concerned, and some people had lousy eating habits long before McDonald's opened its first restaurants here in the early 1970s. People now eat junk food in ever larger quantities.

Yesterday I saw a programme about a Dutch family which didn't eat vegetables at all - they had fries and burgers for dinner every day of the week, all covered in rich layers of mayonnaise, ketchup and satay sauce!

According to those who are opposed to the 'nanny state' concept of Big Government, the authorities should refrain from interfering here. But how about the children who grow up in these families? They have got no choice in the matter, and they will become adults without even knowing what real vegetables or fruits taste like! And of course, they will develop all kinds of health problems as a result.

The 10-year-old boy in the program was experiencing problems at school because he was bad at sports - yet he didn't have a clue where his weight problems came from. We shouldn't expect children to bear this responsibility, and I don't mind some government interference in this matter. Yes, of course the parents should know better, but perhaps we are overestimating the intelligence of some people.

For those of you who are interested, here is an article from El País Semanal about longevity in Okinawa, a Japanese community famous for its healthy eating habits:

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/porta...pepspor_11/Tes

According to the article, new Western eating habits are having a dramatic impact on the younger generation's life expectancy.

Last edited by Edith; 28th February 2008 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:21 PM   #55
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This shows that the US is spending more per capita (per person) than any other country in the world. Both in whole (insurance + government) and in government expenditures.
That is because the commercialization of health care has led to skyrocketing costs. The pharmaceutical and insurance companies are lining their pockets with your hard-earned money, and they are growing ever more rich as a result. It doesn't mean good-quality, affordable healthcare is available to the population as a whole - people who flip hamburgers have to rely on second-rate healthcare. I think these facilities should be the same for everyone.

Last edited by Edith; 28th February 2008 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 28th February 2008, 08:27 PM   #56
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The US seems to have serious issues with the idea of the political scale.

In the US;
the extreme right wing is just right wing
the right wing is centre-right
the centre-rights are centrists
the centrists are socialists
the centre-lefts are crazy liberals
and the socialists are communists

It is the right wing (not that I dis/agree with their views - this is beside the point) that has been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the US population and skew things this way. If liberal is a dirty word, conservative is too.
In a country such as the US, which has only 2 dominant political parties, it tends to be polar or binary, if you will, even though a fair number of us know the truth can lie somewhere in the middle. However, I am proud to call myself a liberal.
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Old 28th February 2008, 11:33 PM   #57
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I don't want my government to spend too much money on bombs and other weapons of mass destruction, but I do expect my government to spend my taxes on health care and social security! If paying taxes means I have to spend less time worrying about some of my basic human needs, fine with me.
Exactly. What should we spend our tax money on if not our health, education and future? I sure don't like spending trillions on a war that kills Americans and profits oil companies. Our healthcare system is flawed no matter how much per capita we spend on it. Why is it so wrong to adopt a system that's been proven elsewhere?
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Old 29th February 2008, 12:00 AM   #58
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Big Pharma and Managed Care buys the most amount of lobbyists and hence legislators in the US, which is why we are stuck with this medical mosaic of dysfunctionality referred to as the US healthcare system. Big ag follows suit as well so of course we are going to have healthcare statistics of a 3rd world nation. The line thrown here is how free we are supposed to feel in the US because we don't have those pesky government socialist programs forcing us to have a real healthcare system as do all the other developed nations.
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Old 29th February 2008, 03:37 PM   #59
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That is because the commercialization of health care has led to skyrocketing costs.
You mean free enterprise is bad? Socialism is good?

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It doesn't mean good-quality, affordable healthcare is available to the population as a whole - people who flip hamburgers have to rely on second-rate healthcare. I think these facilities should be the same for everyone.
NOT TRUE! I think I mentioned this earlier. I used to be "poor". I was on Medicaid. Your choice of doctors are usually more than most private insurance with their "in network" doctors. There is not a side of the street that is only Medicaid doctors and another side that is rich people doctors. I'm not saying that ALL doctors accept Medicaid but they don't ALL accept all private insurance either.

As a matter of fact, doctors usually try to give you more when you are on Medicaid than most HMO/PPO because "the government is paying for it" (i.e., me and you).

(Question outside this discussion)I don't know about second rate healthcare so I can't speek about the doctors of hospitals too much but I have seen the inside of many ambulances in Europe and they appeared to be not much more than taxis for the dying. They had not much more than an oxygen tank, first aid kit, and 2 guys to throw the poor soul on a meat slab. Ours are Mobile Intensive Care Units that practically look like a miniature ER. Atleast here I know that I'm going to make it to the hospital to get my second-rate healthcare. What is the mortality rate like in Europe for people that need to be transported.

P.S. You do know that Social Security is going broke, right?? It won't be here for me to see. I can imagine the healthcare system following suit with the above example I have given.

Last edited by saiguanas; 29th February 2008 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 29th February 2008, 03:48 PM   #60
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Free enterprise at the expense of our health is bad. Medicaid barely covers long term hospitalization and forces seniors to spend all their assets before covering them at all.
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