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Old 6th February 2010, 10:36 PM   #21
eldeano
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Terrorists can strike anywhere. However, for maximum impact they would look to blow up an aircraft in the sky rather than the same number of passengers on the ground - especially if it's a US carrier bound for the US.

There are dangerous people out there. If I have to parade every day in front of a scanner to reduce the chances of one of them becoming front page news, so be it.
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Old 7th February 2010, 12:50 PM   #22
switch007
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(I'm not going to respond to previous points, though you're probably right in what some of you said )

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldeano View Post
Terrorists can strike anywhere. However, for maximum impact they would look to blow up an aircraft in the sky rather than the same number of passengers on the ground - especially if it's a US carrier bound for the US.

There are dangerous people out there. If I have to parade every day in front of a scanner to reduce the chances of one of them becoming front page news, so be it.
It's that kind of repetition of phrases that makes me sad. Are those truly your own words? Of course they can strike anywhere. It's whether they actually will, the probabilities and the frequency that actually matter. An aircraft could be a big attack, but so could London Waterloo train station at 5.30pm. So could a large headquarters of an international company. Are you going to fear every place where there is a large collection of people? It does no good honing in on that particular threat of airplanes because it's sensationalist, popular and is using the heart strings of everyone affected by 11/9/2001. The fear is spread and exacerbated by the media.

A terrorist will probably choose a US-bound plane because it will (as history has proven):

a) Be shown in nearly every newspaper around the world.
b) cause multiple governments to take knee-jerk reactions
c) Make said government take drastic measures that take away our freedom and liberties.

It's our fear of terrorism, our love for the media, hidden interests and our belief that it's entirely the government's responsibility to take every measure to ensure our 100% safety, at all times, everywhere that enables the above.
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Old 7th February 2010, 02:46 PM   #23
Juanjo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switch007 View Post
A terrorist will probably choose a US-bound plane because it will (as history has proven):

a) Be shown in nearly every newspaper around the world.
b) cause multiple governments to take knee-jerk reactions
c) Make said government take drastic measures that take away our freedom and liberties.

It's our fear of terrorism, our love for the media, hidden interests and our belief that it's entirely the government's responsibility to take every measure to ensure our 100% safety, at all times, everywhere that enables the above.
If you don't mind my saying so, that is a little unfair on ElDeano. What I think he is saying is that:

1. Life is risky- live with it!
2. Terrorist PR prefers transatlantic aircraft targets.
3. Anything that can be done to reduce risk should be considered.

You are correct in that we all should be vigilant and be prepared to take personal action if we think a serious risk to ourselves and others is about to occur.

The "Look out for abandoned packages" advertising was successful to alert people to risks- even though a friend's case was taken away and blown up by the security folks when he absent-mindedly left it behind for a few moments in an airport and one our computer engineers had his oscilloscope destroyed by an Army robot in the back of his van parked in a Belfast street!
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Old 7th February 2010, 04:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switch007 View Post
It's that kind of repetition of phrases that makes me sad. Are those truly your own words? Of course they can strike anywhere. It's whether they actually will, the probabilities and the frequency that actually matter. An aircraft could be a big attack, but so could London Waterloo train station at 5.30pm. So could a large headquarters of an international company. Are you going to fear every place where there is a large collection of people? It does no good honing in on that particular threat of airplanes because it's sensationalist, popular and is using the heart strings of everyone affected by 11/9/2001. The fear is spread and exacerbated by the media.
I suspect that COBRA risk assessments would support the view I've taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by switch007 View Post
A terrorist will probably choose a US-bound plane because it will (as history has proven):

a) Be shown in nearly every newspaper around the world.
b) cause multiple governments to take knee-jerk reactions
c) Make said government take drastic measures that take away our freedom and liberties.
Don't forget the global economic impact - look what happened to airlines after 9-11. That's why a Waterloo Station attack (local impact) is less likely.
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Old 7th February 2010, 04:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juanjo View Post
What I think he is saying is that:

1. Life is risky- live with it!
2. Terrorist PR prefers transatlantic aircraft targets.
3. Anything that can be done to reduce risk should be considered.
Exactly. I just wish I could have put it as succinctly as you.
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Old 7th February 2010, 09:17 PM   #26
switch007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juanjo View Post
If you don't mind my saying so, that is a little unfair on ElDeano. What I think he is saying is that:

Sorry! I didn't mean to single out eldeano, my remarks weren't directly at just him.

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Originally Posted by Juanjo View Post
The "Look out for abandoned packages" advertising was successful to alert people to risks- even though a friend's case was taken away and blown up by the security folks when he absent-mindedly left it behind for a few moments in an airport and one our computer engineers had his oscilloscope destroyed by an Army robot in the back of his van parked in a Belfast street!
What risks? Successful how? Do you believe, for example, finding 3 bombs, over a 10 year period, warrants massive campaigns instructing us to be vigilant at all times, to report anything slightly untoward, to suspect anything that looks "dodgy"?

It's done nothing else but make us more fearful and intolerant against anything or anybody that looks "a bit dodgy." I've left a bag on a train platform before while I was striding up and down talking on the phone. I probably got about 10 metres away from it and a member of staff came up to me, rudely interrupted me and asked if that bag was mine. He then instructed me to go and accompany it.

In the UK we have a "terrorist hotline" at a cost of £120,000. I'd be interested in filing a Freedom of Information request (probably not applicable to the Met Police...) for how many successful arrests of a terrorist there have been as a direct result of this hotline. This hotline is part of the "suspect everything" campaign. Take a look at these: http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/c..._road_cctv.pdf and http://www.met.police.uk/campaigns/c...09_posters.pdf .

The met tell us that 80 percent of calls contains information that relates to terrorist activity. However, they encourage you to report .. "... a property where there is unusual activity or strange comings and goings that don't fit day-to-day life" and people that hire vans, own large quantities of phones (my housemate buys and sells mobile phones, is he a terrorist? Quick, TO THE PHONE!), people who travel without disclosing details to you.

I think I'll end the discussion here. Anyone who challenges the normal these days comes off as a whackjob. Granted I could collect my thoughts a little more coherently but I can't say I spend hours on the internet at the weekends..
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Old 7th February 2010, 09:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
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What risks? Successful how? .
Presumably you also do not believe in any kind of insurance?
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Old 18th February 2010, 09:49 PM   #28
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I couldn`t care less about using body scanners. I`ve got the same as other males, nothing to hide. In fact give me the option of being patted down or standing in front of a machine give me the machine any day.

As for whether they`re as effective as we`d like to imagine they are, that`s a different matter.
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