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Old 26th February 2009, 05:15 PM   #41
Juanjo
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To elaborate on my previous comment - I think the IOU is considered by economists to be broad money (M4), while the money you gave to your friend is narrow money (M0). So I don't think they are considered to be the same kind of money, although they are both forms of money that can be exchanged (to an extent). By accepting the IOU and considering it to be a form of money, you have increased the amount of money in circulation by 50 euros: where before only you had 50€, now both you and your friend think you have €50 each (even though your friend is obliged to pay you back 50€ sometime in the future). Furthermore, I believe that by increasing the money supply you have devalued money (caused inflation) so it is fair that you charge your friend some interest on those €50.

(BTW I don't understand this stuff very well so I'd welcome any comments from someone who does)

Milton Friedman and the Chicago Boys redux!
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Old 26th February 2009, 08:14 PM   #42
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If you have a new axe to grind, it ain't the old one.
And without a doubt, you NEVER forget where you bury the hatchet.
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Old 26th February 2009, 09:18 PM   #43
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Anyway I notice Ben has been very quiet since getting us all going
But he's not the "same" Ben anymore.
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Old 26th February 2009, 10:35 PM   #44
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But he's not the "same" Ben anymore.
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:17 AM   #45
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But he's not the "same" Ben anymore.
Ben who?

(Actually, I'm still here, it's just that I always knew it's still the same axe, so nothing to argue about )
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:08 AM   #46
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Ben who?

(Actually, I'm still here, it's just that I always knew it's still the same axe, so nothing to argue about )
Well the DNA is the same, anyway.
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Old 27th February 2009, 09:41 AM   #47
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Ben who?

(Actually, I'm still here, it's just that I always knew it's still the same axe, so nothing to argue about )
But surely that depends on what you mean by "knew"?
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Old 27th February 2009, 10:03 AM   #48
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What about the wood that is cut by the axe everyday.
Is it the same wood too?

And the woodcutter. Is he/she the same?

Yes. Nothing ever changes. The same woodcutter has been cutting the same wood with the same axe since the dawning of time.
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:27 PM   #49
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What about the wood that is cut by the axe everyday.
Is it the same wood too?

And the woodcutter. Is he/she the same?

Yes. Nothing ever changes. The same woodcutter has been cutting the same wood with the same axe since the dawning of time.
But... something else that perplexes me... if the your woodcutter is deaf, and there is no one else around, does the blow of the axe on the wood make a sound?!
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:07 PM   #50
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But... something else that perplexes me... if the your woodcutter is deaf, and there is no one else around, does the blow of the axe on the wood make a sound?!
What if that deaf woodcutter borrows your podcasting device?
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:07 PM   #51
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But... something else that perplexes me... if the your woodcutter is deaf, and there is no one else around, does the blow of the axe on the wood make a sound?!

Aayyyy!!!! Now we are into Zen Buddhism and the silence of trees falling in a deserted wood! The concept fails as no wood is entirely deserted of mammals able to hear!


[All philosophers should be condemned to searching for corners in a circular room!]
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:08 PM   #52
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But... something else that perplexes me... if the your woodcutter is deaf, and there is no one else around, does the blow of the axe on the wood make a sound?!
What do you mean by "sound"?
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:09 PM   #53
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Aayyyy!!!! Now we are into Zen Buddhism and the silence of trees falling in a deserted wood! The concept fails as no wood is entirely deserted of mammals able to hear!


[All philosophers should be condemned to searching for corners in a circular room!]
A big round of (one hand clapping) applause for Juanjo.
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:10 PM   #54
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Aayyyy!!!! Now we are into Zen Buddhism and the silence of trees falling in a deserted wood! The concept fails as no wood is entirely deserted of mammals able to hear!


[All philosophers should be condemned to searching for corners in a circular room!]
There are still air molecules and other matter to vibrate whose nature does not change whether or not it vibrates a tympanic membrane.
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:11 PM   #55
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If a man stand alone in the middle of the desert with no women to hear what he says, is he still wrong??
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:13 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
There are still air molecules and other matter to vibrate whose nature does not change whether or not it vibrates a tympanic membrane.
It wouldn't be the "same" sound though, as by "observing" the "event" you would "change" it.
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:14 PM   #57
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science? anyone? no? OK not to worry, carry on 'philosiphising'
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:32 PM   #58
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My thoughts on the original question are that the axe is both the same and different, things are only what the individual perceives them to be, so if the owner of the axe (or anyone else) perceives it to be the same or different, then that is what it is.
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:33 PM   #59
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If a man stand alone in the middle of the desert with no women to hear what he says, is he still wrong??
Jajaja !!!
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Old 27th February 2009, 01:35 PM   #60
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science? anyone? no? OK not to worry, carry on 'philosiphising'
Philosophy of science? (I believe Karl Popper's your man for that)
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