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Old 17th October 2006, 02:12 AM   #1
Laguiri
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Unhappy Racismo

Obviously a very sensitive topic for people. I have to say I was quite surprised by some peoples attitudes in Spain. (I lived there a year) I'm from Canada, which is one of the most multicultural countries in the world, and we are very well adjusted to immigration and people of other cultures. I found however in Spain that there is definately a significant section of the population with bias. Clearly not everyone, by any means, but I ran into it often enough to really take note of it. I'm sure most people already know about what's happened with futbol in Spain and racismo. There is also a program there called Humor Amarillo which I find quite offensive. Asian peoples in Spain are usually refered to as chinos, despite the fact they're japoneses or vietnamitas o lo que sea. Este racismo hacia personas me choco muchisimo porque pensaba que Espana era un pais muy progresivo. Oi muchas veces quejas sobre los gitanos, que son unos vagos etcetera...La cosa es que los espanoles no quieren reconocer este racismo ya que se ven muy progresivos. Siempre hablan del racismo de EEUU pero nunca del racismo que sigue en su propio pais. No se ve nunca una minoridad en la tele. Entiendo que mucha gente se pone nerviosa con toda la inmigracion que va occurriendo alli que no estan acostumbrados, pero me parece que el problema es que no quieren reconocer esto. Antes de vivir en Espana me parecia que habia mucho machismo lo cual no halle, sino este racismo que no esperaba. Esto lo digo por mi experiencia personal. Que os opinais? Did I just have the chance to run into these particular people with biases?
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Old 17th October 2006, 02:32 AM   #2
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I have heard of some professional football players of color complain of the treatment they receive in some locations in Spain, while playing. I think a large part of that comes from those extremist groups whose names I forget but are sort of Spain's contigent of the skinheads and other such ultranationalists who want a "pure" Spain. I wouldn't say that fairly characterizes what Spain is like as a whole as I've also heard that other footballers of color like Rodinho love it in Spain and has moved his family from Brazil to live in Barcelona permanently.

As an American,I definitely can't tell you what it's like to live in a country without racism. But then again, who can?
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Old 17th October 2006, 02:42 AM   #3
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I'm curious about what your race/ethnicity is and what specifically you encountered in Spain.

I live in NYC, which obviously is a very culturally diverse area.

One thing I noticed in Spain (granted, my exposure is mostly to caucasians in Spain who are 30-50 years old) is that they seem to be a lot less politically correct. They often use "labels" and stereotypes that we would find a bit offensive in North America (not that we aren't guilty of thinking them here, you're just less likely to hear them out loud). However, I don't think this just applies to race/ethnicity/stereotypes as my friends in Madrid would be quick to tell me if I was getting "fat", or if something I was wearing was "ugly" or if I looked "like crap" that day.

I'm used to being very direct, but even still, some of the things I find in Spain still take me by surprise sometimes.

Last edited by Flexichick; 17th October 2006 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 17th October 2006, 02:51 AM   #4
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Flexichick, are you asking me about my race/ethnicity?

Isn't it obvious?


I'M SCANDINAVIAN!

But you can call me Jose
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Old 17th October 2006, 02:53 AM   #5
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Not asking you, Valencia, am asking Laguiri!
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Old 17th October 2006, 03:15 AM   #6
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As long as there are humans, there will be racism, unfortunately.

José --- sounds quite Scandinavian to me!
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Old 17th October 2006, 09:56 AM   #7
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Racism is everywhere and the most racist people are just the ones that deny by all means they are ethnically biased.

Racism is a disease that occurs in all ethnic groups, even among those who are racially discriminated.

It is true that in Spain, political correctness is not as acute as in the US, and most people would just refer to Asians as 'Chinos' without neccesarily having to have a negative significance.

I couldn´t tell if in Spain there is more of a racist attitude as in any other country of Europe, or the US.

One other thing has to be taken into consideration. The inmigration inflow in the last decade in Spain has been tremendous, about the biggest in the world. Until the mid nineties Spain was the most homogeneous ethnic country in all of the western world, now one out of every ten people living in Spain were born abroad and almost 20% of the newborns in Spain have inmigrant parents.

The advantages of multiculturalism are obvious, and I think an ethnic diverse society is a richer one, but some problems have also arosen, and it is particulary dodgy to point them out, but in the end some people are liable to simplify the diagnosis of the problems of a complex society by labeling people in ethnic groups, which is just the root of racism.
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Old 17th October 2006, 11:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Flexichick View Post
One thing I noticed in Spain (granted, my exposure is mostly to caucasians in Spain who are 30-50 years old) is that they seem to be a lot less politically correct. They often use "labels" and stereotypes that we would find a bit offensive in North America (not that we aren't guilty of thinking them here, you're just less likely to hear them out loud). However, I don't think this just applies to race/ethnicity/stereotypes as my friends in Madrid would be quick to tell me if I was getting "fat", or if something I was wearing was "ugly" or if I looked "like crap" that day.
While deploring racism of any kind I say bravo to those who do not pander to this contemporary madness we call "political correctness". In fact in my experience, the use of pc euphemisms just makes things worse. It seems their users are hiding their real feelings. Far better to call a spade a spade.

Mind you, I do not advocate that sort of "home truth" bluntness that tends to downright rudeness. However, as a weight enhanced, vertically challanged, silver haired wrinkly I do not see why I can't be short, fat and getting on a bit, which is the truth of the matter. (Though I'm seriously doing something about the weight bit!)

The arabs with whom I work address anyone they can't remember the name of by the nationality. It is not uncommon to hear, "Hey! Paki, Filipini, Malti" when they wish to attract someone's attention. "Asian" in the UK refers to someone from India or Pakistan. If someone is black, brown, yellow or pink why is it worse to describe them as such then tall, short or hunchbacked?
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Old 17th October 2006, 12:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ValenciaSon View Post
As an American,I definitely can't tell you what it's like to live in a country without racism. But then again, who can?
Real racists (the ones who believe in racial purity and who believe there is a connection between pigmentation and intelligence) can be found anywhere.

Last week, a white supremacist on a Dutch discussion board said I didn't have the right to call myself Dutch because of my appearance (he had found my picture on Flickr, the same avatar I use here). Some people are just full off ****.
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Old 17th October 2006, 12:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by richardksa View Post
While deploring racism of any kind I say bravo to those who do not pander to this contemporary madness we call "political correctness". In fact in my experience, the use of pc euphemisms just makes things worse. It seems their users are hiding their real feelings.
You've got a point there.
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Old 17th October 2006, 01:17 PM   #11
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Real racists (the ones who believe in racial purity and who believe there is a connection between pigmentation and intelligence) can be found anywhere.

Last week, a white supremacist on a Dutch discussion board said I didn't have the right to call myself Dutch because of my appearance (he had found my picture on Flickr, the same avatar I use here). Some people are just full off ****.
Wow, that's horrible. Perhaps he might be a bit surprised if he had a DNA test- he might find a few drops in his gene pool to be unsettling.
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Old 17th October 2006, 01:49 PM   #12
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Last week, a white supremacist on a Dutch discussion board said I didn't have the right to call myself Dutch because of my appearance (he had found my picture on Flickr, the same avatar I use here). Some people are just full off ****.
You should have been wearing clogs and standing in front of a windmill. That's how I aways tell a dutch person. Er, what is a real dutch person meant to look like then?
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Old 17th October 2006, 04:30 PM   #13
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You should have been wearing clogs and standing in front of a windmill. That's how I aways tell a dutch person. Er, what is a real dutch person meant to look like then?
Argh! The stereotypes!!!!! Pure racism!!!! So politically incorrect!!!
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Old 17th October 2006, 04:57 PM   #14
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You should have been wearing clogs and standing in front of a windmill. That's how I aways tell a dutch person. Er, what is a real dutch person meant to look like then?

Better clogs than these things (crocs). Have you guys been seeing them around? They're all over the US and supposed to be super-comfortable, but I don't think these things belong in public (unless you happen to be gardening in public).


http://shop.crocs.com/pc-15-4-beach....ction=products


Signed,
Flexichick (a "white girl" who now prefers to be called "pigment challenged" ).

Last edited by Flexichick; 17th October 2006 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 17th October 2006, 05:12 PM   #15
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Wow, that's horrible. Perhaps he might be a bit surprised if he had a DNA test- he might find a few drops in his gene pool to be unsettling.
Methinks so too!
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Old 17th October 2006, 05:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by richardksa View Post
You should have been wearing clogs and standing in front of a windmill. That's how I aways tell a dutch person.


@ Flexichick

Quote:
Better clogs than these things (crocs). Have you guys been seeing them around? They're all over the US and supposed to be super-comfortable, but I don't think these things belong in public
Arrgh they are ugly! :-)

Last edited by Edith; 17th October 2006 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 17th October 2006, 06:15 PM   #17
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Better clogs than these things (crocs).
They sell them here in UK too, I fail to see the attraction! All right for on the beach I suppose, but they hardly look the height of fashion, do they?
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Old 17th October 2006, 10:12 PM   #18
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@ Flexichick



Arrgh they are ugly! :-)

But sooo comfortable! Walk a mile in a pair of crocs and you'll see why people wear them, regardless of appearance. I sported a hot pink pair all summer, but no matter how comfy, I just can't bring myself to go for the crocs with socks look.

They also float, which I'm sure will come in handy one day...
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Old 17th October 2006, 10:32 PM   #19
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But sooo comfortable! Walk a mile in a pair of crocs and you'll see why people wear them, regardless of appearance. I sported a hot pink pair all summer, but no matter how comfy, I just can't bring myself to go for the crocs with socks look.

They also float, which I'm sure will come in handy one day...
LOL, they are way too rubbery and sweaty for me, viva las sandalías!





Anyway, at the beginning of this thread we were talking about racism in Spain. Is it really that bad compared to other countries, including Canada? I mean, how about Native Americans (First Nations) in Canada for instance, I remember the Oka crisis which started about sixteen years ago when Mohawks and French Canadians clashed in Québec... there were some ugly incidents over a golf course, including effigy-burning of 'Mohawks' by angry whites. Holland has got its share of racism - and a questionable colonial past - and so do other countries IMO. What else is new? In their New World colonies, the Spanish and Portuguese intermarried with natives and Africans, something which the Dutch and the British hardly ever did. It's true the colonies in Latin America were pigmentocracies too, but these rules were not as rigidly enforced as in the north. Spanish and Portuguese colonial societies in the New World were racist to be sure, but the infamous 'one-drop rule' never existed over there.

Last edited by Edith; 17th October 2006 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 12th November 2006, 11:39 AM   #20
Andy Woolley
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I watch football in Spain quite a lot and there is definitely more overt racism than in Britain. This has not been helped by some utterances by Luis Aragoneses the national team manager.

I support Tenerife and a few years ago we had two South African international players in our team who are black and they got some racist abuse even from the home fans. However, these days the main group of supporters the "Frente Blanquiazul" to which I belong proclaims itself proudly antifacist and antiracist unlike many of the "ultra groups" that exist at even the top clubs in Spain.

The first attached photo is of a large banner displayed at one of our home games. There are often other hand held ones like the one shown.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg no al racismo.jpg (56.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Una patada.jpg (102.6 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Andy Woolley; 12th November 2006 at 01:27 PM.
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