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#1 |
Mega Forero
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Mexico, US
Posts: 434
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Lo, Le, y La
No puedo usarlos correctamente para salvar mi vida. Podrían explicarme cuando usar cuál forma? Parezco usar le donde debería usar lo y vice versa, y me frustra mucho. Creo que si podrían mostrarme con ejemplos en español y inglés, lo entendería mejor, pero es sólo una sugerencia. Ahora, siempre pienso en "lo" como "it", pero sé que debe ser más complicado. |
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#2 |
Hero Forero
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pego, Spain
Posts: 3,363
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The way I understood it:
It's about direct or indirect objects. When you use a pronoun for an object with a verb you use a direct object: Lo compré ayer - I bought it yesterday Tengo que comprarlo - I must buy it The full set are me, te, lo, la, nos, os, los, las (me, you, it, it (fem) us, you, them) If you refer to a person as a direct object "lo" or "la" would apply but you don't do that. Always with people its "a lo" or "a la" = "le", the indirect object (in English to him, to her) Le veré hoy - I will see him (or her) today Iré a verla - I am going to see her The full set are me, te, le, nos, os, les (me, you, he, she us, you, them) For simplicity the way you think of lo/la = it and le = him/her is probably all you need, as all the others are the same words in Spanish but be aware there will be a few times when that is too simple. Referring to people using "lo/la" even has its own name in Spanish "loismo" as does referring to inanimate objects with "le" - leismo. Both are considered poor practice. |
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#3 | |
Forero
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Málaga, Spain
Posts: 33
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#4 | |
Super Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 137
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As greytop pointed up above, lo and la translate as "it" when referring to objects and him when referring to persons. "Le" would translate as (to/for) him or her, although it may seem a bit tricky, as to or for do not always appear in English, but you can always add it mentally. For "lo" and "la", the prepositions to or for would never be correct. e.g. I give her the book would be "Le doy el libro", because even if you would normally say "I give her the book", you can also say I give the book "to" her. However, you would say "La vi ayer", because in English it would be "I saw her yesterday", and you could not add the prepositions "to" or "for". Remember that you cannot use le + lo/la in the same phrase, so in those cases "le" is substituted by "se". e.g. Se lo doy - but not "le lo doy" (I give it to her/him). I hope that made sense. P.S. In Spain, the incorrect use of "le" for "lo" when referring to male persons is so widespread that it has become acceptable now, so you will hear it all the time in Spanish TV for instance, but I would keep away from that and stick to the rule provided by greytop. Last edited by Urgellenk; 21st August 2010 at 08:01 PM. |
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#5 | |
Mega Forero
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Mexico, US
Posts: 434
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#6 | |
Mega Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Inglaterra
Posts: 383
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Le veré hoy - I will see him (or her) today. So why from Greytops explanation is this "le" (as you can't add the "to" or "for" prepositions) I see him/her (direct object) la veré I will see her. Le veré- I will see him? Last edited by mightykaboosh; 22nd August 2010 at 01:10 AM. |
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#7 |
Super Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 137
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As I explained, "le" is also accepted nowadays as the pronoun that substitutes a direct object referring to male persons. The phenomenon of "leísmo" is due to the confusion originated by the fact that direct objects referring to people are introduced by the preposition "a" and look like indirect objects.
e.g. "Veo a mi amigo" - I see my friend. Both forms, le veo and lo veo, are now accepted in these cases, although "le" (originally a mistake) is more widespread in most of Spain, but if I was having problems with these pronouns I would forget about this exception and would stick to the original rule of using "lo" for all direct objects. |
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#8 |
Mega Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Inglaterra
Posts: 383
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Ok, thanks I just needed to clarify this as I've been having problems with the pronouns for about 2 years
![]() Le veo - I see him/ her (leismo, strictly speaking incorrect) Lo veo - I see him. La veo - I see her. If that is it, I've finally got it ![]() ![]() I have one further question on this. Give it to him: (How's this work with the imperitive) déle la pelota? how's it work if you remove "la pelota" se la dé? / désela Last edited by mightykaboosh; 22nd August 2010 at 01:30 PM. |
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#9 |
Jedi Forero
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madrid
Posts: 1,848
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Little point on the veré / veo thing.
I told my intercambio "Tú veré mañana" and she said the future wasn't necessary. So now I say "Tú veo mañana" and that is correct. Why! I don't know. That's what they say! |
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#10 |
Mega Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Inglaterra
Posts: 383
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Isn't that te veo? Wouldn't tú veo be I see your?
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#11 | |
Hero Forero
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pego, Spain
Posts: 3,363
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Normally separately before the verb indirect object / direct object / verb NB: If both are needed and the indirect object is "le" change it to a "se" as you did in your example But after the verb (and added to it) with 1. the infinitive (darselo) 2. the gerund (dandoselo) 3. the affirmative imperative (daselo) Note: with the negative imperative they go before the verb (no se lo des) I knew those old notes would come in handy one day ![]() |
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#12 |
Mega Forero
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Inglaterra
Posts: 383
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Thanks Greytop, but why is it not déselo? (I know this is going off topic so I'll apologise now for hijacking the thread)
I thought commands were always in the third person singular? If I go onto wordreference: presente da dé demos dad den If I said to someone "buy it" (they're not a friend of mine, so I'm not using the tú form i.e compra) Wouldn't that be comprelo? Is there a special rule because there's no yo form in the imperative? presente compra compre compremos comprad compren Last edited by mightykaboosh; 22nd August 2010 at 05:16 PM. |
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#13 | |
Hero Forero
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pego, Spain
Posts: 3,363
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Their examples Conocí a tu primo - Lo conocí o Le conocí (leísmo using le instead of lo) Vi al cartero - Lo vi o Le vi Acepté el encargo - Lo acepté (never Le acepté) Vi a Luisa - La vi (never Le vi) Just to add one more layer of complexity. They go on to talk of Laísmo (using la/las instead of le/les for indirect object) and Loísmo (using lo/los instead of le/les) Going back to my post#2 "For simplicity the way you think of lo/la = it and le = him/her is probably all you need...." Unless you're in S.America, or Southern Spain or .... ![]() |
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#14 | |
Mega Forero
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Mexico, US
Posts: 434
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#15 | |
Hero Forero
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pego, Spain
Posts: 3,363
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![]() More often than not the 3rd person form will be used, but not exclusively. So you can say to your friend : (Tu) Me compra un café Or to a group of them : Me comprad un café The negative form uses the subjunctive form of the verb and again can be 2nd, 3rd or plural forms. Right - I'm off to sort my replacement driving license - another chance to practise some oral skills ![]() |
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#16 | |
El Chele
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ocean City MD and Guanacaste Nicaragua
Posts: 103
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"Tu" is a subject pronoun so cannot be used in that phrase. In regard to your other question..... in spanish, it is common and acceptable to use the present tense to express the future, at times. A very common phrase is to say..."nos vemos" (referring to a future encounter) but you will hear people sometimes say "nos veremos". |
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#17 | |
Mega Forero
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Madrid (Arganzuela)
Posts: 834
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e.g. "Tomorrow we are going shopping" or "Tomorrow we'll go shoppping" They mean pretty much the same thing and AFAIK can be used interchangeably. However in English the phrase "I'm seeing you tomorrow" (using the present tense) sounds inappropriate when saying goodbye to someone, while "I'll see you tomorrow" sounds fine. I'm not sure why, it just does. Maybe it's because the phrase "I'm seeing you tomorrow" is more declarative while the phrase "I'll see you tomorrow" implies less certainty and leaves it open? So it seems strange that in Spanish if you say "te veré mañana" (using the future tense) it sounds wrong and you should use the present tense ("te veo mañana") instead. I'd be interested in knowing if there is a reason behind this. |
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#18 | |
El Chele
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ocean City MD and Guanacaste Nicaragua
Posts: 103
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"Tomorrow, we'll go shopping" is the future tense in english since "we'll" is the contraction for "we shall" and therefore "future". However,it is true that in english we use the "present progressive tense" as the future. IE.... "I am working tomorrow"...."They are arriving next week",,, etc, etc... Oh, by the way, although it is strictly correct to use "shall" with the first person singular and plural in english (I and WE), only the very formal Brits do it that way!!!! In the states we all use "will" when we should be using "shall"! |
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#19 |
Jedi Forero
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madrid
Posts: 1,848
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Of course it is. Don't know why I made that howler. t shows I need my intercambio back from her vacation - pronto.
Write out 100 times TE veo, TE veo .....! However, if I remember correctly, Tú is you (polite form) and Tu is your. |
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#20 | ||
Mega Forero
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Madrid (Arganzuela)
Posts: 834
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